Time to update Electronics - B&G or Raymarine

[Caladh]

Thanks all for your help.

I went with the B&G in the end as I like the look of the UI more than the Raymarine offering. I've also gone with Navionics charts as we are used to them from the iPad. @Scala, I agree about the Garmin charts, thanks for your input on that

Force 4 were fantastic in talking through the options and for future expansion, and so I've left off AIS for now until I've saved up a bit more ( or maybe next month :encouragement: ).

I did see that the Axiom now had Netflix and Spotify, which TBH was a step too far LOL.

I'm looking forward to installing it all at the weekend, and getting my head around it, along with replacing the tiller that snapped as we were approaching the Deben last weekend... but that's another story!!!!

Netflix and Spotify - a new MOBO feature apparently.

 

[bedouin]

Talking of which - has anyone tried to use a Raymarine MFD as a display for Raspberry Pi?

 

[PaulRainbow]

I have to disagree with this. NMEA 0183 and Seatalk have little in common apart from being popular over around the same time, and (as a result of their age) operating at the same low baud rate.

The biggest difference is that Seatalk is a shared bus network whereas NMEA0183 is a point-to-point unidirectional link - this is pretty fundamental to how they can be used, not just a minor difference.

Seatalk carries binary data which is unreadable to the non-specialist, and even if read can only be partially understood by reference to Thomas Knauf's incomplete list of reverse-engineered message types. NMEA0183 carries sentences in readable ASCII text viewable by built-in Windows tools, and while the standard is technically not freely available, in practice all commonly-used sentences are well-documented and easily accessible.

I wasn't trying to write a book on marine networking, i was giving someone a basic idea of which system was which. Seatalk/Seatalk1 is Raymarines propriety version of nmea 0183, so for that basic description it fits well enough.

Working with Seatalk is simple, because it has the advantage of only one mainstream manufacturer (I'm discounting the assorted unlicensed hobbyist type kit). Just plug it in and it works.

Working with NMEA0183 regularly seems to trip up people who don't understand what the wires do and/or won't read manuals to find out which colour is what, so I guess objectively it's the "most difficult". For anyone with the most basic understanding of what a serial link is, though, it's easy to wire (at least, to know what should be connected where; of course you still have the gruntwork of running and splicing cables). Only a handful of sentences are commonly used on leisure vessels and they've been around for ever, so incompatibility at the software level is basically non-existent, at least for equipment made this century. Hardly "a minefield".

I said, "working with 0183 and Seatalk is a bit of a minefield. "

Note the inclusion of the word "and" At the time both were widely in use the internet was flooded with people having problem, no doubt those messages are still kicking around. There were all sorts of incompatibility issues in the early days, between Seatalk and 0183 and even between different 0183 equipment.

Like i said, it was just a basic overview of the different protocols, for the OP. Any wanting to know more, the internet is full of information, i don't need to add to it.

 

[prv]

i was giving someone a basic idea of which system was which. Seatalk/Seatalk1 is Raymarines propriety version of nmea 0183

But this is simply untrue. I'm not just being pedantic here - the two are entirely unrelated, and suggesting that one is a version of the other is only going to mislead people and lead them into difficulties.

I said, "working with 0183 and Seatalk is a bit of a minefield. "

Note the inclusion of the word "and" [...]There were all sorts of incompatibility issues in the early days, between Seatalk and 0183

Seatalk and 0183 not communicating with each other isn't an "incompatibility issue", at least not in the sense of something that should work but doesn't because of a minor difference. Imagine someone unplugged their landline telephone, soldered on a Belling-Lee connector in place of the BT jack, and then plugged it into the aerial socket behind their TV. Is that an "incompatibility issue" when they can't hear BBC1 in the earpiece? Yes, in a sense, the two instruments are not compatible, but it's clearly a ludicrous thing to do so nobody attempts it.

Trying to wire NMEA0183 and Seatalk together is no more likely to succeed, but someone who's been told that they're "basically the same" might reasonably attempt it, and experience nothing but frustration. So telling people things like that is purely harmful, even if inadvertently, and I can't let it go uncorrected.

Pete

 

[PaulRainbow]

But this is simply untrue. I'm not just being pedantic here - the two are entirely unrelated, and suggesting that one is a version of the other is only going to mislead people and lead them into difficulties.

Seatalk1 was Raymarines version of 0183, so for the OP to get an idea of the different protocols, that's close enough. They don't have to be compatible and no-one here is trying to connect anything up using ST and 0183.

The two were in use at the same time and people did try getting 0183 kit to work with ST plotters etc. They obviously used the various converters, but it was nonetheless a minefield.

It's no different to saying that the Norton Commando was Nortons answer to the Triumph Bonneville. Of course they were not identical, but they were similar and with some fiddling some bits interchanged. Sometimes.

Google will have a zillion examples of such.

I'm fully aware that you didn't just connect ST and 0183 together in the same way that you can connect STNG and N2K (using a suiable connector)

I was around when this stuff was in common use and i'm well aware of how it all worked.

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Not sure what you're talking about here. the i60 is a wind instrument, the i70 a multifunction display. The i70 has two STNG connectors, that's it. The Raymarine triducer is made by Airmar and outputs bog standard N2K data, i actually have one connected to an N2K network and it's displaying speed/water temp/STW on a pair of Garmin GMI10s.

What are these transducer of which you speak, that have bespoke connectors ?

Its the system that relies on http://www.raymarine.co.uk/view/?id=3338

Yes, the network side of it you can plug anything into anything and determine if its the cable, sender or receiver thats at fault.
But the connections to the sensors are all one off with zero chance of fault finding without proprietary information and specialist test kit. If spare equipment is not available, the only solution when there is a fault is to ship everything off to the supplier or manufacturer.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Its the system that relies on http://www.raymarine.co.uk/view/?id=3338


Yes, the network side of it you can plug anything into anything and determine if its the cable, sender or receiver thats at fault.
But the connections to the sensors are all one off with zero chance of fault finding without proprietary information and specialist test kit. If spare equipment is not available, the only solution when there is a fault is to ship everything off to the supplier or manufacturer.

Gotcha, but a modern system using i70 displays would be using N2K transducers etc. It's really simple then. The Airmar triducer with the devicenet connector fits anything N2K. I have a Raymarine labelled one connected to my N2K network, with Garmin displays.

 

[bedouin]

Gotcha, but a modern system using i70 displays would be using N2K transducers etc. It's really simple then. The Airmar triducer with the devicenet connector fits anything N2K. I have a Raymarine labelled one connected to my N2K network, with Garmin displays.

To be accurate you can also use analogue transducers with i70 - you just need another device to convert analogue to N2K - that might be an easier solution than running the NMEA backbone all over the boat and to the top of the mast