Time to respond to an EPIRB

[chanelyacht]

True, so the PLB would need to be operated by the MOB. But surely if you drop the EPIRB, then SAR will be looking for your boat, not a MOB.

No, with an EPIRB, especially if it is a float-free type, we will model for both - but will assume the event was catastrohic enough to be looking for PIWs as well as boat / wreckage.

 

[prv]

True, so the PLB would need to be operated by the MOB. But surely if you drop the EPIRB, then SAR will be looking for your boat, not a MOB.

But when the big orange boat or noisy flying thing heaves into view, I'm sure they will be listening to their VHF. So you can tell them what's going on.

Which all goes to show that you must not expect an immediate response to electronic emergency signals. They are primarily designed for finding ships in distress on the ocean and with an appropriate timescale, not for fishing swimmers out of the Solent before hypothermia sets in.

Agree that it's not really appropriate for MOB, though can't hurt I guess. Not sure about being only for ships; my idea of the classic EPIRB event is a yacht sinking well offshore (off the coast of South America, say, or in the middle of Biscay) and the crew taking to the liferaft to be rescued a day or two later. This is why my PLB (as a poor man's EPIRB) is in the grab bag. Certainly agree with your overall point that it's not an instant "beam me up, Scotty" device.

Relying on your domestic contact being available and by the phone when you fall over the side is dreamland.

This is why I wanted to find out from Chanelyacht what happens when the contact doesn't answer. I would hope (and he seems to confirm) that no answer from the shore contact doesn't mean no response.

Obviously I have specified a mobile rather than landline number. It's my mum I want the Coastguard to call, not her house.

The problem is when the two doppler positions have similar percentages, we have little choice but to wait for the resolved position.

Hopefully to become a thing of the past as GPS-equipped beacons take over. GPS chips must cost pennies in bulk, I don't know why anyone is still selling (or buying) non-GPS EPIRBs and PLBs.

Pete

 

[Tranona]

Agree that it's not really appropriate for MOB, though can't hurt I guess. Not sure about being only for ships; my idea of the classic EPIRB event is a yacht sinking well offshore (off the coast of South America, say, or in the middle of Biscay) and the crew taking to the liferaft to be rescued a day or two later. This is why my PLB (as a poor man's EPIRB) is in the grab bag. Certainly agree with your overall point that it's not an instant "beam me up, Scotty" device.

Last time I had a look at the record of EPIRB activations the majority were either land based (mostly remote areas) or aircraft. Marine were a minority and they were mostly of the type you describe, either out in the ocean or in parts of the world where there was no VHF coverage. Very few activations in North European or Mediterranean waters and of those most were commercial or fishing vessels.

So EPIRB of limited value to most leisure sailors in our part of the world, but potentially increasingly valuable the further offshore you venture.

Would be nice to know the type of alert used in various different incidents - for example, DSC, Voice VHF, mobile phone, observation etc but not sure anybody collects and collates this data.

 

[chanelyacht]

Would be nice to know the type of alert used in various different incidents - for example, DSC, Voice VHF, mobile phone, observation etc but not sure anybody collects and collates this data.

We collect it, as it is listed as part of the incident analysis.

What happens to it after we've done the job though is outside my knowledge...

 

[PhillM]

I seem to remember the CG66 asked where the boat was kept. I assumed that CG would call the marina to see if they knew where the boat was / was going to if they could not get a response (or sense) from my shore contact?

Swanwick (and I assume many others) like to know when you are away overnight so they can use the berth for visitors. I make a point of telling the office where I am going and when I expect to get there, just in case I dont and they get called to find out what my plans were.

 

[Talbot]

These days, rather than an EPIRB or a PLB, your manoverboard would be better of with an AIS locator like the Kannard safelink

This will be easier to find on you electronic navigator, and will also warn oncoming vessels .

 

[prv]

These days, rather than an EPIRB or a PLB, your manoverboard would be better of with an AIS locator like the Kannard safelink

+1 - AIS SART for man overboard, EPIRB (or PLB as a cheaper alternative) for a sinking boat.

Exception is man overboard from a singlehander, where you want a PLB and a lot of luck.

Pete

 

[Bilgediver]

I've put my mum as the contact, as the most likely person to know I'm on my way to the Channel Islands or whatever and not be on the boat. But she sails as well, albeit mostly pottering around the Solent, so it's not impossible that she might set off the PLB for which she is her own registered contact!

I might be mistaken, but I don't remember a facility to add more than one contact on the EPIRB registration site or paper form. Since the EPIRB registry update backlog seems to be currently running at a couple of months, we can't exactly change it to reflect who is on board for any given trip!

What happens if you ring a contact and get no answer?

Surely if the signal comes with a GPS position that is at sea, the owner (or at least his boat) is clearly out sailing? OK, it could still be a false alarm (guest fiddling with the funny thing on the bulkhead, someone slipping through the hatch and kicking it off its mount, etc) but the shore contact can't help you with those anyway.

Pete

Unfortunately this is not always the case especially with PLBs. They can be let off all over the place by towpath walkers Rock climbers, Mountaineers etc


Epirbs also go off for many reasons and one of our rigs off Israel once received a call from MRRC Falmouth. The master answered to be greeted with the question "You are afloat then?" The master guessed why they had called and turned around to see the EPIRB was sitting in its rack bleeping. The offending EPIRB was
dealt with and no helicopters deployed from Tel aviv. In this case a defective switch seal had allowed rain water to enter the unit which effectively switched it on.

If Channel Yacht were to confirm the ratio of false calls to actual you may understand the reason for the double checking.

 

[KellysEye]

We had an EPIRB and a Sat C terminal which has an emergency button that transmits immediately to Inmarsat your position and speed if any, thus quicker than an EPIB and would have been used first.

 

[Roberto]

The offending EPIRB was
dealt with and no helicopters deployed from Tel aviv.

The number of epirb alerts from Gaza or Ramallah must be huge then

 

[prv]

Epirbs also go off for many reasons and one of our rigs off Israel once received a call from MRRC Falmouth. The master answered to be greeted with the question "You are afloat then?" The master guessed why they had called and turned around to see the EPIRB was sitting in its rack bleeping.

Presumably, though, if nobody had picked up the phone then they would have done something?

I'm not saying the Coastguard shouldn't call emergency contacts, I'm querying what they do if they don't get an answer.

Pete

 

[DownWest]

Couple (or three ) years ago mate was going to join another friend at the canaries for a transat. The owner was single handing the first leg and got caught in severe weather off Morocco. After two bad wave hits damaged his coachroof, he popped his beacon. The Portuguese put up an Orion as soon as it was light and located him (non GPS EPIRB) and they tasked a passing tanker to take him off. Not sure how long after that was, but presumable well out of helio range, so quickest way.

 

[chanelyacht]

Presumably, though, if nobody had picked up the phone then they would have done something?

I'm not saying the Coastguard shouldn't call emergency contacts, I'm querying what they do if they don't get an answer.

Pete

I haven't got the exact details of false alert to real alert figures, but certainly the majority are false alerts.

PLBs are designed, and recognised, for land use as well as maritime - in some countries the same service handles both.

We would call shore contacts first - if we don't get an answer, we would continue to run the incident until we can identify a distress or not. Shore contacts are a help, but the lack of them won't make us stop the job.

 

[Bilgediver]

Presumably, though, if nobody had picked up the phone then they would have done something?

I'm not saying the Coastguard shouldn't call emergency contacts, I'm querying what they do if they don't get an answer.

Pete

Yep! However there is a good reason for these checks as otherwise the resources may waste time and money chasing shadows. Just make sure you give the register your details and keep them up to date. Also be selective about which service you activate ie is it necessary to pop an EPIRB for a MOB in the solent on a sunny day when a designated DSC call or other means may be just as effective.

 

[Seatrout]

After a discussion on here, a couple of years ago, regarding a solo sailor who went over the side and has never been recovered, I carry a PLB secured inside the cover of my auto inflate life jacket, since I do a lot of solo sailing.
If the worst happens, hopefully I may be rescued; if not, at least the SWIMBO will have a body to burn.

 

[prv]

Also be selective about which service you activate ie is it necessary to pop an EPIRB for a MOB in the solent on a sunny day when a designated DSC call or other means may be just as effective.

Not just unnecessary, but not even especially useful given the time it will take for the message to reach Solent Coastguard and be acted upon.

(A PLB for a singlehander is a different question.)

Pete

 

[Mark-1]

We would call shore contacts first - if we don't get an answer, we would continue to run the incident until we can identify a distress or not. Shore contacts are a help, but the lack of them won't make us stop the job.

Thanks for that ChannelYacht, can you clear up what "run the incident" means?

Imagine a case where a GPS EPIRB is activated at sea within range of Uk Helicopter or RNLI and there is little doubt about the position. Obviously you won't know if it's genuine or not and the contact wouldn't be able to tell you that anyway. Typically, will anything physical be done to retrieve the casualty before the contact has answered their phone?

 

[Bilgediver]

Thanks for that ChannelYacht, can you clear up what "run the incident" means?

Imagine a case where a GPS EPIRB is activated at sea within range of Uk Helicopter or RNLI and there is little doubt about the position. Obviously you won't know if it's genuine or not and the contact wouldn't be able to tell you that anyway. Typically, will anything physical be done to retrieve the casualty before the contact has answered their phone?

I might get as quick or quicker response from my wee boatie just using the DSC judging by recent incidents up here. The coastguard seem to have
a direct link to the mechanical Budgies!!!! People should not underestimate the powers of DSC as much as some dislike it.

 

[Uricanejack]

If interested in EPIRB
Check out the sinking of the Concordia. Not the cruise ship. The Sail Training Ship.
There is a T.S.B report on the event.
It was a few years ago. may have been done to death on forum long since

 

[prv]

Check out the sinking of the Concordia. Not the cruise ship. The Sail Training Ship.

Is that the one that sank off South America? I've sailed with a guy who was on her when she went down - sounded like a hell of an experience, a sudden disaster out of nowhere, but fortunately all were rescued unharmed.

I guess your point is that they were in the rafts for some time (couple of days I think he said?) before the Brazilian coastguard got it together to come and look for them. Supposedly (this from my watchmate who was on board; I haven't read any official report) it took some prodding from the ship's flag state (Canada?) for the Brazilians to do anything at all.

Pete