Tiller steering = Stiff neck

[johnalison]

Does anyone actually sit behind the wheel and drive it like a car?.

Although I think that some actually do, especially in boats with smaller wheels such as many Legends. What I meant applies both to tillers and wheels. Some people try to direct the boat continuously, perhaps micro-managing it would be the modern term. Experienced sailors apply a more or less steady pressure on the helm, making alterations by varying the pressure rather than moving the helm, wheel or tiller. There is a limit to what can be achieved, especially in a quartering sea, but not moving the helm is always something I aim for.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Does anyone actually sit behind the wheel and drive it like a car?

According to the advertisements, all modern yachts are sailed by a tanned bloke with expensive watch, linen shirt and those cut-of-just-below the knee trousers standing behind the wheel and beaming at a well tanned woman who will never float face down reclining on the foredeck. Safety lines, life jackets, cream of tomato soup and Fray Bentos pies never feature.

 

[Koeketiene]

With tiller steering , the body is facing sideways to the direction of travel , but the head , facing forwards ,is cranked at an angle of 90 degrees. As I age, my neck/back is starting to suffer.

When helming, I sit like this:

 

[TonyMS]

It was quite a big project, but my solution was to make 2 wheels with integral drums, mounted on either side of the cockpit, driving the tiller through a long continuos line of Kevlar string.

TonyMS

 

[TernVI]

According to the advertisements, all modern yachts are sailed by a tanned bloke with expensive watch, linen shirt and those cut-of-just-below the knee trousers standing behind the wheel and beaming at a well tanned woman who will never float face down reclining on the foredeck. Safety lines, life jackets, cream of tomato soup and Fray Bentos pies never feature.

Lot of modern yachts seem to have all the instruments placed so you have to sit/stand behind the wheel to see them.
I went on one at a boat show where I could sit and not see over the chartplotter or stand and not see over the pramhood.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It was quite a big project, but my solution was to make 2 wheels with integral drums, mounted on either side of the cockpit, driving the tiller through a long continuos line of Kevlar string.

We have a simpler version of the same thing for wet weather: four blocks and a rope which goes tiller - pushpit - stanchion - across companionway - stanchion - pushpit tiller, so one of us sits in the companioway, legs dangling down into the cabin and steers while reading a book propped up under teh sprayhood. It's quite civilised.

Lot of modern yachts seem to have all the instruments placed so you have to sit/stand behind the wheel to see them.

Most odd. How do people with blotters in front of the wheel do their planning?

 

[LONG_KEELER]

When helming, I sit like this:

Very good. Most of the body facing forward.

You also have the half cheek bottom position option . Using your picture say , your right cheek only is on the seat with your body much more in the middle of the cockpit. Probably unsustainable for long periods but full frontal.

There is also the half knee position, much favoured for berthing. Where , say the right knee only is on the seat , left leg supporting with left hand on the tiller and right hand on the guard wire . Much favoured for bellowing orders.

You could of course go for the full dossing option. Again, using your picture, both legs on the seat fully extended facing forward with extra back support leaning against the aft rail. Left handed on the tiller and probably the right hand supporting some liquid sustenance for balance. This probably only works for winds F2 and below.

Old gaffers seem to favour boats with a rudder about half the length of the ship where the only option for helming is in the standing position. Puritan values probably have something to do with this.

 

[Koeketiene]

There is also the half knee position, much favoured for berthing. Where , say the right knee only is on the seat , left leg supporting with left hand on the tiller and right hand on the guard wire . Much favoured for bellowing orders.

No-one to shout orders to - I sail solo most of the time

 

[Daydream believer]

No-one to shout orders to - I sail solo most of the time

So do I, but It does not stop me having a right old go when things go a bit awry

 

[RupertW]

Lot of modern yachts seem to have all the instruments placed so you have to sit/stand behind the wheel to see them.
I went on one at a boat show where I could sit and not see over the chartplotter or stand and not see over the pramhood.

That always seems mad to me. The only instruments by the wheel on our boat are the compass and the autohelm. Everything else (well there isn’t much else) is on the bulkheads at the front of the cockpit as we only use the wheel to go in and out of harbour - autohelm for everything else with the person on watch at the forward end of the cockpit by the winches to sail the boat as precisely or lazily as we choose. I much prefer having a set course and continuously tweaking the sails than stuck behind the helm staring at flapping or overtight sails.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

So do I, but It does not stop me having a right old go when things go a bit awry

I'm a fellow single hander (there ought to be a society for us).

Having read lots of accounts from lone RTW girdlers that it is not uncommon for Columbus , Francis Drake and the like stepping aboard and having long chats with them.

I think you have to do more than just a tide sail along our coastline or even the occasional trip to Ostend like what I do to experience this . I have though on more than a couple of occasions, woken up which I can only only describe afterwards as half asleep, believing absolutely that there is someone else aboard.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I too have experienced the neck stiffness, and it is a real problem for my wife. I really like the sheet-to-tiller steering idea mentioned above, especially for a smallish boat, and may try to set that up for longer passages. I would definitely consider a wind vane for a larger yacht. I think I would miss the feel of the vessel that you get through a tiller if I had a wheel, however.

I tried sheet to tiller and it didnt work for our old Westerly or our current LM27. You needs easy steerable boat and minimal friction. I prefer tiller but LM has both. Quite frankly a tiller pilot is simpler than setting up temperamental improvised windvanes. On the Westerly i used to sit on stern cabin roof - surrounded by rails - and steer with feet. No good in F8 mind you

 

[ProMariner]

A ladder tiller extension, or one of those comfy adjustable length spinlock ones with the oval handle, open up many different steering positions in the cockpit. I find moving around, and changing position often, helps keep the blood flowing everywhere when helming, and avoiding back and neck pain. A routine horizon sweep also helps keep the neck supple too.

 

[steve350]

One of the benefits of wheel steering is facing the direction you want to go.

With tiller steering , the body is facing sideways to the direction of travel , but the head , facing forwards ,is cranked at an angle of 90 degrees. As I age, my neck/back is starting to suffer.

I need to find a solution from the experience and wisdom that is abundant on these forums. Preferably by Tuesday of next week when I'm off again.

I have a built up area of around 9 miles sailing before I reach the open sea .

Any position becomes tiring eventually. I make a conscious effort to keep moving around; windward side, leeward side, legs forward on top of a cockpit locker etc. That seems to help delay the onset of any aches.

 

[Poignard]

Any position becomes tiring eventually. I make a conscious effort to keep moving around; windward side, leeward side, legs forward on top of a cockpit locker etc. That seems to help delay the onset of any aches.

Sciatica keeps me on the move!

 

[MADRIGAL]

No-one to shout orders to - I sail solo most of the time

The only problem with the half knee position is for old gaffers like me still in need of knee replacements! I used to do that on the cockpit side bench and found it a good relief for neck strain and good for keeping a lookout ahead, until my knees couldn’t bend that much anymore.

 

[Daydream believer]

I think you have to do more than just a tide sail along our coastline or even the occasional trip to Ostend like what I do to experience this . I have though on more than a couple of occasions, woken up which I can only only describe afterwards as half asleep, believing absolutely that there is someone else aboard.

Believe me, I have experienced some odd things when nodding off at the helm in fog. The mind plays all sorts of tricks. The shock wakes one up. It must be the brain giving a shot of adrenaline to keep one going. Trouble is that the shot only lasts for a short while & the cycle starts again. It is worse in fog because there is nothing to steer to, other than just a ring of numbers on the compass that float before one's eyes.. Fortunately my compass has grid lines. The concentration needed is just impossible.

One of the problems of getting a stiff neck is rotation. I was crossing the Black Deep diagonally in a NW direction on port tack in visibility of about 2.5-3 miles one day. I turned & looked over my left shoulder- all clear. Then repeated over my right. I did this from time to time. Trouble was that there was no reference point to tell me if I had looked through the full 360 degrees & with a stiff neck I clearly had not.
Suddenly I looked over my left shoulder & 3 boat lengths away to port was the bulbous bow, of a container ship approaching from the south. I immediately turned away & the ship missed me by less than 2 boats lengths. The ship had clearly not seen me & I had not seen it, because it had approached in the blind spot caused by my stiff neck.

Forumites have mentioned setting the autohelm & letting that do the work. For years I never had such a device. However, I find them pretty useless. I have just had to order a new ram for my Raymarine AV100 at a cost of £ 750-00 because the old one has burned out. This will effectively be my 6th tiller autopilot in 18 years.
Total pieces of junk whether Raymarine, or Simrad.

 

[Stemar]

Total pieces of junk whether Raymarine, or Simrad.

I've heard too many cases of problems to disagree with that, but my tiller pilot is invaluable, though Jissel's too twitchy under sail for it to manage unless conditions are kind. It does mean that I can leave the tiller to tend sails or have a good 360 look around. I've never had an experience like DB's Black Deep scare, and I don't want to!

I deal with fatigue on a long solo trip by having a good look round and setting a timer for 10 minutes. I can then snooze, get a cuppa, read or whatever until the alarm goes off. Good look round, rinse and repeat. The 10 minutes is based on my expectation to see a ship from at least 6 miles away, Even with a closing speed of 30 knots (unlikely these days), if I just miss one this time, it'll still be a mile or more away next time. This of course depends on decent visibility. If it isn't so good, reduce the time.

 

[Koeketiene]

The only problem with the half knee position is for old gaffers like me still in need of knee replacements! I used to do that on the cockpit side bench and found it a good relief for neck strain and good for keeping a lookout ahead, until my knees couldn’t bend that much anymore.

'Odd' that this should trouble your knees.
I've got arthritis of both knees and it doesn't seem to bother me too much.
What does cause pain is standing up for more than 5 minutes if the seastate is anything more than 'smooth'.
So I try to remain seated as much and as long as possible.
As for steering, 95% of the time I let the autopilot do the work. I only hand helm to leave the mooring and in crowded waters (be it other boats or rocks). Otherwise, once the sails are set, I'm just along for the ride - listening to music/podcasts with a drink to hand.