tiller pilot/self steer

Many thanks for the advise - I have now started shopping and found the ones recently sold on Ebay only a hundred or so less than new but in a visit to a local chandler his advise included the fact that several customers had purchased the Raymarine ST 1000 to save a few quid but had suffered a failure because it was not man enough, returned it under warranty and traded it for the ST2000, presumably for the price difference. Has anyone heard of this being done - if so I may as well buy the cheaper one in the knowledge that it wont cost me any more if and when I find I should have gone for the stronger model.
 
david100952 said:
I may as well buy the cheaper one in the knowledge that it wont cost me any more if and when I find I should have gone for the stronger model.
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Inevitably they go at the worst possible moment, but you seem to be used to doing without. I have to say that neither are very robust, although clearly the 2000 is stronger. In my (fairly extensive) experience, unless regularly pushed to their design limits, they most commonly fail because of the motherboard rotting through water ingress. (Worth taking the lid off an drying it each winter, even though this theoretically invalidates the warranty. And, having peeked inside, you'll see just how puny the mechanicals are.)
 
david100952 said:
Many thanks for the advise - I have now started shopping and found the ones recently sold on Ebay only a hundred or so less than new but in a visit to a local chandler his advise included the fact that several customers had purchased the Raymarine ST 1000 to save a few quid but had suffered a failure because it was not man enough, returned it under warranty and traded it for the ST2000, presumably for the price difference. Has anyone heard of this being done - if so I may as well buy the cheaper one in the knowledge that it wont cost me any more if and when I find I should have gone for the stronger model.
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Sounds a bit far-fetched Raymarine might have done it direct as a goodwill gesture, but don't think you should rely on it. Unlikely a warranty failure would be just because it was too small for the job.

The choice is really simple. If you have a lightweight easily balanced boat and are only looking for something to keep a course when motoring or in light airs then the ST 1000 will be OK. If, on the other hand you want to use it under a wider range of conditions then go for the larger model with more power and faster response times. All about expectations.
 
As I single-hand, doing about 2-3k nm a year an automatic pilot is essential. My current one has been in use for 18 years with regular maintenance.
If yours is a tiller-steered yacht the answer is fairly economical.
For a tiller-steered yacht the two main types are those all-in-one versions and those with separate control head, actuator and fluxgate compass. The all-in-one varieties always leak and require new PCBs on a regular basis. OK for occasional, fine-weather use but not for serious single handing.
If a wheel-steered yacht the only effective answer is direct actuator on the rudder quadrant - linear electric or hydraulic. The systems with a drum mounted on the wheel are, at best, Heath Robinson devices. They do need professional fitting and the hydraulic versions are power-hungry.
Having had both of the common manufacturers' models, I'd agree that Raymarine appear to have advantages over Simrad. However serious single-handed offshore racers would never consider either of those makers.
One word of warning, always go for the model which is a size above that which the marketing tell you they need.
 
Re Charles' final sentence, we have had a TP 30 for many years. It is the largest one they do, suitable for a far bigger boat than ours, assuming there are any with tillers these days. It has steered us for hundreds of hours with total reliability, motoring, sailing and under spinnaker. Recently we bought a used TP32 from the For Sale section as a backup but, other than testing, it remains unused by us.
 
bitbaltic said:
Look forward to giving it a go but it definitely won't underpin what we do.
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I think the answer is in the "we". For single- or short-handed coastal cruising they really make a difference, indeed my insurance company requires "self-steering gear" for single-handed sailing.
 
I used to have a raymarine unit with a compass readout which was very useful, now have a simrad and miss that functionality much easier when trying to steer a course in testing conditions
 
I have a Raymarine ST4000+ tiller pilot (plus a spare) on an integrated ST60 system with a nice chartplotter (34' 5T, spade rudder, well balanced yacht) - all Raymarine. I sail single handed, even with SWMBO on board and am geared-up for (almost) any conditions. It works very well on both bearing/course and wind angle. Beaut being fully integrated. Running by the lee it is not that flash (none are) - better to then sail to a bearing/wind angle rather than to a course. All other conditions as good as a human!
As said before if you are ever likely to get into "adverse conditions" (how can you guarantee that you won't?) then don't mess with anything that "might" be big enough - go straight to the model above what the sales-people say (they are trying to prove how good their gear is). On mine, all the electronics are undercover but the arm does need lubricating every few years.
Location of fluxgate compass is critical as are the size of cable (don't skimp) and battery condition/charging. Wouldn't be without one. Andrew
 
charles_reed said:
The all-in-one varieties always leak and require new PCBs on a regular basis. OK for occasional, fine-weather use but not for serious single handing.
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22k miles on my ST2000, all weather, all through the year, mostly single handed with the AP on. One mechanical failure in that time, repaired for nothing with a canibalized donation. Use a home made cover to keep it dry. No leaks. No PCB failures. But I'm probably not a serious single-hander or something.
 
Yes I agree an auto pilot can be a huge help and a a bit of fun.
However for a small boat and for emergencies. a long piece of bungee cord attached to each side of the gunwhale aligned to the end of the tiller with about 4 wraps of bungee around the tiller handle can do a lot for you. The tension of the bungee ie the length will need to be adjusted fiddled with. The wraps around the tiller handle are enough to maintain a grip but few enough for you to be able to forceably rotate the wraps to move the tiller off centre to adjust for weather helm etc.
You can do much the same thing with rope but the bungee has the advantage that when the boat drifts off course you just overpower the bungee to change heading. When you let go you still have the system at the same setting. ie hopefully holding a straight course. This sytem will give you time to grab things from cabin or adjust sails etc. good luck olewill
 
I used to have a raymarine unit with a compass readout which was very useful, now have a simrad and miss that functionality much easier when trying to steer a course in testing conditions


Oh! the dear old Mk II Autohelm - I had one on my 1st boat and noticed the immense improvement in navigation that resulted.
Nautech used to change the PCB for me while I waited!! Great service, all went for a ball of chalk when absorbed by Raytheon.
Nearly all the service staff, that I used to know then , have moved on, but they still regularly service the ST4000 actuators for me though the parts are no longer available. And not expensively!!!
With the Simrad TP, I found the software more comprehensive, (you could set sensitivity for seastate conditions) and the socket/pin was vastly better fit than the Raymarine - it used to chirp like a cricket and leak like a colander.
One of the major advantages of the separate fluxgate (mounted close to the boat's C of G) is that in seastate 5-6, the heading isn't constantly changing as the heads of the waves chuckle into the cockpit.
Downwind, under spinnaker, I've always found the Navik the most effective, but any wind pilot goes barmy if you surf the hull. A SE gale in Katakolo and a parting mooring line has resulted in the retirement, for straightening, of the Navik - in any case servo-wind pilots are only good for offshore work - never any use in the Med.
 
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William_H said:
Yes I agree an auto pilot can be a huge help and a a bit of fun.
However for a small boat and for emergencies. a long piece of bungee cord attached to each side of the gunwhale aligned to the end of the tiller with about 4 wraps of bungee around the tiller handle can do a lot for you. The tension of the bungee ie the length will need to be adjusted fiddled with. The wraps around the tiller handle are enough to maintain a grip but few enough for you to be able to forceably rotate the wraps to move the tiller off centre to adjust for weather helm etc.
You can do much the same thing with rope but the bungee has the advantage that when the boat drifts off course you just overpower the bungee to change heading. When you let go you still have the system at the same setting. ie hopefully holding a straight course. This sytem will give you time to grab things from cabin or adjust sails etc. good luck olewill
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Only for going to windward with non-overlap headsails, William. Slocum set up his own self-steer on "Spray" using his headsail sheets as a correction. Offwind it's useless.
 
Charles, with the ST4000+ one can still get the motors (at least in Aus - they come from China anyway) and the rest you can service yourself. The little plastic gears may be hard to source but I think they "upgraded" to metal ones for the GP model. Cheers, Andrew
 
Andrew G said:
Charles, with the ST4000+ one can still get the motors (at least in Aus - they come from China anyway) and the rest you can service yourself. The little plastic gears may be hard to source but I think they "upgraded" to metal ones for the GP model. Cheers, Andrew
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We've almost identical set-ups - main parts that seem to need replacing are brushes, leadscrew and seals. Before lubricating (which I do annually) always wash off the salt on the arm. Mine was one of the first 4000STs flown down by Raymarine to St Marys, after the ST2000 had expired for the 2nd time in 12 months. One, due to crew sitting on it, came apart in the middle.
I even had a fatigue fracture of the pin - bad design with a "hard" angle on the machining onto the knob.
 
charles_reed said:
in any case servo-wind pilots are only good for offshore work -
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Oh dear - you were doing ok until you wrote that
Totally misleading. I use mine as soon as the sails are up ( assuming enough wind)
Sets quicker than my simrad ( just hook the chain on & rotate the vane is quicker than plugging in turning on & setting course)
Sorry i disagree with you
What you have said just perpetuates a fallacy,
depending on your definition of "offshore" which for some is 100 yds from the marina
 
Daydream believer said:
Oh dear - you were doing ok until you wrote that
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Perhaps you should read Charles' whole sentence - not the bit you want to read! He qualified his statement by saying useless in the med. Exactly what other people have found - does not normally cope well with light fickle winds or when motorsailing - conditions which account for the majority of "sailing" in the Med. An interfaced autopilot earns its keep in these conditions. Different if you are sailing in open waters with significant and relatively predictable wind.

Think most coastal cruisers find the downsides of wind vanes are not offset by advantages.
 
charles_reed said:
servo-wind pilots are only good for offshore work - never any use in the Med.
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+1 with Daydream Believer.
Each to his own, but to make such a categorical statement is inane.

P.S. In the meantime Tranona posted along similar lines, if less dogmatically. He has a point to a degree but it still doesn't tally with my experience. All the long offshore passages I've done in the Med have been substantially under wind vane...although sometimes it's been a bit of a wait for the wind.
 
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My Moody 31 came with an ST1000, which turned out not to work. I replaced it with an ST2000 - the 1000 was definitely marginal for a 31 footer, and that's perhaps why it wasn't in working order! The St2000 copes fine with the Moody; however, I only use it intermittently under sail (as others have said, for loo breaks, making a sandwich or boiling a kettle!). Under engine, it is on nearly all the time - it does a better job of steering under engine that I do, and it doesn't get bored!

One thing that it is really handy for is keeping the boat head to wind witht he engine while setting or dropping sail. To my mind, that capability makes a real difference when single-handed.

The ST2000 has one big advantage when used with other Raymarine kit - it integrates with the system very well.
 
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