Tiller Auto pilots

Javelin

Javelin

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I'm on the search for a tiller auto pilot.
I've actually got a ST2000+ and an older 2000 as a spare.
However I've never been totally happy with them, especially with quartering sea.
Not having a quadrant and no intention of cutting the boat about to fit one I'm stuck with a cockpit tiller arm of some sort.
I've looked at the Simrad tp's but they're pretty much the same as the ST's

So I decided to look further and found the BoschAP tiller wand which looks promising but at the same time it looks like its still in development.
The other one I found was the Jefa linear drive from Denmark which looks even better.
Has anyone had any experience of either of the above?

Anyone seen any others that are worth a look?
 
Javelin said:
So I decided to look further and found the BoschAP tiller wand which looks promising but at the same time it looks like its still in development.
The other one I found was the Jefa linear drive from Denmark which looks even better.
Has anyone had any experience of either of the above?

Anyone seen any others that are worth a look?
Click to expand...

I've not heard of the Bosch tiller wand - any link to it? The Jefa linear drive is intended for below-deck mounting.

There is the Raymarine EV-100 Tiller Pilot, which is built to cope with boats up to 6000kg (versus 4500kg for the ST2000) so may be rather more robust.
 
The ST 2000 is underpowered for your boat under sail, although probably fine for calm weather motoring. As suggested the EV-100 which is the modern version of the ST4000 tiller pilot is the only thing on the market that will cope. Much more sophisticated and robust than the smaller types. Inevitably more than twice the price.
 
Javelin said:
I'm on the search for a tiller auto pilot.
I've actually got a ST2000+ and an older 2000 as a spare.
However I've never been totally happy with them, especially with quartering sea.
Not having a quadrant and no intention of cutting the boat about to fit one I'm stuck with a cockpit tiller arm of some sort.
Click to expand...

Steering problems in biggish quartering seas are either due to lack of power in the system or a lack of sophistication in the AP hardware and software. FWIW it's not uncommon to see boats with big powerful linear drive systems making a complete hash of quartering seas. One can improve things a bit by fiddling with the gain, which is always worth a try.

However truly good steering in such conditions requires an AP which responds to the boat's angle of heel as well as its heading, and that requires a proper gyro setup which will cost £8k+ for a good one. Such a system will radically reduce power consumption as well as steering much better in big seas. Prob only worth the dosh if doing long short handed passages offshore.
 
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pvb said:
I've not heard of the Bosch tiller wand - any link to it? The Jefa linear drive is intended for below-deck mounting.

There is the Raymarine EV-100 Tiller Pilot, which is built to cope with boats up to 6000kg (versus 4500kg for the ST2000) so may be rather more robust.
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I have one fitted this year to a Hanse 312
Very disappointed. In a 2 metre quartering sea in 20kts of wind my boat always wants to round up.
If it goes 90 degrees off course the control shuts down and the compass needs re setting. This happens even of compass lock is on
Last friday on route from l havre to cherbourg the ram got hot & the unit could not cope
I also have an Aeries which in light following wind is not too good. However in the higher winds it easily outperformed the raymarine autopilot on all points of sailing
I also have the st2000 which is pretty useless as well- has been back for repair twice in 1st year
Rather than waste money on expensive electric stuff geT a wnd steering system & a cheap autopilot for motoring & light winds
 
dom said:
However truly good steering in [quartering seas] requires an AP which responds to the boat's angle of heel as well as its heading, and that requires a proper gyro setup which will cost £8k+ for a good one.
Click to expand...
Can you suggest any brands or models?

I can't say I can afford that, but you've piqued my curiosity.

EDIT: ignore this, curiosity sated.
 
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So given the NKE Gyropilot is 5K + (plus I don't see an external cockpit tiller solution for a 34' yacht)
it appears the only other viable electronic solution is the Raymarine Evolution tiller pilot which will still cost me 1k.
Plus the raymarine is nmea 2000 so I'd need to convert it to 0183 so it can talk to my other gear.

I actually have access to a Windpilot PacificPlus http://windpilot.com/n/wind/en/prod/paci/
However I'm not keen on having another rudder permanently sticking out the back.
Would be fine crossing an ocean or from here to the med but cruising the East coast interspersed with jumps accross to Belgium/Holland, would make it a bit OTT.

From the electrical side it looks like there's a bit of a gap in the market.

Oh and the link to the Tillerwand is http://pelagicautopilot.com/tiller-wand-testing-underway/
 
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Filgood said:
Strolls: Nke perhaps ?
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Thanks. I just saw your reply having returned from spending the last 90 minutes Googling autohelms and reading previous threads.

In one the B&G H5000 series was mentioned - weirdly my curiosity was totally satisfied when I discovered their €3500 Gyro Stabilised Compass.
 
Yes my guess is the linear drive is a BoschAP sourced item linked to their Gyro controller

Have done some more digging and reading on this Pelagic offering and on face value it looks to be very good value and given the abeit limited testimonials, it seems to work.
 
Javelin said:
From the electrical side it looks like there's a bit of a gap in the market.

Oh and the link to the Tillerwand is http://pelagicautopilot.com/tiller-wand-testing-underway/
Click to expand...
Don't think the tiller-wand is a serious autopilot drive. Its maximum thrust is only 90 lbs - far less than even an ST1000. Think it is intended to drive a windvane gear for motoring, which the ST 1000 is often used for.

As to a gap in the market. Over the years various manufacturers have tried to fill this "gap" - but with only limited success sales wise. The reality is that there are virtually no tiller steered boat built now with displacements above about 3500kgs. So the ST 2000 covers most of the market and many older boats up to around 30'. The ST 4000 has always been a slow seller, simply because the number of boats (mostly now "old") that need it is relatively small and many will already be equipped.

The market now is for wheel steered boats where Raymarine used to dominate, but now Garmin and B&G have joined the fray, the latter 2 being particularly active in the OE market - for example Bavaria fit Garmin, Hanse, Beneteau and Jeanneau fit B&G. The integrated packages from either of these two are very competitively priced and have taken big market share from Raymarine.
 
Don't think the tiller-wand is a serious autopilot drive. Its maximum thrust is only 90 lbs - far less than even an ST1000. Think it is intended to drive a windvane gear for motoring, which the ST 1000 is often used for.
Click to expand...

Quite right, sorry miss read that fact, bummer.

Agree that the wheel seems to have taken over on new boats 32' + however there's a hell of a lot of existing tiller yachts out there who regularly wear out their ST2000 and find it difficult to justify a Ray,Gar,B&G higher end setup.
 
Javelin said:
Quite right, sorry miss read that fact, bummer.

Agree that the wheel seems to have taken over on new boats 32' + however there's a hell of a lot of existing tiller yachts out there who regularly wear out their ST2000 and find it difficult to justify a Ray,Gar,B&G higher end setup.
Click to expand...

Then the EVO 100 is the one to have! Exactly what it is designed for. It is half the cost of an equivalent wheel steer pilot (ignoring the less than satisfactory wheel pilot type). So actually the market is very well served by a product that has proved itself over many years. You get both the more powerful ram and the latest in software. Not surprising that the competitors don't bother entering this very limited (in the scheme of things) market.
 
Tranona said:
Then the EVO 100 is the one to have! Exactly what it is designed for. It is half the cost of an equivalent wheel steer pilot (ignoring the less than satisfactory wheel pilot type). So actually the market is very well served by a product that has proved itself over many years. You get both the more powerful ram and the latest in software. Not surprising that the competitors don't bother entering this very limited (in the scheme of things) market.
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I've decided the same. If I want to have a tiller pilot for a 34' yacht then the only option is the Raymarine one. However at the moment I'm not committed enough to spend the £1k it'll cost. If you decide to go ahead, keen to hear your thoughts on whether it was worth it. Until then I'll stick with hand steering everywhere!
 
Strolls said:
Thanks. I just saw your reply having returned from spending the last 90 minutes Googling autohelms and reading previous threads.

In one the B&G H5000 series was mentioned - weirdly my curiosity was totally satisfied when I discovered their €3500 Gyro Stabilised Compass.
Click to expand...

Sorry missed your original question. Yes B&G do good stuff, but the market leaders are probably NKE. Do remember that lots of integrated and pricey bits of pieces comprise an AP system including the processor; take a look here: http://www.nke-marine-electronics.com/nke-instruments/autopilot/

All in an AP installation like this will set you back £10K+ and may be way overspecced for what you want. Some of these systems are explicitly designed to run fast planing boats downhill in big winds pretty close to what a good helmsman could achieve.
 
Javelin, there is a good solution for larger tiller steered yachts, though for some reason it's rarely publicised -- the Octopus RS drive: http://www.octopusdrives.com/products/type-rs-drive

We've used one on Zest (36ft and 5,000kg displacement) for 10,000 miles, including a trip to the Azores and racing Round Britain last summer and have been very pleased. As far as I know it can be used with any pilot computer.

The connection from the motor to the tiller is via a bowden cable, with a clutch on the motor that automatically disengages when you change to standby mode.

If it helps I can give you more info and photos
 
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