mick
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember reading somewhere that it's not possible to overtighten standing rigging using ordinary hand tools. Is this true? I want my backstay as tight as possible to make the boat sail properly to windward.
Tight backstay?
- Thread starter mick
- Start date
roly_voya
Well-Known Member
No I think the rule you are thinking of is that its not possibel to overtighten BY HAND that is just gripping the bottle screw. Using a spanner and a sccrwedriver through the bottle screw you definately can overtighten.
30boat
N/A
I read that once but it just doesn't make sense.
DJE
Well-Known Member
Get a backstay tensioner. You'll want the stay tight on windy days to flatten the genoa and looser on light days to make it a bit fuller. With a tensioner it will be easy to adjust the stay while sailing and to check the effect on forestay sag and genoa shape. You'll also be able to slacken the stay off a bit every time you leave the boat to reduce the strain on the hull. Bottle screws aren't good for regular adjustments. There's some advice on setting up the rig here.
PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
It's very difficult to tighten at all by 'hand'! You must use a spanner / screwdriver to get it anywhere near tight enough. I certainly tighten as hard as I can with two screwdrivers, one to rotate the centre part and the second to hold the wire part stationary. I don't believe you can overtighten like this. If you have something like a hydraulic or wheel backstay tightener then you probably can. It also helps a lot if you lubricate the threads with lanolin or petroleum jelly. This on a Moody 33. Even so the leeward shrouds are still a bit slack when hard on the wind.
roly_voya
Well-Known Member
Never said this would get the rig tight enough for sailing just that it garentees no damage! Once you use a spanner you need either a tension gauge or judgement because you can overtighten with some spanners on some boats!
VicS
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Even so the leeward shrouds are still a bit slack when hard on the wind.
[/ QUOTE ] So they should be. At least if its a mast head rig they should just go slack when sailing to windward in say a force 3 when the angle of heel reaches 15 to 20°. If they are still tight at 20° they are too tight.
There is a lot of useful advice on tensioning the rig in the Selden Masts Hints and Advice manual Download from here
Even so the leeward shrouds are still a bit slack when hard on the wind.
[/ QUOTE ] So they should be. At least if its a mast head rig they should just go slack when sailing to windward in say a force 3 when the angle of heel reaches 15 to 20°. If they are still tight at 20° they are too tight.
There is a lot of useful advice on tensioning the rig in the Selden Masts Hints and Advice manual Download from here
William_H
Well-Known Member
I second the suggestion that you have adjustable backstay.
I am guessing that you have a mast head rig. If the backstay splits to a Y shape above the transom then the easy adjustment method is to make a pair of pulleys between plates that can be pulled down the Y shape to pull the legs together. Pull it down with a small tackle.
However just increasing the backstay tension may not solve your disappointment at windward performance. A tight backstay gives a tight forestay which can minimise forestay sag which can minimise the extra camber added to the jib by sag.
Everything must be right for good windward performance. This means the jib must have the right amount of camber for the wind strength. An old stretched jib will fail here. The sheeting point must be correct to get the top working as well as the bottom. ie equal point of luffing. Also ensure correc adequate jib luff (halyard) tension.
And of course the boat must have a well designed keel and a clean bottom.
You can't expect to perform to windward as well with a roll up jib as you can with having the correct sized and shaped jib on.
good luck olewill
I am guessing that you have a mast head rig. If the backstay splits to a Y shape above the transom then the easy adjustment method is to make a pair of pulleys between plates that can be pulled down the Y shape to pull the legs together. Pull it down with a small tackle.
However just increasing the backstay tension may not solve your disappointment at windward performance. A tight backstay gives a tight forestay which can minimise forestay sag which can minimise the extra camber added to the jib by sag.
Everything must be right for good windward performance. This means the jib must have the right amount of camber for the wind strength. An old stretched jib will fail here. The sheeting point must be correct to get the top working as well as the bottom. ie equal point of luffing. Also ensure correc adequate jib luff (halyard) tension.
And of course the boat must have a well designed keel and a clean bottom.
You can't expect to perform to windward as well with a roll up jib as you can with having the correct sized and shaped jib on.
good luck olewill
Salty John
Well-Known Member
The problem is defining 'slack'. The tension should come off the leeward shrouds when hard on the wind, but they shouldn't 'hang loose'. If they flop around they are too loose and will snap tight when you tack, putting a shock load on the wire and fittings.
lw395
Well-Known Member
It varies with the rig, but many rig failures are due to too little tension! When there is significant slack in the lee shroud, the spreader ceases to hold the mast in column for one thing.
Best way to tighten shrouds is to sail on a beat then adjust the lee shrouds. I use an anti seize grease on the bottlescrew threads. trying to tighten them under load can cause thread galling/coldwelding!!!
How much tension is up to you, the selden website advice is good, as is Ivor Dedekham's (sp?) little book about rig tuning. Fernhurst I think, can't see it on my shelf right now.
Whether its possible to overtighten with handtools is a bit vague, I imagine some people on this forum have 5mm shrouds, and some 10mm... any advance on 10? And some have bigger spanners than others!
Hope that helps?
Best way to tighten shrouds is to sail on a beat then adjust the lee shrouds. I use an anti seize grease on the bottlescrew threads. trying to tighten them under load can cause thread galling/coldwelding!!!
How much tension is up to you, the selden website advice is good, as is Ivor Dedekham's (sp?) little book about rig tuning. Fernhurst I think, can't see it on my shelf right now.
Whether its possible to overtighten with handtools is a bit vague, I imagine some people on this forum have 5mm shrouds, and some 10mm... any advance on 10? And some have bigger spanners than others!
Hope that helps?
saltwater_gypsy
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Quote:: "I want my backstay as tight as possible to make the boat sail properly to windward"
This is just one aspect of sailing effectively to windward.
I have seen several boats with overtightened rigging and if the mast is deck stepped you have to be very careful. Sigma33 's were particularly prone to "dishing" of the deck at the mast heel as were Pandoras and many others.
I would suggest that you make backstay adjustments progressively until the sag in the forestay reduces to an acceptable level. Sailmakers often cut the sail to accommodate forestay sag (eg Sonatas) so don't be over-enthusiastic!!
This is just one aspect of sailing effectively to windward.
I have seen several boats with overtightened rigging and if the mast is deck stepped you have to be very careful. Sigma33 's were particularly prone to "dishing" of the deck at the mast heel as were Pandoras and many others.
I would suggest that you make backstay adjustments progressively until the sag in the forestay reduces to an acceptable level. Sailmakers often cut the sail to accommodate forestay sag (eg Sonatas) so don't be over-enthusiastic!!
