Tide Tactics Orwell to Vlissingen?

John_Silver

John_Silver

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Location
St Mary's Island
allatseawithstargazer.blogspot.com
Moved boat and house from Poole to Medway last season.

Fancy following the 'We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea' route from Harwich to Vlissingen this summer.

Trying to work out what time to be off S corner of Thornton Bank Wind farm in order to carry the full flood into the Westerschelde. North Sea Passage Pilot says flood runs HW Dover -3 to +3 in the text. My Admiralty Tide Atlas, the tide charts in North Sea Pilot and Reeds seem to show more like HWD -1 to +5. Anyone got experience of what the reality is?
 
From memory we leave at HW Harwich (or thereabouts - all my info is on the boat). We usually aim for Breskens as you can get in at any time and plenty of room. Vlissingen is often full up so Breskens is much easier and we then go into the inland waterways next day. Others will be on soon with more info.
 
You haven't said what your passage planning speed is.. It's about 90 miles from Harwich to the Westerschelde so eg 18 hours at 5kts. Tide runs into Westerschelde from Dover HW-1 (have always found the imray tidal atlas accurate in the southern N sea). I'd be tempted to...
1. Run the shorter route (75 miles) into Oostende - easy passage. Then run up the coast on the tide the next day.
2. Leave Harwich at HW Dover -3 (check my mental maths) and allow for the extra hours of tidal push to make sure you end up the right side of the estuary.
3. Agree Breskens is a better bet at the end of a long passage than Vlissingen. You don't have to negotiate a ship lock and squeeze into a tight corner of an (admittedly friendly) marina. If you want to get up to Middleburg on the same run remember the bridges stop opening at 9pm from memory; so allow for that time too.
 
Thank you both!

Note taken of Breskens landfall recommendation.

I passage plan on 5 knots, so it's probably a 20-22 hour passage for Stargazer, allowing for leaving an up river mooring on the Orwell and the breeze dropping off a bit overnight. A simple landfall would be a big advantage - there's a lot more ship dodging and navigation to do than I've been used to crossing from Scilly to Ireland or Dartmouth to L'Aber Wrac'h!

As you say, from a pure chartwork point of view Oostende seems the logical route, it was the Red Diesel factor that was putting me off.....
 
John_Silver said:
Thank you both!

Note taken of Breskens landfall recommendation.

I passage plan on 5 knots, so it's probably a 20-22 hour passage for Stargazer, allowing for leaving an up river mooring on the Orwell and the breeze dropping off a bit overnight. A simple landfall would be a big advantage - there's a lot more ship dodging and navigation to do than I've been used to crossing from Scilly to Ireland or Dartmouth to L'Aber Wrac'h!

As you say, from a pure chartwork point of view Oostende seems the logical route, it was the Red Diesel factor that was putting me off.....
Click to expand...
Drop down the Orwell the night before, for an early start + save an hr on the passage. Dont worry about red, have some white in a can, this will show good intent. Oostende 73 mls from Landguard By. check the tides before deciding which way to go around the Cork Sd, if you go towards the Medusa keep west of S Cork its very shallow inside it
 
sailorman said:
Drop down the Orwell the night before, for an early start + save an hr on the passage. Dont worry about red, have some white in a can, this will show good intent. Oostende 73 mls from Landguard By. check the tides before deciding which way to go around the Cork Sd, if you go towards the Medusa keep west of S Cork its very shallow inside it
Click to expand...

....Now you mention it.....that does sound a very tempting proposition. Plenty of options and not too tide critical, which would make the passage far more relaxing. Sound advice!
 
John_Silver said:
....Now you mention it.....that does sound a very tempting proposition. Plenty of options and not too tide critical, which would make the passage far more relaxing. Sound advice!
Click to expand...

Not tide critical at all if Belgium bound with all weather hbrs too.
Get to LSH ( longsand hd ) then steer compass course after working out the vector offsets
 
Courtesy of the ANWB I have a quite detailed tide atlas for this bit of the North Sea. I will happily invade their copyright and turn it into a pdf. Just the thing is on the boat & I will not be there before the weekend.

p.m. if you'd like a copy.

Are you going into Vlissingen or into the canal? Access is different, I think. You could try Terneuzen across the river and take a mooring there. If the board is green then you can use a mooring, may have a return date chalked on it.
But make your peace with the HM. Need coins for the shower though.

blijf geduldig jongens!
 
Gwylan said:
Courtesy of the ANWB I have a quite detailed tide atlas for this bit of the North Sea. I will happily invade their copyright and turn it into a pdf. Just the thing is on the boat & I will not be there before the weekend.

p.m. if you'd like a copy.

Are you going into Vlissingen or into the canal? Access is different, I think. You could try Terneuzen across the river and take a mooring there. If the board is green then you can use a mooring, may have a return date chalked on it.
But make your peace with the HM. Need coins for the shower though.

blijf geduldig jongens!
Click to expand...

Also Dutch & Belgian electronic charts ( run on a lappi ) are a free download on the open cpn site

http://opencpn.org
 
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Well that's next weekend taken care of: Imray southern north sea chart on the saloon table, downloads on the lap top, tidal atlas in hand, much drinking of coffee and (eventually) some waypoints tapped into the plotter.

You've just put me together an enticing fortnight's cruise: Up to the Orwell (for old times sake - sailed out of Woolverstone '99 to '04), over to Oostende (new territory!), into the Westerschelde for a nose around and then home again via Dunkers (not scenic - I know from the passage up from Poole - but handy!) and Ramsgate. Looking forward to exploring a new cruising ground.

Appreciate the tips. See you on the water!
 
John_Silver said:
Well that's next weekend taken care of: Imray southern north sea chart on the saloon table, downloads on the lap top, tidal atlas in hand, much drinking of coffee and (eventually) some waypoints tapped into the plotter.

You've just put me together an enticing fortnight's cruise: Up to the Orwell (for old times sake - sailed out of Woolverstone '99 to '04), over to Oostende (new territory!), into the Westerschelde for a nose around and then home again via Dunkers (not scenic - I know from the passage up from Poole - but handy!) and Ramsgate. Looking forward to exploring a new cruising ground.

Appreciate the tips. See you on the water!
Click to expand...

http://www.dacust.com/inlandwaters/
 
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Getting into the Westerschelde river if you missed the tide can turn out to be a long slog, even if you only want to go to Breskens.
A new marina has opened in Cadzand, a small village East of Zeebrugge. It is inside the Netherlands (if only by a mile or so), and is run by the Belgian R.Y.C.B. It seems to me useful place to catch the tide going East. Blankenberge is a bit tricky in a blow at low tide, and entering/leaving Zeebrugge takes sometimes more than an hour.
It opened just last month, so I can't offer you any sort of experience...
http://www.rycb.be/jachthaven-cadzand/
The two sites are useful to get up-to-date info (Dutch only, however):
https://www.nautin.nl/
http://www.escaut.nl/
(also has the latest ENC charts)
 
thalassa said:
Getting into the Westerschelde river if you missed the tide can turn out to be a long slog, even if you only want to go to Breskens.
A new marina has opened in Cadzand, a small village East of Zeebrugge. It is inside the Netherlands (if only by a mile or so), and is run by the Belgian R.Y.C.B. It seems to me useful place to catch the tide going East. Blankenberge is a bit tricky in a blow at low tide, and entering/leaving Zeebrugge takes sometimes more than an hour.
It opened just last month, so I can't offer you any sort of experience...
http://www.rycb.be/jachthaven-cadzand/
The two sites are useful to get up-to-date info (Dutch only, however):
https://www.nautin.nl/
http://www.escaut.nl/
(also has the latest ENC charts)
Click to expand...

Hi Willy
i might give Cadzand a visit
 
Bear with me! The only paper chart I've got by me at home tonight is an old (pre wind farms!) passage chart. At that scale Cadzand is just an X.

Navionics shows the new marina - which could be handy if the outer breakwater has been added / modified as (further south) at St Cast or Morlaix.
 
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Certainly looks quite different to the current image on Google Earth. I had never even noticed the canal entrance before when passing that way.
 
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