Tidal Thames - vhf procedure for person in river

[Outinthedinghy]

I have ch14 on 24/7 on the London boat. When the is a PanPan it is usually VTS who announce it.

I suspect the protocol is call VTS Landline using your mobile and let them put the message out on 14 with their extra powerful transmitting equipment.

Seems more reliable given there are various signal deadspots for an ordinary VHF set.

If it is an emergency then maybe 999 is best.

 

[snowbird30ds]

Red button first and voice call, then everyone around with DSC is automatically on CH16 with coords and if linked to a plotter they can see the position for themselves.
VTS will be doing dual watch anyway.

 

[Outinthedinghy]

I suppose you have to also consider that "person in the water" may not always be an emergency.

I know swimming in the tidal River is a bit idiotic but people will do it.

If it is involuntary immersion then it seems sensible to concentrate on getting them out.

One does wonder how it works if someone is out swimming and gets reported as an emergency.

We had swimmers mid winter on red board conditions up near Henley regularly last year. Some people really like it.

 

[Time Out]

Regular swimmers just upstream of Tedd weir (yup and I’m talking 300- 500ft) in all conditions and temperatures.

In fact Chiswick RNLI sent out in false alarm today. Their Twitter feed did mention ‘with good intention’ which usually means someone is ‘trapped’ the tide. If that’s even a thing ….

 

[Capt Popeye]

Well reading all the posts about this subject has been an eye opener for me ; Things have certainly changed a lot ; Many years ago the M et Police Patrolled the Thames as far up as about Chiswick I understand ; they were most often alerted to an emergency by the Caller dialing 999 , as the caller was on dry land , poss having observed someone jumping /falling from a bridge etc ; or seeing a boat /vessel in trouble ; in these circumstances the caller was able to give location by way of Bridges , etc ; so giving location plus hopefully also which side of the river ; So I assume that the RNLI opertate as the first responder on most of the Tidal Thames ; so if the RNLI get their information from the Coast Guard , are the Inshore CG also listening in to 999 or will /does the Police notify the CG ?

Personally I can see nor good reason for the caller to give out the Lat Long as a location when up any river bordered by secure river banks , when on shore building etc are a more evident location , especially if responder is shore based person when not having a method to report the Lat Long

Very interesting post , thank you

 

[TwoFish]

they were most often alerted to an emergency by the Caller dialing 999 , as the caller was on dry land , poss having observed someone jumping /falling from a bridge etc ; or seeing a boat /vessel in trouble ; in these circumstances the caller was able to give location by way of Bridges , etc ; so giving location plus hopefully also which side of the river

No major change there at least. That's how it still tends to work.

So I assume that the RNLI opertate as the first responder on most of the Tidal Thames ; so if the RNLI get their information from the Coast Guard , are the Inshore CG also listening in to 999 or will /does the Police notify the CG ?

Personally I can see nor good reason for the caller to give out the Lat Long as a location when up any river bordered by secure river banks , when on shore building etc are a more evident location , especially if responder is shore based person when not having a method to report the Lat Long

There's now a huge 'alphabet soup' of agencies which may be responding, depending on the circumstances: HMCG, RNLI, LAS, LFB, MPS, MPU, HART, HEMS, NPAS, VTS and probably more. The good news is that they coordinate reasonably effectively, normally using the emergency services 'Airwave' radio network. Once contact has been made with the Coastguard, they will coordinate the response accordingly. And if someone does insist in using Lat & Long, they can translate that into a location all the other agencies will be able to use.

And yes, 999 will get you through to (normally) London Coastguard. Occasionally other Coastguard centres may stand in according to demand / resource, but they still know what they're doing.

 

[Time Out]

As an aside, my ongoing issue is that of the RNLI (Thames only and not Tower) as mentioned here, many years ago we had patrols by the Met Police (up to Hampton) as well as two or three TWA boats, both acting as 'rescue boats' as and when.

These have effectively been replaced by the RNLI that get called out at the drop of a hat, dogs in the water, a million vulnerable people allegedly seen by the river (not in) and then stood down, people 'trapped' by the tide, the best one where someone had to stand on a park bench on the towpath due to a spring tide, never in danger.

Anyhow my point is they are hardly ever called for a true rescue (thank God) but are so often called out for meaningless calls that could either be dealt with by land-based fire, police and ambulance.

But my biggest issue is the fact they are a CHARITY!!! so every launch costs money and that money often comes from an OAP standing in the cold and wet shaking their tin.

Teddington RNLI is not called Teddington Boat Club for nothing....!

Sorry, fred drift but it annoys me every time I see a poor old lady collecting knowing that a good part of that cash is wasted on unnecessary launches.

 

[TwoFish]

The cost of the lifeboat station is largely the cost of it being there. The marginal cost of a launch is presumably little more than the cost of the fuel for (normally) a fairly short trip. Even if you do view helping / looking out for a vulnerable person as "meaningless", it seems quite a stretch to suggest that such call-outs are consuming significant amouts of charity funds.

 

[Time Out]

Some background, I lived above Teddington station for two years (literally) and my boat is nearby. Don't get me wrong, they are there for a reason and in years gone by carried out significant rescues resulting in the saving of more than one life.

There is no question they are being called out more for what appears to be pointless launches particularly when land-based authorities could help and assist quicker and with better access. I've long maintained they could actually get to some incidents quicker by bike!

My main grumble is that a charity is now taking the place of tax-funded / government authorities.

I have first-hand experience witnessing countless wasted launches but if you question it, it's deemed 'good practice.

As I have already mentioned, they are there for a reason and I fully support that (financially too) but they should not be treated as if they are the police.

 

[The Q]

It's just as bad on the broads, A guy fell in off a boat on the river not 30ft from the bank, where you could walk up someone's slipway onto their quay and get picked up from there..
Someone on a passing boat called out the cavalry ..

Our sailing club car park is an emergency meeting point.
Two fire engines, a fire truck (box bodied lorry), the fire chief in a car, the police , the Coastguard and the independent inshore lifeboat..
By the time they were afloat.. they guy had been pulled out anyway....

and here's another oddity.. the ambulance crews are not allowed to get onto a boat.. they have to be recused to shore before they take over..
We had a lady hit by a falling mast, she had a broken jaw and serious concussion... The Ambulance crew refused to go on board and wanted the inshore lifeboat called out to a motorboat moored to the bank, So a club member picked her up and carried her to the ambulance..

 

[TwoFish]

and here's another oddity.. the ambulance crews are not allowed to get onto a boat..

Indeed. Without getting into the respective policies of various agencies, quite a few of them strictly forbid their personnel to enter the water, go afloat or even operate near water. Hence the need to involve a service which specialises in exactly that. Some may dispute whether such policies are sensible, but that's a very different thing from getting them changed.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Wellall very interesting a discussion indeed ; thank you all ; might mention that in my time afloat in Thames Division I do not recall the Coast Guard or the RNLI being involved in 'shouts' at all ; all and every 'shout' was attended by the Thames Division , (from various Bases both On Land and Afloat) , The Met Police Land Forces , plus occasionally the Fire Brigade .

I gather that it was all reorganised many years ago ; I understood it was when the realisation of a Threat Of Terrorism to the Houses of Parliment from the Thames was realised

I understood that our trusty open launches that could pull an 80ft Barge ok were changed for Fast Patrol Boats that could travel at about twice our speed , which meant (in some managements eyes) that some of our Floating Bases were not required ; I understand that my old Station at Westminster became a RNLI base , guess it still is one ?

Can anyone please comment with up to date info ? thank you CP

 

[Capt Popeye]

Indeed. Without getting into the respective policies of various agencies, quite a few of them strictly forbid their personnel to enter the water, go afloat or even operate near water. Hence the need to involve a service which specialises in exactly that. Some may dispute whether such policies are sensible, but that's a very different thing from getting them changed.

Yes I recall that there were drownings in Old Mine Workings , Quarrys , etc where the various rescue services involved refused to enter the Water ; thats very worrying as I guess that Police , RNLI, etc do not have rescue craft in them areas of water ;

 

[Outinthedinghy]

Wellall very interesting a discussion indeed ; thank you all ; might mention that in my time afloat in Thames Division I do not recall the Coast Guard or the RNLI being involved in 'shouts' at all ; all and every 'shout' was attended by the Thames Division , (from various Bases both On Land and Afloat) , The Met Police Land Forces , plus occasionally the Fire Brigade .

I gather that it was all reorganised many years ago ; I understood it was when the realisation of a Threat Of Terrorism to the Houses of Parliment from the Thames was realised

I understood that our trusty open launches that could pull an 80ft Barge ok were changed for Fast Patrol Boats that could travel at about twice our speed , which meant (in some managements eyes) that some of our Floating Bases were not required ; I understand that my old Station at Westminster became a RNLI base , guess it still is one ?

Can anyone please comment with up to date info ? thank you CP

As I understand it the reason for the changes was to do with the Marchioness disaster. The MAIB recommended lifeboat stations as well as AIS for all commercial vessels and other craft over a certain size.

For anyone that is interested the Wapping River police station occasionally opens their little museum to the public. They have a very good collection including the searchlight from the Marchioness herself and lots of pictures of the real Police launches from before the Targas were introduced. I often hear Marine Police on the radio "traveling at speed" to somewhere or other. They regularly get stood down anyway but presumably do save lives occasionally.



Thames Police - The Museum Page

 

[Outinthedinghy]

Another point about people in the water is aeration of the water by propellers. You really don't want this. Too many people on boats rushing around can drown people. You can float on water reasonably easily but air is another matter.

Classic example was when the Duck tour boat went down in Liverpool. Nobody was actually going to die but there was quite a lot of slightly panicky revving of boat engines. Turning propellers and aerated water. Bad news.

Also you really don't want to be overloading your own boat.

 

[TwoFish]

I understand that my old Station at Westminster became a RNLI base , guess it still is one ?

Can anyone please comment with up to date info ? thank you CP

If you mean the old Waterloo Police Pier, yes, it's still in service as Tower Lifeboat Station pier. However it's comingto the end of its useful life and a replacement is being readied.

https://rnli.org/magazine/magazine-featured-list/2021/august/tower-appeal

New pier arrives for Tower RNLI

 

[Capt Popeye]

As I understand it the reason for the changes was to do with the Marchioness disaster. The MAIB recommended lifeboat stations as well as AIS for all commercial vessels and other craft over a certain size.

For anyone that is interested the Wapping River police station occasionally opens their little museum to the public. They have a very good collection including the searchlight from the Marchioness herself and lots of pictures of the real Police launches from before the Targas were introduced. I often hear Marine Police on the radio "traveling at speed" to somewhere or other. They regularly get stood down anyway but presumably do save lives occasionally.



Thames Police - The Museum Page

Hi Oitd ; thank you for that info ; Having been out n about a good bit today , then returning home to catch up on Forum , I realist that there have been at least 2 significant changes to the River Thames safety ;

First the River Police updated their Launches to more modern Faster Craft with accomodation /office on board ; this is as I understand it as a result of awareness of increased Terrorist operations and the vunerability of the Houses of Parliament to water bourne attack

Second the RNLI took over the Waterloo /Westminster floating Base , so the main role of rescue on the Thames became the RNLI ; this is as I now understand as a result of that terrible Marchioness disaster

 

[Rascal Joe]

For someone else in trouble, the correct radio cal is 'Pan Pan' (answering 'Mayday' to a typical test question will fail your Marine Radio exam...)

 

[TwoFish]

For someone else in trouble, the correct radio cal is 'Pan Pan' (answering 'Mayday' to a typical test question will fail your Marine Radio exam...)

Surely it's 'Mayday Relay'?

 

[Capt Popeye]

Must ask this question , of this Post ; surely INLAND waters are treated differently to OFFSHORE locations when asking for HELP or ASSISTANCE by a craft afloat on Inland Waters ?

Surely the Local Emergency Services , Police , Fire Brigade , Ambulance etc etc are Local Inshore so are best to handle any Emegency afloat , as well as ashore ?

Surely these Inshore Emergency Services are close to hand , far closer that the Coastguards , so are able to react more quickly , therefore safely more productive ?