Thruster mania

[doug748]

Their most important use is as a numpty alert - hear the whirr and get on deck with a fender pronto. But I will admit that a couple of times getting out of a twisty berth in a cross wind I would have loved one even though my boat is very handy both ahead and astern.

I saw a 45 foot boat preparing to leave his root berth in a marina today. Next time I noticed him he was silently reversing down an isle towards the exit. No fuss no shouting, engine only.
It's still lovely to see someone who knows their business.

 

[rotrax]

Still learning though as new situations arise.

Correct! Almost every time we berth or pick up a mooring the situation is different.

When its a tight downwind berth, big fast running tide and the wrong side for propwalk to help, it can get interesting...................

 

[capnsensible]

Or its use becomes an examinable part of the syllabus!
.

It never will in our lifetimes. There is absolutely no way the expense of installing the kit would ever be justified in a tiny, tiny tweak to what already exists.

You dont have to trust me on this, but you should! :encouragement:

 

[Tranona]

It never will in our lifetimes. There is absolutely no way the expense of installing the kit would ever be justified in a tiny, tiny tweak to what already exists.

You dont have to trust me on this, but you should! :encouragement:

Could not agree more - and it is really unnecessary. The syllabus currently requires teaching of berthing skills and using a bow thruster is not an alternative, but an additional aid to add to the basic skill.

 

[capnsensible]

Could not agree more - and it is really unnecessary. The syllabus currently requires teaching of berthing skills and using a bow thruster is not an alternative, but an additional aid to add to the basic skill.

Indeed. What will be a mandatory extra by January next year are chart plotters. A very useful tool for Day Skippers to go with all the other parts of the syllabus.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Could not agree more - and it is really unnecessary. The syllabus currently requires teaching of berthing skills and using a bow thruster is not an alternative, but an additional aid to add to the basic skill.

My suggestion that the use of bow thrusters might be included was only because they are getting to be so common, not because they are essential. If my neighbour had developed the basic skills he wouldn't have made such an mess of berthing ...

Indeed. What will be a mandatory extra by January next year are chart plotters. A very useful tool for Day Skippers to go with all the other parts of the syllabus.

... just as plotters don't remove the need to learn basic navigational skills.

 

[capnsensible]

My suggestion that the use of bow thrusters might be included was only because they are getting to be so common, not because they are essential. If my neighbour had developed the basic skills he wouldn't have made such an mess of berthing ...



... just as plotters don't remove the need to learn basic navigational skills.

Think how businesses are run . They need to make a profit. Say you have 8 yachts in a school. A cheapo chart plotter (you aint gonna go top of range) is £400. A bowthruster might cost £5k to install. So bowthrusters will never happen.

Someone wants to get some coaching in the use of a bowthruster? Rentapro for a day.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Think how businesses are run . They need to make a profit. Say you have 8 yachts in a school. A cheapo chart plotter (you aint gonna go top of range) is £400. A bowthruster might cost £5k to install. So bowthrusters will never happen.

How much does each boat cost - £100k? £150k?

Someone wants to get some coaching in the use of a bowthruster? Rentapro for a day.

Sounds like a good idea. Alas, the Dunning-Kruger Effect tells us that those who most need the coaching least realise that they do.

 

[capnsensible]

How much does each boat cost - £100k? £150k?

Doesnt matter. No business spends on stuff it doesnt have to. There simply is no case for it.

You dont need to take my word for it, go visit a school or charter boat and talk to the principal or the owner.

Or having been both, listen to me!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Doesnt matter. No business spends on stuff it doesnt have to. There simply is no case for it.

You dont need to take my word for it, go visit a school or charter boat and talk to the principal or the owner.

My point is that if the RYA made training in use of thrusters mandatory (I'm just raising the possibility), and gave a suitably long lead-in, the additional capital expenditure would be pretty trivial. Five grand will about about the cost of a (white) mainsail and genoa for most training boats, no?

 

[johnalison]

What a strange discussion! Anyone who can't work out for themselves what a bow-thruster is going to do shouldn't be in charge of a rubber dinghy, let alone a cruising boat. Making their use part of the syllabus makes no more sense to me than how to hoist a burgee or make a mug of tea.

 

[capnsensible]

What a strange discussion! Anyone who can't work out for themselves what a bow-thruster is going to do shouldn't be in charge of a rubber dinghy, let alone a cruising boat. Making their use part of the syllabus makes no more sense to me than how to hoist a burgee or make a mug of tea.

Was it really that long ago that you have forgotten the very first few times you were on a yacht? Give people credit for wanting to learn.....

 

[capnsensible]

My point is that if the RYA made training in use of thrusters mandatory (I'm just raising the possibility), and gave a suitably long lead-in, the additional capital expenditure would be pretty trivial. Five grand will about about the cost of a (white) mainsail and genoa for most training boats, no?

Yes I understand that but the 5K will go on new sails that will be needed in probably 4 years with intensive use.

Best concentrate on throttle and gears, rudder, springs and fenders, really.

But there is always a masterclass!

 

[JumbleDuck]

Best concentrate on throttle and gears, rudder, springs and fenders, really.

I agree completely/ Anyway, I suspect that Chummy-No-Clue had never taken a lesson in anything, so the syllabus wouldn't really have mattered. I'm all for having the freedom to buy a 37-footer and have a go ... just not next to me, please!

 

[Iain C]

They do make an annoying noise, granted, but is it anymore annoying than clanking halyards?

My old boat was 27' and obviously due her size pretty light and fairly easy to manoeuvre, or stop by hand, although she could sometimes be challenging astern. My current AWB (actually nearly 34' not 32 as per the name) is a joy by comparison, but again not big enough to justify a thruster...it would get 10 minutes of use a year. My friend's boat which I've borrowed a few times at 44' is a big old beastie, and yes, for shorthanded stuff a thruster would be good. I know we're all perfect of course, but if things start to go wrong it may be nice to BRRRRRRR your way out of it before it gets nasty.

So, I'm fine with bow thrusters, apart from one big exception. I don't know if people are trying to justify their investments, but increasingly I see/hear people STEERING with bow thrusters. Why? You have plenty room around you and you're doing 2 knots! Use the bloody rudder, it's what it's there for! I get a little burst here to get the nose off a pontoon, or to come gently alongside another boat, but BRRRRRRRRRRRRR BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR when there's a perfectly good rudder and wheel just seems daft and smacks of someone who can't handle their boat. What do you do when sailing? Rudder or thruster?

I'm also slightly surprised by the "use it when going astern so we don't lose the nose". Perhaps in a very tight spot if it's blowing an absolute hoolie, but if you're loosing the nose perhaps you're not going fast enough? As slow as possible, as fast as necessary and all that...

 

[Lucky Duck]

The exception might be those with twin rudders who don't benefit from prop wash over the rudder.

When looking at new Southerlies a while back it was the first thing to be included when pricing the options list!

 

[Tranona]

I'm also slightly surprised by the "use it when going astern so we don't lose the nose". Perhaps in a very tight spot if it's blowing an absolute hoolie, but if you're loosing the nose perhaps you're not going fast enough? As slow as possible, as fast as necessary and all that...

There are circumstances when this is necessary. My (tight) berth lies E/W and I reverse into it to the west. This is ideal because of our prevailing W/SW winds and as pontoon is on the north side the boat is naturally biased against the pontoon. Even east winds are OK although have to remember that it is blowing in rather than out of the berth. However as soon as there is any north in the wind as wee had for much of the spring and early summer this year the bow is very exposed and blows off as the boat enters the berth. so using the BW helps keep straight and more importantly when single handed keeps the bow in while sorting the lines out.

 

[asteven221]

Personally don't think is really fair to be so critical of others, especially when you don't know the boat and the situation for the skipper at the time. Also, perhaps you should stop to consider that the vast majority of boat owners are amateur leisure sailors out for nothing more than some pleasure. By and large they don't really care about getting badges for being "the skipper who is perfect and is an expert on everything". So if their boat has a device that makes it easier, therefore less stressful and therefore more pleasure for them, why shouldn't they use it? Is it better if they are miserable, stressed out and don't enjoy their boat? Maybe they should get lessons. Maybe they intend to, but for now they have just got the boat and struggling with it and don't want to bash into anyone's boat and revert to the bowthruster as an aid to avoiding damage. Maybe their boat is a pig to handle. Lot's of maybe's, but I don't think it's fair to judge everyone at idiots or numpties just because you happen to find the few seconds of noise so annoying.

As an aside, possibly the worst boat handling skills I have seen over 30 years boating are racing crews of so called experts. Invariably they are so busy barking orders at each other, berthing becomes total chaos. In fact many of the "expert" skippers who I observe who like to bark orders, often end up with chaos all around them when berthing. Sometimes I have gone to offer assistance to the "experts" and been assertively told that no help is required. I then watch with amazement as they smash into the pontoon, or usually lose the stern. If you ask me, they are the numpties, not the skipper who uses a bowthruster. Other "experts" who seem know better are the ones that think their sailing skills are so good they try to sail in/out their berth. Boy oh boy I have watched that pantomime unfold with fellow boat owners running all over the place looking for fenders to protect their boat. All the time thinking to myself "what on earth are you thinking buddy? You are clearly not as good as you would like to think you are? Here's another observation. I can't help noticing that the "experts" seem to have the most shabby boats with the most damage to the topsides!! Hmmm......

So, I put it to you m'lud, who are the numpties? The "experts" who think they are so good and cause chaos when it all goes pete tong as it usually does, or the novices who use their bowthruster, make a little noise and berth without drama?

 

[Iain C]

There are circumstances when this is necessary. My (tight) berth lies E/W and I reverse into it to the west. This is ideal because of our prevailing W/SW winds and as pontoon is on the north side the boat is naturally biased against the pontoon. Even east winds are OK although have to remember that it is blowing in rather than out of the berth. However as soon as there is any north in the wind as wee had for much of the spring and early summer this year the bow is very exposed and blows off as the boat enters the berth. so using the BW helps keep straight and more importantly when single handed keeps the bow in while sorting the lines out.

That's a fair comment in hindsight. My boat lives on a swinging mooring and my club pontoon is just a very long finger. Of course I often visit marinas but no matter what it's blowing I can always get on and off my swinging mooring and have a sail. I could imagine that if the wind and gelcoat bashing potential makes the beginning of a weekend so stressful that you decide not to go to the boat, the thruster in pure economic terms becomes as easy to justify as warm air heating to extend your sailing though the winter.

However, I still see plenty of bow thruster "steering"...even on that finger pontoon...and that's when I tend to think "er, why?"

 

[JumbleDuck]

Personally don't think is really fair to be so critical of others, especially when you don't know the boat and the situation for the skipper at the time. Also, perhaps you should stop to consider that the vast majority of boat owners are amateur leisure sailors out for nothing more than some pleasure. By and large they don't really care about getting badges for being "the skipper who is perfect and is an expert on everything". So if their boat has a device that makes it easier, therefore less stressful and therefore more pleasure for them, why shouldn't they use it? ...

So, I put it to you m'lud, who are the numpties? The "experts" who think they are so good and cause chaos when it all goes pete tong as it usually does, or the novices who use their bowthruster, make a little noise and berth without drama?

I have absolutely nothing against people using bow thrusters. Great devices. However, I reserve the right to disapprove strongly of people who rely on them completely, have no idea how to get the back end of their boats where they want it and damn nearly do thousands of pounds worth of damage to my boat in the process.