Thoughts on some of the motorboats at SIBS 2016

[henryf]

A couple of days at the boat show catching up and wandering round the pontoons.
I've started a new thread as it's going to be a fairly intensive post and I don't want to swerve someone else's baby.

Sunseeker Manhattan 52.
If boats are measured in hype this one surely wins hands down, it's been coming for an eternity with refundable deposits being taken since January. A massive improvement on the previous model. Gone is the feeling of a cramped interior in favour of lots space, big windows and flat floors / ceilings. They have also ditched those bloody curved stairs so there is now a straight through passage to the lower accommodation. They've made the boat more "Princess" inside.



A really good galley space with easy access to appliances and lots of storage - Princess take note! Ok, so some comedian put the fridge freezer out of a 1980's caravan in the slot where the full height unit from a normal 50 foot plus boat should go but that was just a joke, an homage to The Princess project 31 right?



The lower helm seating is hinged to reveal increased saloon seating - again that 1980's caravan dude has been let loose hasn't he! The helm seat is too far back to reach the controls and I'm buggered if I could make it move or indeed even reach the starboard helm seat adjuster. Chart plotter the size of a tea bag fitted for some strange reason.





Down below good accommodation. Not a fan of the silver oak but that's purely personal and can be changed. Floors were a bit squeaky as I moved around. 3rd cabin is a a pair of single beds.



Forward VIP is once again a decent size with lots of light flooding in. Do keep in mind that people will be clambering over the skylight as they use the bow seating.



Master cabin is a very good size with lovely walk around space. Not entirely convinced by the Japanese squat down seating and table arrangement. Is it trying a bit too hard? Will you really walk all the way up to the galley only to bring everything back down and squeeze yourselves into the mini dinette?





No hand rails down the side of the boat - if you fall in getting to the front seating give me a call & we'll skin Sunseeker for a bit of compo. Everyone knows it's one hand for you and one hand for the boat.

On the subject of the forward seating I know it's all the rage but I'm struggling to see someone lugging all their stuff forward along the treacherous side deck. Will you really sit at the table and eat a meal? Is walking on the Perspex skylight for the VIP forward cabin a good idea?

Up on the flybridge something has gone very badly wrong indeed. The helm is well back from the wind dodge to the point where I noticed a flimsy clear Perspex pull up chopping board which is presumably there to protect you. A five pound solution for a million pound problem. The proof will come in the sea trial but in reality the magazine will gloss over it to prevent embarrassing advertorial conflict.



Seating in front of either helm position - why? I think the insurance claim form starts, "I was admiring Sandra, Natasha & Hermione's amazing tits when I inadvertently ran into the other vessel at 28 knots. My bad. The rest of the flybridge is just lots of vinyl cushioning. Surely there is a more imaginative solution for all that space?



Radar arch looks a bit of an afterthought and I can imagine the paint peeling off after a few years.



I was also slightly unsure of the flybridge electrical buttons. The opaque covering makes reading the symbols a bit difficult and I have a sneaking suspicion that with a bit of sunlight the cloudy rubber is only going to get worse.



The crew cabin is very usable. At 6 foot 2 inches I could genuinely move around, have a poo - why do they never have toilet paper on these display boats, and access the ample storage.

The, and I use Sunseeker's words not my own "Beach club" probably isn't for me. I like the pop up shower, that's handy and the fold down seat might be of use although wouldn't there be a ledge to sit on with the bathing platform lowered? The BBQ - surely the whole point of that excellent kitchen being by the patio doors is so that you can cook food for guests in the cockpit. At anchor the boat will swing downwind so the smoke from my burnt toast wafts away. Why do I want grease dripping down the back of the boat when I fold the BBQ away? It's also the most prone area on a boat for sea water spray so I probably wouldn't fit metallic electrical items there.



This boat will sell very well. Sunseeker owners who have coveted the spacious interiors that Princess create can finally remain in brand and enjoy the same. Would I buy one myself? I don't know which is actually a massive compliment. Up to now there has been nothing in the 50 something foot Sunseeker range to remotely tempt me but this might. Whilst there is enough on there to prevent me from saying yes, there isn't enough to make me say no.


Price as displayed- £848,285 plus vat.

 

[henryf]

Fairline

My thoughts on the 53GT & it's vertically challenged master cabin are well known. The 53 open shares the same mouldings so we will have to see New Fairline's 53 Squadron before making any meaningful judgement. The Current 53 is pre change over.

What did impress me on the Fairline stand was their Squadron 65. I've always had a soft spot for this boat. Sure, the hull mouldings were first created in 1857 but there is so much space onboard you don't need to eek out the last few square inches. I remember having a ten minute conversation in the engine room once so large is it.

The fit and finish on that boat was gorgeous. No one has ever said Fairline can't build boats well, they just haven't had the cash to keep up with design changes. The curved cabinetry, well fitting door frames and let's not forget this boat apparently made it back from Cannes on its own keel. You can forgive it for being a little late to the party. That Bay of Biscay can chop up a bit.

I can see why so many sold. A well oiled lunch, dinner and VIP seating in the club before the Barke boys sent in a curve ball of some never to repeated deal. Bang, another 35,000kg left the factory.


Price as displayed £ 1,716,280 plus vat (including hard top).

 

[henryf]

Sealine 530

This boat is never going to challenge the big 3 UK builders in terms of absolute quality. You only have to look at the flimsy sliding side doors which between myself and the salesman couldn't be locked closed. I was scared of breaking the plastic handle or plastic rod.

The question is do you save enough money to overlook any reduction in build quality? I will be honest and say that for me the answer is no so I didn't really delve too deeply. That said an interesting layout.


List price £776,079 plus vat

Advertised show price £ 716,618 plus vat

 

[henryf]

Fleming 58

Hewn out of granite it might be but US$ 3,500,000 translates as GBP £2,700,000 plus Vat.

For that I could buy a base spec Princess 68, a base spec V39 as a little tender, a Porsche Cayenne S to get down to the boat, a Porsche Macan S for the missus, a Porsche 911 Carrera S cabriolet for sunny days and a 911 GT3 RS for a bit of fun. I'd still have £345,896 in cash left over to cover a bit of diesel, the odd candle light meal for 2 and the odd business class plane fare.

 

[henryf]

Prestige 680

A bit like Sealine the build quality isn't quite there for me. Door frames have a few gaps where the joints meet and like Sealine the side doors are not stainless steel with electric locking, they are aluminium. Better than the Sealine but not to Princess / Sunseeker / Fairline standards.

The fact that the Prestige, Beneteau, Jeanneau empire build so many boats means I'm always intrigued to see what they can bring to the table. A bit flat pack furniture inside but just because things are different doesn't make them wrong. The other benefit with scale of economy should be price. Unfortunately recent currency fluctuations means the anticipated savings just aren't there.

In some ways the IKEA of boats. Designed to ease production, good materials technology, a bit of adjustment required to get the most out of the panel fit and door hinges. I know we have resident owners on here so it will be interesting to see long term reliability. Of course IPS worries a Luddite such as my good self but even Princess are fitting it now so who knows?

The layout of the 680 is interesting with potentially 3 really good double cabins reached from 2 separate entrances. I'm not sure whether the forward owners cabin means water slapping is a problem? How much cheaper should a Prestige be for a cheaper fit out compared to what I'm used to? Ancasta very efficient in dealing with any interest shown and friendly on the stand.


680 indicated price - £1,858,935 plus vat.

 

[henryf]

Monte Carlo Yachts MCY65

Not to be confused with the Monte Carlo range of boats which could be seen as the siblings to Prestige. Monte Carlo Yachts are built in a different country to a wholly different brief. They may be feckin' ugly but there are some lovely touches in there in terms of material choices and from what I could see during my 10 minutes on board build quality is up there.

Head height going through to the engine room was a bit tight. Carbon fibre hard top comes included in the price, did wonder if it might radiate heat a bit?

Bow seating looks to be a bit prone. Not sure I'd have the family sitting out there with nothing by way of protection to avoid popping over the side. Big heavy hinged patio doors will generate some momentum in a beam sea.

Impressed with the material choices and internal finishes but a bit too way out there for a simple country boy like me.


£1,974,200 plus Vat indicated price

 

[henryf]

Elling E6

I'm going to vote this the boat of the show for me. I think it's a good looking vessel and like the sense it will do everything a Nordhavn might traditionally be put up for but there's 22 knots on tap when you need it. The MD of the company strapped himself into a production boat and had the yard tip it upside down to confirm that it self rights as per a life boat. Those Dutch are a crazy bunch!



A gorgeous fit out inside and very spacious. The galley kitchen is wide enough to allow easy passage through to the master aft cabin whilst chef Delia prepares fondue. The saloon is both wide and high.



3 separate en-suite bedrooms allow privacy and self containment. The 3rd cabin is a bit of a poor relation but it's not tiny.






I'd love to see the magazine run a test on this boat to see if the claimed 22 knot max and 2,800 mile range at 8.5 knots from a 5,000 litre tank is realistic.

A single engine with get you home wing engine. Some clever power sharing between batteries, inverter and generator mean long term cruising is even more achievable without necessarily running generators 24/7. It also allows a smaller generator to cope with peak loads.

Rear steps are a bit steep and shallow. The garage is nice as it keeps the dinghy tidy although I did wonder if launch / recovery might be tricky with the bathing platform arrangement.

Would I actually buy one? I don't know. It's very different to my current flybridge but that's also why I made it my boat of the show. Southampton is all about seeing stuff your wouldn't otherwise get to poke around.


About £1,350,000 plus vat.

 

[henryf]

Then to Princess, my hosts for the day and current providers.

Princess P49 flybridge
Nothing actually new for me having seen the P49 at Swanwick. I still think the 49 is a good boat with great space inside. This particular P49 had the full size fridge freezer option something sadly lacking from other nearby boats in the line up.



Of course you have to accept IPS which inevitably adds running costs compared to shafts but for many the added ease of close quarters handling will be welcome.






Base price £556,000 plus vat.


Princess P52 Flybridge

The P52 comes into closer scrutiny now the Manhattan 52 is here. With a base price of £709,500 plus vat assuming the same Volvo D11-725 engines it is £55,500 pounds cheaper than the Sunseeker. That buys you tropical A/C, a toilet holding tank, a Bimini cover, dual chart plotters, a 40 inch telly in the bedroom (you already get one in the saloon) and then some.

The saloon doesn't need folding helm seats to make it work and the flybridge is a country mile better than the Manhattan. Galley and crew cabin honours go to Sunseeker.



Overall styling for me falls in favour of Princess but that will be personal taste. Safety and practicality are also awarded to Princess, you can't go boating without side handrails and I don't recall seeing lower aft cleats on the Sunseeker. You won't get weathered to bits on the flybridge and I can reach the steering wheel from the lower helm position. Both boats have that all important self levelling centre logo on the steering wheel !


I can live without step through seating on the bow, there's cushions on the P52 if you really must. The biggest failings are in the Galley.


Base price for the P52 £709,500 plus vat


Princess S65

The boat I keep getting drawn back to at the moment is the S65. A very well proportioned bit of kit and with possibly the best of both worlds. The roof retracts at the touch of a button but there is also a perfectly usable sportsbridge. Smaller than the equivalent flybridge but where you might store a jet ski up on a flybridge the S65 has a tender garage allowing a ski to be kept much lower down on the hi-low bathing platform.

Some lovely styling detail inside such as the lit panel in the lower landing and with curves everywhere on wooden veneered panels. I'm loving the walls which widen where is electrical switch gear then compress to maximise space.

I also like the position of the master bathroom behind the headboard of the bed. Like a full beam owners cabin having the bathroom located here is on the wish list as you acquire your mini superyacht.

A small crew cabin and a lazaret which contains much of the air conditioning and electrical machinery flank the tender garage freeing up the engine room.

The only real problem is finding £ 1,826,342 plus vat to cover the list price including fitted extras !


The P68 is delicious but a further £200k plus vat.....


P56 flybridge

This would be my next natural progression from the P50. Separate saloon and dining areas, lovely flat floors and ceilings throughout. Big lazarette under the cockpit to store all your clobber and still keep the crew cabin available.

My biggest complaint, like the P52 would be aimed at the galley. For us it simply wouldn't work. I'm not going to get down on my knees to poke around in a tiny fridge, I want the same full size fridge freezer we enjoy in our older and smaller P50. Even if you aren't running charters food, juice, milk & so on soon fill up a fridge. You also need lots of cupboards close at hand.


Making lunch for 6 would be a nightmare, dinner an impossibility.


The P60 answers many of the failings of the P56 galley but at £211,000 plus vat more than the £885,000 plus vat base price of a P56 it's quite an expensive fridge freezer.


Ultimately it is possible to design a decent galley on a 50 something foot galley, Sunseeker have done it on the Manhattan 52. Now there's finally a bit of competition it will be interesting to see what the Princess designers can do to fight back.

Henry

 

[RobWales]

Great post, great reading (oh yes I can dream) but Henry we need photo's to accompany the following also.....

"I was admiring Sandra, Natasha & Hermione's amazing tits"

 

[petem]

(my) current providers.

Another Fairline? You know you want to Henry ....

 

[benjenbav]

Interesting thoughts, Henry. I'm just going to return to my old bugbear and ask whether the helm pictured below was meant to be like that or were they in a rush so, having completed their shopping at Maplins, they just threw the bits at the available space and walked away from it?

 

[henryf]

Interesting thoughts, Henry. I'm just going to return to my old bugbear and ask whether the helm pictured below was meant to be like that or were they in a rush so, having completed their shopping at Maplins, they just threw the bits at the available space and walked away from it?

It's like a chart plotter only much smaller

Henry

 

[Nigelpickin]

Thanks for the write up, esp the E6; which could just about be the perfect boat for us..just need to hang on for a couple more years....

 

[rubberduck]

We had a good look at the San Remo as we were seriously considering a used portofino 48 which is pretty much the same, came away convinced Absolute is the way for us. Mid cabin headroom was lacking, & the galley equipment, or lack of it took the biscuit. Compared with the Princess V48, it was hopeless for pretty much the same package. Perhaps Sunseeker have the San Remo down as a tender ?

 

[sharpness]

Great review. The helm design below is ingenious including the dogs water and feeding bowls recessed into the dash ?

 

[petem]

We had a good look at the San Remo as we were seriously considering a used portofino 48 which is pretty much the same, came away convinced Absolute is the way for us. Mid cabin headroom was lacking, & the galley equipment, or lack of it took the biscuit. Compared with the Princess V48, it was hopeless for pretty much the same package. Perhaps Sunseeker have the San Remo down as a tender ?

Yup, ceiling height on the San Remo is maybe even worse than that of the Targa 53. Even I couldn't stand up in it!

Certainly not a problem that afflicts the SS Manhattan 53.

 

[petem]

The curved cabinetry ...

Interesting observation. When the guys and I were at the factory earlier in the year, Fairline were proudly decommissioning their lacquering machine as it had been bought by the previous owners and could only lacquer flat surfaces. Perhaps we're seeing the fruits of this coming through now in the newly designed layout of the Sq65.

Good write up and great photos as ever Henry. Reminds me, I need to get cracking with the stuff we were corresponding about a few weeks ago. How time flies!

 

[MYAG]

May as well cancel the MBY subscription Henry.... Good job and thanks for the heads up on these models as I couldn't make it to the show.

 

[Greg2]

Thanks Henry, an interesting read seeing as we didn't make the show this year. I was particularly pleased to see some pics of the Elling...been a fan for a while and the E6 looks impressive!

 

[henryf]

Another Fairline? You know you want to Henry ....

All it would take is a financial crisis, suicidal deal on a 65 as might or might not have been available at one time.....