Thoughts on Ensign ............. teaser for winter

[Refueler]

Yes I may live as expat outside UK - but I am still a proud Brit. Seems to be a dieing breed though when I read all the news ..

Anyway ... as many know - I have a number of boats :

24ft MoBo - Latvian Register - I am Owner on behalf of the Latvian Company I own.

25ft Motor Sailer - Latvian Register - I am Owner as private person with Latvian Residency.

38ft Sail Cruiser-Racer - Swedish International Certificate - I am Owner on behalf of the Latvian Company I own.

Plus a couple of others ...

I am fully aware of Ensign Flag status that in fact allows the ensign to be of the Owner / majority nationality on board .... but also that this is rarely questioned. My Swedish Int Cert boat - as many others - all fly the Swedish flag - which is strictly not correct, but so far no-one has questioned its being flown wherever boat has been,

With winter creeping up on us ... all except the MoBo are now ashore ... sanding and varnishing the Ensign Staff has made me think about flying the Red Ensign I have (I have 3 actually from the days when I had 3 UK SSR reg'd boats) ... to comply with me being a Brit ...

I assume that Latvian Border Guards would have a field day if I did !! Therefore my idea is to fly the Swedish Flag when she's in 'home port' to keep them happy ... and swap out to Red Ensign when sailing off to another spot ...

Question then being what would be 'reception' ... would Customs descend like vultures ...

 

[rogerthebodger]

My understanding is that its all about the UN law of the sea convention which requires all vessels on the high seas to have a nationality and that any navy ship can request you to prove the nationality of your vessel.

If a vessel has no nationality, it should not go on to the high seas and must remain within the territorial water of the country of the owner.

My 50 ft boat is registered on the South African register of ships, and I can clear out of SA and clear into any other country with the boat registration certificate and the crew passports and visas.

My other boat is not registered and so is my motorboat. which I can only use with in South African territorial waters legally.

There is supposed to be a direct connection between the boat and the owner as a Brit and also having RSA nationally I can legally register my boat in the UK or in RSA but only Part 1 in the UK and I am not resident in the UK

Any comments welcome

 

[Stemar]

Fly the red ensign or union flag from the port spreader as a house flag.

We fly a Breton flag in honour of Madame's ancestry. Years ago, before we had the Breton one, we flew a Tricouleur as a house flag for a while, but gave up because so many people told us we'd forgotten to take down our courtesy flag which, of course, should be flown from the starboard one

 

[Tranona]

That is what we did when using our Greek flagged boat in the Ionian. Very common, even with charterers who did not own the boat.

 

[Refueler]

That is what we did when using our Greek flagged boat in the Ionian. Very common, even with charterers who did not own the boat.

Are you answering my post or Stemars post #3 ??

I have already considered the port flag halyard (once I get them re-installed after previous owner removed them) ... but was just throwing the idea around ...

For 'Roger' post #2 ... the Swedish Int Certificate was devised as a way for 'registration' to be gained in the grey area that exists .... I have spoken to various holders of this Cert - some of whom have travelled extensively with it and they have no incidents or problems to report. They all have flown the Swedish flag without being questioned. No doubt there may be locations that are more aware of its lack of Swedish Flag entitlement ... but so far I have no reports of where.
Most likely its a case of 'shut up' .. show the papers and be happy !

 

[Gustywinds]

Our boat is Dutch registered so we fly Dutch flag at stern, we have French flag on the starboard of the radar arch and we were going to fly a Saltire of the other but someone told the wife the cross of St Andrew is an official signal so we have a cheap and nasty Lion Rampant she bought in a tourist shop on the Royal Mile…

 

[ylop]

I am fully aware of Ensign Flag status that in fact allows the ensign to be of the Owner / majority nationality on board .... but also that this is rarely questioned.

Whilst I am sure that even within UK waters most officials don’t know the rules on flags, it appears to me you’ve slightly misrepresented the U.K. Merchant Shipping Act (1995).

A vessel may fly the red ensign if she is a British Ship (s2(1)). In order to be a British Ship various rules must be met - one of which is that she is not on any other national register (s1(d)(iii)).

Now their may be other customs or even international rules which conflict with that but:

Question then being what would be 'reception' ... would Customs descend like vultures ...

I suspect out of all your options the one most likely to get scrutiny within the EU is the red duster. If it was on the SSR and all your paperwork was up to speed then that scrutiny is likely light touch. Officials all over the world have a boring life so someone with a flag and a registration that don’t match, just seems to be giving them an excuse to dig deeper.

 

[Refueler]

Whilst I am sure that even within UK waters most officials don’t know the rules on flags, it appears to me you’ve slightly misrepresented the U.K. Merchant Shipping Act (1995).

A vessel may fly the red ensign if she is a British Ship (s2(1)). In order to be a British Ship various rules must be met - one of which is that she is not on any other national register (s1(d)(iii)).

Now their may be other customs or even international rules which conflict with that but:


I suspect out of all your options the one most likely to get scrutiny within the EU is the red duster. If it was on the SSR and all your paperwork was up to speed then that scrutiny is likely light touch. Officials all over the world have a boring life so someone with a flag and a registration that don’t match, just seems to be giving them an excuse to dig deeper.

Think you have taken the intent of the thread too deeply ... I am aware of Shipping Acts - probably more than most as it is a part of my career ...

Think of the thread as like a 'winters fireside chat' ...... prompted by the Swedish Int Certificate ... and :>

International certificate | Svenska Kryssarklubben

 

[awol]

...... and of course, one's vessel wears an ensign.

 

[ylop]

Think you have taken the intent of the thread too deeply ... I am aware of Shipping Acts - probably more than most as it is a part of my career ...

Perhaps but its not what you wrote...

I am fully aware of Ensign Flag status that in fact allows the ensign to be of the Owner / majority nationality on board

flying the Red Ensign I have (I have 3 actually from the days when I had 3 UK SSR reg'd boats) ... to comply with me being a Brit ...

None of that will take away from the fact that since Brexit you presumably raise slightly more attention by appearing to be a British Ship in European waters than correctly being a "local" boat. Its likely you'll know better than most what level of scrutiny boats get in the Baltic.

 

[Refueler]

My wording in first post was intentional to get conversation going ....

Its also relevant what I posted about flying Swedish Flag in home location and only changing AFTER departure ...

Pal of mine with similar Swedish Certifacte ... boat moored same marina ......

He was stopped outside the harbour during the summer by Latvian Patrol Boat ... we have sea and air patrols due to the paranoia about Russia and possible invasion of Baltics - it will never happen but ....

They were amused by :

1. Swedish Flag at transom
2. Swedish Int Certificate with his name on
3. His being a Latvian national
4. Home Port written as Nynashamn (Sweden) on boats transom - but moored Ventspils Latvia.

As he said - they smiled, shook their heads and said - Have a nice day !

 

[rogerthebodger]

My understanding of the Swedish Int Certificate is similar to the UK Part 3 or SSR for pleasure. The Swedish Int Certificate may mot be exactly as the UK SSR but a similar idea.

The details of ship registration is up to the country concerned and some do not require a close relationship with the country concerned (flags of convenience) a number of ships based in RSA are registered in Singapore and a friend had his registered in Balise, Poland, Cook Islands and others like Freetown.

The issue is always how long can a pleasure boat stay in any country when visiting some is 6 months others like Brazil is 18 months for my boat being a South African vessel.

OZ seems to be 6 months with a limit of 6 months before another visit.

EU has some countries where its 6 months, but you can clear out and return in a day or 2's time and the 6 months starts again.

Most countries do not seem to have an issue with Sweden so do not hassle any boats using the Swedish Enson. ( neutral country)

 

[Refueler]

Actually the Swedish Cert does ask for Proof of Ownership and it states Owners Name and details on it - unlike SSR in UK. So the two are in fact not as similar as first appears.
Second that the SSR requires and can ask for proof of UK residence - this is what caused my other boats to have SSR refused a few years back. Swedish Cert does not require or ask for such.

Ships Registry is a bit different as most ships actually travel internationally - meaning that they don't incur "time allowed to stay" ... if the ship is purely coastal of that state - then national laws may prohibit having another Flag.
The exception of course is USA ... where they have an extra limitation - where a foreign ship cannot transport cargo between two or more US ports without an intermediate foreign port. The Jones Act :

The Jones Act requires that any cargo traveling by sea between two U.S. ports must sail on an American-owned ship
The UK has a similar but not so strict limitation.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Ok I understand a bit better now

I did know about the UK residence requirement for SSR which is why I did not even to try to register on the SSR.

I did and do consider Poland and my BIL and his Girlfriend live in Poland so they could help, but Swedish could also b a possibility if I understand correctly

 

[chriscallender]

Can't really imagine anyone official descending like vultures or even like robins here (UK) regardless of what ensign you flew / your boat wore. All there are is underfunded government departments who don't have the resources to investigate or prosecute anything perceived to be extremely minor. It's not like it points them to people smugglers or drugs runners, or any of the "real" stuff they are interested in, so a waste of time from their point of view. You could do whatever you felt your conscience lets you do.



Is it really much different in Latvia?

 

[Refueler]

mmmm in Latvia ... you cannot imagine the number of self appointed Dictators here !!

I have a good relationship with Border Guards here ... years of working with them till trade dropped off ... but still they and Customs can be a pain.

 

[Sandy]

Question then being what would be 'reception' ... would Customs descend like vultures ...

Depends if you like the twang of Marigolds...

 

[rogerthebodger]

mmmm in Latvia ... you cannot imagine the number of self appointed Dictators here !!

I have a good relationship with Border Guards here ... years of working with them till trade dropped off ... but still they and Customs can be a pain.

Very much the same where I live except the is a desire for the local authorities to require money from any one they can extract money from

 

[Refueler]

Very much the same where I live except the is a desire for the local authorities to require money from any one they can extract money from

That used to be the case with Police here .... but then Govt stepped in and told the Police that they would jail any officer found to take bribes .... it was common place to pay something to Traffic Police to avoid a ticket ... in those days they were poorly paid and it was way to get something in pocket.

 

[Irish Rover]

My boat is UK Part 1 registered, home port Belfast. Since I took possession of the boat in Croatia in April I've had a small Union Jack on a short mast on top of the hardtop - I'd imagine only a drone can see it but it's there. I fly a 75 x 50 courtesy flag on the fwd stb stanchion of the hard top, and an Irish tricolour of equal size on the port stanchion. No questions asked by authorities in Croatia, Montenegro, Albania or Türkiye.