Topcat47
Well-Known Member
Well there you go. Mind you you'd have a hard job seeing the trees on either end of the lines these days....
Those New Navigation Light Piles Outside Portsmouth.
- Thread starter DJE
- Start date
Seajet
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I thought about photographing the new carrier guidance posts as we went past this Tuesday, but didn't bother as they don't show up; now I wish I had, as that is the bloody point... 
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that, F19, nailed it. Always satisfying when a mystery is solved! Also the 1839 pilot book as been saved as a pdf for winter fireside browsing.
I had a look at Cowper but he spent about quarter of a page on Portsmouth with no detail whatsoever.
Google suggests 'lines' are the fortifications with the rows of guns but there are no shortage of those on the approach. Anyone able to pinpoint/guess where "east end of the trees on Portsmouth Lines" would have been?
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Seajet
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No real idea, but I'd guess maybe trees on Butser Hill ?
Or a lot closer near the shoreline; the main Swashway of course used to be found by lining up the War Memorial with the church spire, until some property developer git ( what other sort is there... ) built a tower block in the way; now it's the memorial lined up with the left side of the - near black - lift machinery room on top of the tower...
I'm sure others here have noticed, the ' stealth ' mast & Sampson radar Type 45 Destroyer job on the skyline shows up like a beacon in fog, rain or shine, when one can't even make out the hill - D'oh !
Or a lot closer near the shoreline; the main Swashway of course used to be found by lining up the War Memorial with the church spire, until some property developer git ( what other sort is there... ) built a tower block in the way; now it's the memorial lined up with the left side of the - near black - lift machinery room on top of the tower...
I'm sure others here have noticed, the ' stealth ' mast & Sampson radar Type 45 Destroyer job on the skyline shows up like a beacon in fog, rain or shine, when one can't even make out the hill - D'oh !
Giblets
Well-Known Member
Do you mean Portsdown Hill? Butser Hill is over 10 miles inland!
Topcat47
Well-Known Member
And I thought Geography was a lost art..........
dom
Well-Known Member
It's funny, but ever since 'mrs d' took it upon herself to make me cycle the South Downs Way once a year I tend to use the Butser Hill and Amberly masts as vague navigation bearings when sailing between the Eastern Solent and Beachy Head. Butser Hill is especially good, as from there it's a long downhill section before lunch in the Queen Elizabeth Country Park
Seajet
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St Catherington Hill nearby is also very good when it's snowing; I did mean Portsdown Hill but how about actually answering my general point instead of smartarse replies ?
alahol2
Well-Known Member
I don't understand the reference to N E, Nelson's monument bears N W from the area of the Nab/Princessa?
The Hilsea Lines I would have thought wouldn't be any good to form a transit, they would not be visible. Maybe the fortifications along Southsea sea front would be termed the Portsmouth Lines?
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
Just been out today, the bright yellow section must extend 4 odd meters above HWS.
Not sure what the problem is TBH
Not sure what the problem is TBH
chrishscorp
Well-Known Member
I too am local and have been some what intrigued by the pilots instructions.
Nelsons Monument would line up nicely with Southsea Castle and the adjoining lines to the east of it which would clear the Princessa shoal, Bembridge ledge etc etc.
The only way to get a NE bearing on the monument would be to pick up and carry your boat over the Isle of Wight
so perhaps it is a typo.....
Seajet
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I think anyone not trying to be argumenative will spot it's less than that; and anyway don't you get the simple idea the things should be easy to spot ? - Yotties & boaties 365 days a year-24/7 - lives in danger; Carrier drivers yet to be decided and only careers in danger a couple of days a year if it's a nice sunny day for cocktail parties...
alahol2
Well-Known Member
If, as reported, the piles will rise 30 metres above the seabed then they should rise some 20 metres above high water. I would have thought they'd be fairly visible most of the time...
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
In fairness the upper structure is battleship grey but I don't think they are any harder to spot that other aids to navigation
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Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
I'd suggest they are just as, and if not then more, visible as other marks on the Solent, but if that concerned one can always just keep just outside the main channel and therefore be well way from them
Mark-1
Well-Known Member
This book keeps on giving, the monument seems to have been used in transit elsewhere to identify all sorts of spots including Bramble Bank. A sort of general purpose BFC/Spinnaker Tower or the mast on the IOW. Incredible to me now because with all the stuff built around it's actually quite hard to spot these days.
Thanks again F19 for posting that pilot book. It's all so familiar yet written before the first propellor steamship when everyone was charging around in sailing ships.
I too am local and have been some what intrigued by the pilots instructions.
Nelsons Monument would line up nicely with Southsea Castle and the adjoining lines to the east of it which would clear the Princessa shoal, Bembridge ledge etc etc.
The only way to get a NE bearing on the monument would be to pick up and carry your boat over the Isle of Wight
I think you've both cracked it, NE must be a typo and some or all of Southsea Castle and its adjacent Batteries must be 'Portsmouth Lines'. I've googled for old postcards to find a photo with some trees with no luck, but it doesn't really matter anywhere works fine.
Makes you wonder if Southsea Castle Lighthouse (built a dozen or so years after Nelson's monument) was intended to form the other point on the Transit but the trees were more visible.
Seajet
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OK, just try to imagine coming from the Western Solent to Chichester, in fog.
Even with a plotter and / or radar, do you go through the uncharted, Navy camouflage grey posts to the Dolphin Passage, or risk it among the possible big ships between the forts..
alahol2
Well-Known Member
The posts are fully charted, if you are up to date with your corrections.
If you can't find (and avoid) those leading marks then I very much doubt if you would find the Main Passage through the submerged barrier.
You do have a tendency toward hyperbole at times.
Lucky Duck
Well-Known Member
Seajet
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The new posts are not on any electronic charts I'm aware of - so are instantly a big problem, especially for less experienced boat owners, who may have made the responsible effort to get a plotter - like the poorly marked submarine barrier from Southsea to Horse Sand Fort; a death sentence for not knowing about it is a bit harsh !
Talking of correcting paper charts via NTM's is frankly stuff for club bar disputes; it would be theoretically possible to put their positions into a GPS, but if you can't see the things in fog, they're a major hazard.
