Those Greek Port Police again!

[alexsailor]

I will be going to Corfu in September, arriving from Montenegro. My yacht is British flagged and privately owned. I assume that I have to check in with Customs or is this not necessary as we are an EU yacht arriving in an EU country. (When we arrived in Italy recently from outside the EU the marina said not to bother with customs as we were an EU boat within the EU)

Do we have to report to the Port Police or do we wait for them to find us.

Any other tips???

TudorSalior

When I arrived the first time in Greece from Croatia (years ago when they were not part of EU) I told them so and I had to go trough customs (too much complications).
Now I just tell them that I arrived form Italy (no matter that Croatia is from 1. July part of EU). But I always arrive from Croatia...
They just sign in my DEKPA and I fill the crew list.
I do that always in Corfu.
When they ask me where my boat is, I tell them that I am anchored in Garitsas bay.

So far no complications.

They'll just want to see your insurance and documents of the yacht.

I would not go for the "Montenegro story"... Last year I met three Swedish guys in Porto police in Corfu. I heard them saying: we arrived form Albania... and the procedure began)

 

[pmyatt]

Our guess was right! F F returned on Wednesday after 4 days at anchor and when they went to check out yesterday they were charged for the whole time on the island. Sneaky!

I should add when the police came to check on the flares and extinguishers they were most polite, refused to come aboard and only wanted to see one sample of each.

For those thinking to give Thasos a miss - don't. It's a great place, prices are reasonable, there's no loud discos and lets face it your flares etc should be in date.

John

Mike also got arrested for "stealing" and taken to the police station when he went to the kiosk behind Tsaki's and attempted to hand in the electronic power/water pedestal key for which we paid €10 deposit last year.

 

[rivonia]

Mike also got arrested for "stealing" and taken to the police station when he went to the kiosk behind Tsaki's and attempted to hand in the electronic power/water pedestal key for which we paid €10 deposit last year.

?????? Whats that all about. Sorry don't follow it? AH OK got it!!

Peter

 

[Cariadco]

Jim, as usual, excellent and concise advice.
I've forwarded your site to a few friends who had a lot of questions.
Thanks,

 

[Steve C Cronin]

Tranona has the matter in perspective. Before indulging in "Daily Mail" indignation it would be as well to take objective stock of the true situation in Greece.

1. There is unrelenting IMF/ECC pressure on the Greek Government to reduce its bloated public payroll. The Limenkos Soma is no different to any other government dept in being required to justify its numbers. Hence the increasing activities of Port Police.
2. Virtually all the cruisers in Greek waters are outside the "innocent passage" category.
3. The levels of seamanship in the units is almost non-existent - I know of one office in Kephalonia who regularly uses an expat commercially-endorsed Yachtmaster to drive their RIB when operating against smugglers.

Even Steve may have noticed that there is additional charge, since October 2012, being made in Messolonghi for launch/recovery port fees.
In 1975 a friend (a JP) spent a night in the cells @ Lesvos, after spilling some diesel when re-filling a charter yacht - one of the other skippers was a CC judge, and great embarrassment was experienced until the local commander offered his apologies and JA's release.
The fact that Delaware and Channel Island registration offer flags of convenience for all sorts of tax-evaders is nothing new, it has been commonplace in Mediterranean France since the early 80's. The concentration of UK registered, non-english speaking boats is high in the N Aegean and Croatian waters - almost unknown in the Ionian.
The right of arrest is inherent to all police forces in all nation-states - most of those frog-marched off to the cells probably deserved their fate by their immediate use of their big tongue.

You just don't get it do you?

How can Greece ever cease to be a burden on the rest of Europe if it allows institutions like the PP to keep on maintaining and trying to justify un-necessary jobs in the public sector? THAT is what the everyman in the streets of Greece realises. Apart from those who participate in this ludicrous circus, that is what every Greek I know, believes. They have to accept that Greece has too high a standard of living to be supported by it's current income. I will be there for the next two months and will have a great time but I know that my Greek friends are ever increasingly criticising the Port Police and other state institutions for their actions.

 

[charles_reed]

I fear that, intoxicated by your own verbiage, you are unable to comprehend what others are trying to say.

With the exception of the Greek politicians and their civil servants, EVERYONE knows they have to cut their public payroll. This is the current tussle going on with the Trioka and, unless Greece cuts its public payroll (and is seen to do so) further tranches of ECC/IMF funding will not be forthcoming.

However, the Greek public bodies are trying to justify their continued existence and their payrolls. They are becoming increasingly active, within their remits. This has an immediate effect on all of us who are sailing in Greece. So the collection of port dues, previously a haphazard affair, is now being actively prosecuted. These "safety inspections" are a new factor but in international law Greece has the right, however much you may resent it, to check on marine traffic within their waters and to regulate it.
In the unique absence of a code of equipment for UK-registered vessels (nearly all the other european countries have such codes for their private leisure vessels) we UK-flagged vessels may well have to be judged against extant regulations, such as SOLAS
http://www.iho.int/mtg_docs/com_wg/...eminar/1B-RW_IMO_Regs_and_Assoc_Standards.pdf

or MCA
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-ho...raftandsmallships/mcga-dqs-cvs-newsletter.htm

It will be all very well to squeak that this is ridiculous but the Greek/Portuguese/French authorities can point out that there is nothing else in the anarchy that is British sailing.
The Portuguese, Spanish and French have their own codes for nationally registered vessels - it's likely that UK sailors should be grateful that these lesser demands are being made on them than the UK's MCA Code

 

[Tranona]

You are right about the reasons for the increased level of activity, and correct in principle about their right to regulate boats in their territorial waters. However, where it falls down is (as in so many things) a lack of official policy, leading to inconsistency as is so often evident in the application of even the existing official policies. In other words, the tendency to make things up as they go along. As I pointed out earlier similar things happened in Portugal in reference to the same subject, but at least eventually there was an official policy. However, it remains to be seen even when there is an official policy, whether it is actually applied consistently!

There are no firm proposals for EU regulation on the subject, nor international as there is for commercial vessels, so guess the inconsistencies are here to stay for the forseeable future - providing good fodder for forums!

 

[Tony Cross]

You just don't get it do you?

How can Greece ever cease to be a burden on the rest of Europe if it allows institutions like the PP to keep on maintaining and trying to justify un-necessary jobs in the public sector? THAT is what the everyman in the streets of Greece realises. Apart from those who participate in this ludicrous circus, that is what every Greek I know, believes. They have to accept that Greece has too high a standard of living to be supported by it's current income. I will be there for the next two months and will have a great time but I know that my Greek friends are ever increasingly criticising the Port Police and other state institutions for their actions.

There is a great deal of truth in what you say, and in Kathimerini this morning I saw the following short article which sums up what you are saying quite well I think, and it's being said by Greeks too. It's not specifically about the port police, but it applies.....

Tourism is the most vital sector of the Greek economy and it should not be treated like a game, so it’s a shame that our politicians so often seem to exploit it for the sake of personal gain.

The recent predicament on the Aegean island of Santorini, which was hit by a power cut during the peak season for tourism, has raised a number of pressing questions.

Why did the authorities fail to ensure that key tourism destinations such as Santorini have safe and adequate power during peak season?

Why did no government official travel to Santorini with the aim of overseeing management of the situation?

Where was Greece’s Tourism Minister Olga Kefaloyianni (otherwise known for her love of public relations stunts)?

The only people who worked to deal with the blackout were the technicians of the Public Power Organization (PPC), its retired staff who struggled to fix the damage to the old equipment, and staff from the Greek navy – all people who are used to performing their duties with scant reward.

Source: http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite3_1_15/08/2013_514183

 

[Steve C Cronin]

I fear that, intoxicated by your own verbiage, you are unable to comprehend what others are trying to say.

With the exception of the Greek politicians and their civil servants, EVERYONE knows they have to cut their public payroll. This is the current tussle going on with the Trioka and, unless Greece cuts its public payroll (and is seen to do so) further tranches of ECC/IMF funding will not be forthcoming.

However, the Greek public bodies are trying to justify their continued existence and their payrolls. They are becoming increasingly active, within their remits. This has an immediate effect on all of us who are sailing in Greece. So the collection of port dues, previously a haphazard affair, is now being actively prosecuted. These "safety inspections" are a new factor but in international law Greece has the right, however much you may resent it, to check on marine traffic within their waters and to regulate it.
In the unique absence of a code of equipment for UK-registered vessels (nearly all the other european countries have such codes for their private leisure vessels) we UK-flagged vessels may well have to be judged against extant regulations, such as SOLAS
http://www.iho.int/mtg_docs/com_wg/...eminar/1B-RW_IMO_Regs_and_Assoc_Standards.pdf

or MCA
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-ho...raftandsmallships/mcga-dqs-cvs-newsletter.htm

It will be all very well to squeak that this is ridiculous but the Greek/Portuguese/French authorities can point out that there is nothing else in the anarchy that is British sailing.
The Portuguese, Spanish and French have their own codes for nationally registered vessels - it's likely that UK sailors should be grateful that these lesser demands are being made on them than the UK's MCA Code

Well, as to your first bit Charles, isn't that exactly what I was saying?

As to the second part "...there is nothing else in the anarchy that is British sailing." I don't think I understand this. Are you saying that the Greek PP are getting awkward with UK boats BECAUSE we don't appear to them to have any regulation? That is absurd. You can't be serious! What does their "regulation" do for safety at sea? What IS the exact purpose of a DEKPA? It certainly has no role in safety or even Greek national security.

 

[charles_reed]

Well, as to your first bit Charles, isn't that exactly what I was saying?

As to the second part "...there is nothing else in the anarchy that is British sailing." I don't think I understand this. Are you saying that the Greek PP are getting awkward with UK boats BECAUSE we don't appear to them to have any regulation? That is absurd. You can't be serious! What does their "regulation" do for safety at sea? What IS the exact purpose of a DEKPA? It certainly has no role in safety or even Greek national security.

No! I am saying that the Greek Port Police are desperately trying to justify themselves, so as to be not decimated - UK-flagged vessels, because of the lack of an official UK national code are sitting targets for the imposition of penalties.

You are obviously unfamiliar with recent Greek history - the last civil war they had was in 1946, when it was touch and go whether Greece remained part of the West or disappeared behind the Iron Curtain. This was finally resolved by a semi-socialist state setup. The soviet system collapsed under its own economic incompetence, Greece didn't change. It's this "social-pact" which is at the root of their current problem. In the KKE, Greece is the only country in Europe to have an unreconstructed Marxist-Leninist party.
All the IMF reports have stressed the need for structural changes in the Greek economy, the reduction in the special privileges accorded to various groups (taxi-drivers, lawyers etc.) by successive right-wing governments and the vastly over-staffed unionised public sector, pandered to by successive Pasok administrations.
Your, understandable, indignation is based upon a very narrow view, unrelieved by any inkling of recent history and undercurrents.

PS. Bill Cooper was, I believe, in one of the Allied landing parties which stopped Saloniki from becoming the capital of the Peoples Republic of Greece - I think you'd find his recollections illuminating - after all he has a longer history of cruising in Greece that just about anyone who contributes to ybw.com forums.

 

[jimbaerselman]

You are obviously unfamiliar with recent Greek history - the last civil war they had was in 1946, when it was touch and go whether Greece remained part of the West or disappeared behind the Iron Curtain.

Understatement, Charles. Unlike you!

That civil war lasted til 1949, by which time "the state" had been demolished, while regions, cities, towns, villages and families were still split into factions, city populations decimated by starvation, and most of the talent had emigrated. An ineffective puppet royalist government was "elected" with the support of USA and UK, victors of this cold war splat. The opposition was banned as a party, but still sabotaging government by any means possible, until the Colonels coup 8 years later "to mend the broken".

Their dictatorship activities of 7 years (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967%E2%80%9374#Civil_rights ) forced the last of the talent from Greece, leaving the country completely devastated by 1974. At that stage their attempted annexation of Cyprus caused a Turkish invasion of the island - and their ultimate loss power.

So, in 1974 Greece was in a far worse position than any other European countries were in 1945. No effective government, most talent emigrated, and a "civil service" which was paid only to do what it was told, and never question orders.

Now, where was UK 30 years after 1945? And we started of with plenty of talent. 3 day weeks, government in thrall to interest groups who routinely brought life and business to a halt, rampant inflation . . .

Hmm, a bit like Greece in 2004 . . . until those EC loans kicked in to keep an invasion of Thatcherism at bay.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

No! I am saying that the Greek Port Police are desperately trying to justify themselves, so as to be not decimated - UK-flagged vessels, because of the lack of an official UK national code are sitting targets for the imposition of penalties.

You are obviously unfamiliar with recent Greek history - the last civil war they had was in 1946, when it was touch and go whether Greece remained part of the West or disappeared behind the Iron Curtain. This was finally resolved by a semi-socialist state setup. The soviet system collapsed under its own economic incompetence, Greece didn't change. It's this "social-pact" which is at the root of their current problem. In the KKE, Greece is the only country in Europe to have an unreconstructed Marxist-Leninist party.
All the IMF reports have stressed the need for structural changes in the Greek economy, the reduction in the special privileges accorded to various groups (taxi-drivers, lawyers etc.) by successive right-wing governments and the vastly over-staffed unionised public sector, pandered to by successive Pasok administrations.
Your, understandable, indignation is based upon a very narrow view, unrelieved by any inkling of recent history and undercurrents.

PS. Bill Cooper was, I believe, in one of the Allied landing parties which stopped Saloniki from becoming the capital of the Peoples Republic of Greece - I think you'd find his recollections illuminating - after all he has a longer history of cruising in Greece that just about anyone who contributes to ybw.com forums.

Quite familiar with the Greek "Civil War" Charles but it did go on a bit longer than you say. Also, our armed forces played a MAJOR part in ensuring that the country didn't go red for which most Greeks are ever grateful. I am reading Nicholas Gage's "Eleni" at the moment but only when I'm actually in Greece - return on Wednesday for two months +. Will you be around?

None of this alters the fact that we cannot go on supporting them forever, even if the french want to! Even the PP will have to accept that and it MUST be sooner than later.

Have you heard much of Bill Cooper recently? Last time I saw him was in Levkas when he had just gotten Hosannah re-floated after going aground at the bend in the canal. Had tea with them both.

 

[charles_reed]

Fortunately, (and against my previously held views) the UK is sufficiently detached from the €uro area to not be involved in official support of the Greek state mismanagement. For that reason I find your choler misplaced.
As to the French view of "solidarity" we all know that is €urospeak for "let's us all enjoy these goodies and let's have you pay for them".
That the Greek state has the difficult transition before them from a state-regulated economy to a market oriented one is quite a challenge in itself. It ill-behoves us, IMHO, as guests of the Greek people to level subjective criticism at their struggles against the inevitable.
Are the public sector bodies, assured of an easy well-paid life and an early retirement by successive governments to blame for the situation in which they find themselves or the Greek politicians who have so mismanaged their country?

The last I heard of Bill and Laurel was that they were ashore in E Anglia.

Having been personally involved in the Limenas, Thassos aituation, about which you write, I can assure you that the two leading hands who carried out the "safety inspection" were as puzzled as the recipients by their instructions received from the mainland; behaved entirely correctly with courtesy and a total lack of aggression. The subsequent "arrest" of "Forever Freedom's" crew, when he tried to return a year-old key to the Port kiosk was down to abreaction by the idiot who runs that kiosk (and involved the municipal police and NOT the Limenikos).

 

[1bobt]

Stupidity..last year i arrived in Aegina water lady was behind by boat I asked for a water token and gave her 50 euro note,she said she had no change.I said no problem ,as we can sort it out after I had measured the amount of water I took on.
She then asked for port fees ,which were about 8 euro I said I had no money as she had not given me change.She then call P P who arested me for not paying,!

 

[charles_reed]

Stupidity..last year i arrived in Aegina water lady was behind by boat I asked for a water token and gave her 50 euro note,she said she had no change.I said no problem ,as we can sort it out after I had measured the amount of water I took on.
She then asked for port fees ,which were about 8 euro I said I had no money as she had not given me change.She then call P P who arested me for not paying,!

Good reason for not paying for anything until you've had it. Whether they've change or not. You really must have got on her wrong side tho....

 

[jimbaerselman]

Also, our armed forces played a MAJOR part in ensuring that the country didn't go red for which most Greeks are ever grateful.

Some analysts would say that the minority were grateful. The majority (which would ultimately became PASOK + KKE) weren't. A few hundred thousand fled northwards, mostly to Albania, as a reaction.

 

[Squeaky]

What IS the exact purpose of a DEKPA? It certainly has no role in safety or even Greek national security.

Good afternoon:

While not wanting to get involved in this argument, I believe that the DEKPA was originally introduced to regulate the number of people on yachts sailing around the Greek waters - there was something to the effect that too many yacht owners were chartering without paying taxes etc and the DEKPA was to record the arrival and departure of "guests". Don't think it ever solved any problems but like many regulations once it was established, no one ever had another look at it's effectiveness.

A bit like the "blue card" in Turkey, suspect it will be with us for many many years because no one will have any interest in cancelling it. What the heck someone is making a few lira from it which has nothing to do with the original theory.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[1bobt]

Good reason for not paying for anything until you've had it. Whether they've change or not. You really must have got on her wrong side tho....

No she was stupid and only had the job ,because of the size of her tits.
This was said by the port police chief who had to sort it out .lol

 

[skipklaus]

No she was stupid and only had the job ,because of the size of her tits.
....

Hmmm, i loved her tits as well and she was always correct and very friendly.

 

[Steve C Cronin]

Good reason for not paying for anything until you've had it. Whether they've change or not. You really must have got on her wrong side tho....

Trust a Greco-phile like you to assume that Charles was to blame! No doubt the other one will also be along soon!

When something very similar happened to me earlier this year in another popular spot, a Greek friend of mine, a native of the town, raced off after the perpetrator, boxed him around the head and got my money back. The kid was taking advantage of holding his grandmother's keys to the water and my friend had been watching his antics for a few days.