Those cheap AIS Transponders... are they any good?

[Phil_boat]

Just about to order an Onward AIS KS-200+ (the one with NMEA2k and WiFi).

Does anyone happen to know if it will output GPS by NMEA0183 that I can use for my VHF?

Still undecided about changing my plotter, the iPad on a flappy bracket is bugging me but the Navionics app works so well, I can't imagine a built in plotter being any better (except that it would also do depth and send speed to my engine gauge).

 

[PaulRainbow]

Just about to order an Onward AIS KS-200+ (the one with NMEA2k and WiFi).

Does anyone happen to know if it will output GPS by NMEA0183 that I can use for my VHF?

It should do.

 

[jakew009]

Just about to order an Onward AIS KS-200+ (the one with NMEA2k and WiFi).

Does anyone happen to know if it will output GPS by NMEA0183 that I can use for my VHF?

Still undecided about changing my plotter, the iPad on a flappy bracket is bugging me but the Navionics app works so well, I can't imagine a built in plotter being any better (except that it would also do depth and send speed to my engine gauge).

It does output GPS on NMEA0183.

My colleague bought this one, turned up in less than a week. I was quite impressed.

You can get a GPS receiver for peanuts https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/286559220761

It doesn’t have a built in splitter but you can either buy a splitter or just fit a second antenna which is probably better anyway.

The fact it has a built in website that you can use to set the MMSI etc from your phone actually makes it easier to use than all the other name brand ones that use the crappy ProAIS2 software.

For around 250 quid including a GPS antenna and VHF antenna it makes the others all look a complete ripoff.

Aves marine sell the same thing but have nearly doubled the price with their markup KS-200A+ New AIS product

 

[Phil_boat]

It should do.

It does output GPS on NMEA0183.

Great thanks both. Obviously once I gave it I can connect it up and check. My VHF keeps losing location for some reason. I guess either a dodgy connection or the plotter is failing.

Aves marine sell the same thing but have nearly doubled the price with their markup

Yeah I can’t really justify doubling the cost of it tbh.

At the moment I plan to put a second aerial on the roof, should be easy enough and cheaper than a splitter.

 

[PaulRainbow]

It does output GPS on NMEA0183.

The model the OP quotes also has N2K, does it not output over N2K too ?

The fact it has a built in website that you can use to set the MMSI etc from your phone actually makes it easier to use than all the other name brand ones that use the crappy ProAIS2 software.

The reason most (not all) AIS use ProAIS2 is that they are manufactured by SRT, the parent company of Emtrak.

There is nothing wrong with ProAIS2, it's setup tab is simple to use and is also has other useful features, such as monitoring and diagnostics.

 

[geem]

You cannot send NMEA GPS to an AIS transceiver for outgoing AIS, it has to have it's own, GPS for that.

It comes with it's own GPS. I just bought the onwa ks200. I already had a dedicated antenna but I decided to convert to a specific AIs frequency antenna at the same time. It seems to be a good bit of kit and the support was good

 

[jakew009]

The model the OP quotes also has N2K, does it not output over N2K too ?



The reason most (not all) AIS use ProAIS2 is that they are manufactured by SRT, the parent company of Emtrak.

There is nothing wrong with ProAIS2, it's setup tab is simple to use and is also has other useful features, such as monitoring and diagnostics.

Yes it also outputs GPS over N2K unlike my Raymarine one

There is nothing “wrong” with ProAIS2 but it’s a pain in the ass for a non technical person compared using their phone WiFi.

For a start they need a windows laptop with them.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Yes it also outputs GPS over N2K unlike my Raymarine one

Which Raymarine AIS do you have Jake ?

There is nothing “wrong” with ProAIS2 but it’s a pain in the ass for a non technical person compared using their phone WiFi.

For a start they need a windows laptop with them.

ProAIS2 can be used on Windows or a Mac. Wifi versions of most (all?) SRT based transceivers (Garmin, Raymarine Emtrak etc etc) can also be programmed using an app on a phone/tablet.

 

[jakew009]

Which Raymarine AIS do you have Jake ?

ProAIS2 can be used on Windows or a Mac. Wifi versions of most (all?) SRT based transceivers (Garmin, Raymarine Emtrak etc etc) can also be programmed using an app on a phone/tablet.

The Mac version of ProAIS2 is useless, they haven’t bothered to update it for Apples own processors. So doesn’t work unless you Mac is an ancient Intel based one.

Mine is Raymarine AIS700, it has some pretty weird restrictions like not outputting GPS over N2K nor outputting heading information when the boat is stationary.

 

[Refueler]

The Mac version of ProAIS2 is useless, they haven’t bothered to update it for Apples own processors. So doesn’t work unless you Mac is an ancient Intel based one.

Mine is Raymarine AIS700, it has some pretty weird restrictions like not outputting GPS over N2K nor outputting heading information when the boat is stationary.

How does any GPS item know heading info if the boat is not moving for it to determine from successive position calculations ?

 

[PaulRainbow]

The Mac version of ProAIS2 is useless, they haven’t bothered to update it for Apples own processors. So doesn’t work unless you Mac is an ancient Intel based one.

Mine is Raymarine AIS700, it has some pretty weird restrictions like not outputting GPS over N2K nor outputting heading information when the boat is stationary.

The specs say that PGN 129029 (GNSS position data) is transmitted.

Where does your AIS get heading data from ?

 

[jakew009]

How does any GPS item know heading info if the boat is not moving for it to determine from successive position calculations ?

It uses the heading sensor. That’s why you can see the orientation of boats in marine traffic.

 

[jakew009]

The specs say that PGN 129029 (GNSS position data) is transmitted.

Where does your AIS get heading data from ?

Yeah I know but it's bollocks This is what it is transmitting right now (its ID is 43):



Any the only 129029 is coming from the Garmin GPS receiver:


There was a thread discussing it here previously: Raymarine AIS700 GPS Output

I have just realised though it appears I have two sources of heading I didn't even know the GPS24XD had a heading sensor in it and I'm sure it wasn't transmitting before. I wonder if that's why the RM isn't transmitting heading info... both on the same instance number as well.

 

[PaulRainbow]

If i get a minute i'll see what my Garmin AIS outputs on N2K. Is the GPS out set on yours, vis ProAIS2 ?

Might be worth turning the 24XD heading sensor off, see if that helps ? Disabling Magnetic Heading of a Garmin® 24xd GPS Antenna with Built-In Heading Sensor | Garmin Customer Support

 

[Refueler]

It uses the heading sensor. That’s why you can see the orientation of boats in marine traffic.

Most GPS do not have Heading Sensor as its not required ... the heading is provided by ther successive averaging of position fixes. But I am aware that various do have Heading Sensor. My question to you was general.

Marine Traffic using heading sensor ?? That's a good one ... Marine Traffic takes AIS data and displays it .. AIS data includes heading data ... Marine Traffic has no way of determining other than the AIS data received.

 

[jakew009]

If i get a minute i'll see what my Garmin AIS outputs on N2K. Is the GPS out set on yours, vis ProAIS2 ?

Might be worth turning the 24XD heading sensor off, see if that helps ? Disabling Magnetic Heading of a Garmin® 24xd GPS Antenna with Built-In Heading Sensor | Garmin Customer Support

This is difficult when I don't have a Garmin plotter and the alternative way of disabling it is to drive my boat in slow left hand circles (when it is currently on the hard until the Spring )

Yeah, the GPS option is enabled but I think that only affects the 0183 output.

 

[jakew009]

Most GPS do not have Heading Sensor as its not required ... the heading is provided by ther successive averaging of position fixes. But I am aware that various do have Heading Sensor. My question to you was general.

Marine Traffic using heading sensor ?? That's a good one ... Marine Traffic takes AIS data and displays it .. AIS data includes heading data ... Marine Traffic has no way of determining other than the AIS data received.

I don't really understand your point, AIS transmissions have both course over ground and heading in them. Marine Traffic gets sent this data and displays it. You can see a ship that is reversing.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Most GPS do not have Heading Sensor as its not required ... the heading is provided by ther successive averaging of position fixes. But I am aware that various do have Heading Sensor. My question to you was general.

That is incorrect.

Heading is the direction that the bow is pointing, it needs some sort of heading sensor for that.

Course is the direction that you're travelling, typically derived from GPS data, as you say.

 

[Phil_boat]

Extending NMEA2k between 2 T pieces... Is the max cable length 6m? Or does the 6m limit only apply to drop cables between devices and the backbone T pieces?

1m would reach but it has has to go from overhead the windscreen to the back of the wheelhouse and then forward again. Probably.

 

[PaulRainbow]

This is difficult when I don't have a Garmin plotter and the alternative way of disabling it is to drive my boat in slow left hand circles (when it is currently on the hard until the Spring )

Yeah, the GPS option is enabled but I think that only affects the 0183 output.

I'm not so familiar with the Raymarine AIS, i default to fitting Emtrak AIS, so i've had to have a do a little research. Surprisingly, the Raymarine AIS does not have the same features as the Emtrak models, although they are made by the same company, SRT. To my mind, the Raymarine version is inferior, although it costs considerably more.

The manual says the is transmits GNSS, but on page 35 it says ;

"Important:

The AIS unit has its own GNSS (GPS) receiver. This GPS data can be multiplexed with the AIS data and output on the high speed (38,400)
NMEA 0183 output. However, this feature is intended for diagnostic and troubleshooting purposes only. To prevent potential GPS data
conflicts or loops and / or performance issues, the AIS unit’s internal GPS receiver is intended to provide GPS data to the AIS unit
only. Therefore, the AIS unit’s GNSS (GPS) receiver should NOT be used to provide GNSS (GPS) data to multifunction displays or any
other external device."

So i'm not sure if it sends GNSS at all, or only if there is no other GNSS source on the N2K network.