prv
Well-Known Member
Correction - they used to. As I said, I suspect this service was a casualty of their recent cuts (last couple of weeks) and so the new message hasn't yet got through to everyone.
Pete
This is how to get rid of your out of date flares.
- Thread starter Croak
- Start date
Correction - they used to. As I said, I suspect this service was a casualty of their recent cuts (last couple of weeks) and so the new message hasn't yet got through to everyone.
Pete
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
This lead lining puzzles me too. I've never heard of lead being used as armour plating.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
What happens if a member of the public finds a bag full of TEPs dumped on the street and in a public-spirited way takes them to their local cop shop? Or if an antisocial type just ties the bag onto the cop shop door handle when it's closed?
FishyInverness
Well-Known Member
A) The police can still refuse them - they have no remit to accept them, nor facilities to store or dispose of them - also, if you've got a particularly wily cop with time on their hands, they might decide to "investigate" where they were "found", if you get my drift 
B) They'll investigate! If it's a station in the know, they would likely contact the coastguard for disposal.
B) They'll investigate! If it's a station in the know, they would likely contact the coastguard for disposal.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
A) The police can still refuse them - they have no remit to accept them, nor facilities to store or dispose of them - also, if you've got a particularly wily cop with time on their hands, they might decide to "investigate" where they were "found", if you get my drift
I wasn't suggesting anything dodgy, guv. I was just wondering what would happen if a member of the public did genuinely find a bag of flares and hand it on or report it. A few years back a walker found a small bag of fertiliser (in an agricultural area - yeah, surprising) in an abandoned shed near me; we had the bomb squad out and the road closed for two days.
prv
Well-Known Member
I suspect Hampshire Police would direct them to the Coastguard. This might be beyond the limit of said individual's public spiritedness, resulting in the flares remaining in circulation, but that's not the problem of the civilian on the front desk.
I imagine police stations generally have CCTV, so if the antisocial type can be identified they can expect to be prosecuted.
Pete
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
I like that one. Mind you I note you dont suggest using the ferry to norniron! Wonder why.
Personally I am very good about not throwing rubbish overboard but if the authorities wont do their job then neither will I. My out of date flares will be jettisoned at sea
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
If you were to turn up with a cat on your head looking half crazed would they take them then?
FishyInverness
Well-Known Member
I have to say i'm more than a little surprised at the amount of people on here who are content, at least in theory, to put the public in danger because it's a little bit complicated to dispose of flares, which aren't always compulsory to carry anyway.
I couldn't imagine knowingly putting something harmful anywhere near the reach of children, of which sea dumping and dumping at a civil refuse centre both come under. When I was about 8, I remember picking up a Green Flare cannister which had been washed up on Worthing beach and playing "war" with my sister with it...luckily it was empty, my mum let me keep it! Imagine, if it had been live, however?
There still isn't any legislation that I have been able to find, which makes it illegal to dispose of by setting-off a pyrotechnic in a friendly farmer's private field somewhere inland.....so there's the safe option.
I couldn't imagine knowingly putting something harmful anywhere near the reach of children, of which sea dumping and dumping at a civil refuse centre both come under. When I was about 8, I remember picking up a Green Flare cannister which had been washed up on Worthing beach and playing "war" with my sister with it...luckily it was empty, my mum let me keep it! Imagine, if it had been live, however?
There still isn't any legislation that I have been able to find, which makes it illegal to dispose of by setting-off a pyrotechnic in a friendly farmer's private field somewhere inland.....so there's the safe option.
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FishyInverness
Well-Known Member
If you were to turn up with a cat on your head looking half crazed would they take them then?
Well "they" decided it was worth employing me for a while, so I must have convinced them
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
From David Lee from the Maritime & Coastguard Agency Enforcement Unit (via Ribnet forum):
"As you are aware of the Distress Signals and Prevention of Collisions regs, I won't go further on those other that they apply if the signal is fired from, or near a vessel. ('near would come into debate if other vessels were in the vicinity such as busy Solent, Portsmouth Harbour, harbour or coastal areas etc)"
"I am not a lawyer, but I can say that there have been successful prosecutions that have been made by police forces when flares have been set off inland. These have been offences under the Firearms Act 1968 as pyrotechnics can fall under the definition under s57. Other offences include, wasting police time, breaches of the peace, public disorder, Explosives Substances Act 1874. Each case would have to be looked at on merit and generally will be vigorously pursued."
"There is no 'specific' legislation, each case would be looked at on merit. With regard to demonstrations etc. these are dealt with on a local basis by HM Coastguard MRCCs and Sector Managers. Approved demonstrations are normally with white or green pyros so as not to attract 999 alerts and reports from aircraft."
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prv
Well-Known Member
It's a good point re burial at sea, but I can't see how handing them in at the council tip counts as "within reach of children".
I wouldn't call it the safe option, for parachute flares. OK, maybe in the current weather while everything's too wet to burn, but it could still make a nice mess of anything plastic like a covered haystack/silage/etc or a caravan or shed.
Doesn't seem like a problem for hand flares, though. Perhaps I should set mine off in my back garden at the weekend. That's certainly not going to constitute a breach of the peace or public disorder (cf Angus's post), and I assume the Firearms Act is concerned with projectiles like a parachute flare, not a burning hand flare.
Pete
FishyInverness
Well-Known Member
Yep, the MCA don't want people setting them off inland, and I can understand why - However, their arguments can't hold up in the face of the legislation that exists - and I support an inland controlled release on PRIVATE ground, far more than leaving them somewhere where they can do harm..but just to Debunk Mr Lee (Who admits he's not a lawyer, but then uses a bit of spin that Cameron would be proud of by trotting out legislation which doesn't fit)
A) Flares don't fall under the firearms legislation, fact. In fact tube launnched flares are SPECIFICALLY excluded in Scottish law, which is based on the same act. I'm not sure at this time on English Law. So, Apologies to Mr Lee, but he loses on that one. [Ok, Edit for sake of my anal nature with these things : He is right in his careful choice of words "can fall under" as certain projectiles launched from a barrel exist in a state where they *can* be considered firearms given very specific parameters, but in practically all cases this involves the release IN PUBLIC.]
B) Wasting police time :- VERY subjective, it's not a waste of police time if YOU don't call the police, prosecution for wasting police time would come down to intent - so if you set off a flare on your brother's 30 acres, and a cop car turns up because someone called them - it's not you that required or summoned them. Difficult to get an arrest to stick with that one.
C) Breach of the peace - Potentially possible, I can see how it might be applicable, but if you've notified your neighbours what you are doing, it would be hard to prove you are "Putting the lieges into a state of fear or alarm".
D) Public Disorder - Ohhh, what a straw grasp! Yup, if you wanna fire a flare in the street when rioting, you've got it coming to you - if you're setting it off on private land as a controlled disposal, no, just...no...
E) Explosive Substances act....damn he's got me, I'm going to have to go and read some stuff now...damnit!
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AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
I don't know if Mr Lee is right or not, I just copied it from Ribnet for information.
FishyInverness
Well-Known Member
Well, the "general refuse" area at my local "recycling centre" (Not called tips anymore!) is an open mouthed compacting skip, anything thrown in just lies there until the next time it's operated, and can be pulled out again by anyone - if I saw someone chuck a flare in there, i'd be leaving at speed
Given there Pete, I can see that. just wondering if there isn't some way a hole could be dug with a lip for it to be fired down into? As I say, it's about legality and safety of disposal that my train of thought goes to here...
prv
Well-Known Member
Ah, ok. Ours is a much larger and more organised operation, with a lot of staff about. The "skips" are large containers sited below the level of the parking bays, so you throw your stuff down into them over a railing. No way for anyone to pull stuff out.
I was having similar thoughts, like firing it into a bin full of water, but worried about it bouncing around inside and launching back out again. Maybe the thing to do is fix the lid down and fire the flare in through a small hole cut in it. I think I'd be happy with my own safety with that approach, but it still seems a bit irresponsible in a city back garden
Pete
SAMYL
Well-Known Member
FishyInverness
Well-Known Member
Ah, ok. Ours is a much larger and more organised operation, with a lot of staff about. The "skips" are large containers sited below the level of the parking bays, so you throw your stuff down into them over a railing. No way for anyone to pull stuff out.
I was having similar thoughts, like firing it into a bin full of water, but worried about it bouncing around inside and launching back out again. Maybe the thing to do is fix the lid down and fire the flare in through a small hole cut in it. I think I'd be happy with my own safety with that approach, but it still seems a bit irresponsible in a city back garden
Pete
Got ya Pete, I'd just hate to hear of a flare going off at one of these places and hurting someone, best to get shot of them somewhere where the public don't have access.
On the drum issue, your approach is always how I think of the best fashion, but again, in a large privately owned space with plenty of room to retreat to a safe distance - at the end of the day, firms like Ramora dispose of them by burning them at high temperatures in massive metal ovens.
prv
Well-Known Member
I'm sure I've also seen the suggestion of drilling a hole through the middle and immersing them in water to become inert.
I think I might be a bit nervous as the drill went in though
Pete
I think I might be a bit nervous as the drill went in though
Pete
srm
Well-Known Member
I finally got around to disposing of the 20 plus year old flares that have been sitting in my shed for almost that long. I did not fancy setting them off after the reports a few years back of serious injury inflicted to an instructor setting off an in date hand flare. Quite simply I burnt mine.
Before anyone howls in protest I have a relatively safe space with walls on three sides to contain any blast and sufficient space and wind direction not to annoy the neighbours with the smoke. Parachute flares were placed with the tops pushed into an earth bank to contain them and the fire material built over them. Fire was then lit and I retreated to a very safe distance. No explosions occurred, the flares just burnt with a lot of smoke and flames. However, I did discover that the fire has to be very hot to ignite them, dry wood and a breeze rather than cardboard and paper was required for ignition. Next day all that was left among the cold ashes were a few twisted metal flare cases.
Before anyone howls in protest I have a relatively safe space with walls on three sides to contain any blast and sufficient space and wind direction not to annoy the neighbours with the smoke. Parachute flares were placed with the tops pushed into an earth bank to contain them and the fire material built over them. Fire was then lit and I retreated to a very safe distance. No explosions occurred, the flares just burnt with a lot of smoke and flames. However, I did discover that the fire has to be very hot to ignite them, dry wood and a breeze rather than cardboard and paper was required for ignition. Next day all that was left among the cold ashes were a few twisted metal flare cases.
