Thinking of buying my first yacht - advice please

[Molteni]

Just had an enjoyable few days from Falmouth sailing a Dufour Classic 35, gaining my "competent crew" certificate

I've thought for a long while about buying a yacht, 30-35 foot range but am put off by not really knowing what ongoing costs are involved. Obviously the purchase price is just the "down-payment" but what are the real costs of ownership?

Someone mentioned getting a yacht to Cat 2 coding then allowing it to be chartered as a way to reduce costs, while leaving plenty of free weeks to enjoy sailing myself. Someone else said that ownership would need to have at least 40 days sailing per year to justify buying as opposed to chartering

I'm hooked, just need to work out the best way forward! Real world experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

 

[tawhiri]

The marina costs will be the most dominante. Two thirds of my budget goes towards the marina. My wife said buy a boat you can sail by yourself. This was the best advice for me. Look into part ownership a third or quarter ownership will keep the running costs down. However if your looking for three to four weeks use per year, then chartering is you best deal. Now is a buyers market so you could get a really good deal without looking too hard.

 

[Tranona]

Forget about chartering. The market is stuffed with boats available for charter and the costs of running the boat and servicing clients will probably exceed the income.

The "cheapest" way of running a boat is to buy one that is in top notch condition and does not need money spent on replacements and upgrading as these are the biggest potential variable costs. Berthing and basic maintenance (hauling out, anti fouling, engine servicing and insurance) are predictable although variable (particularly berthing) depending on where you are and the type of mooring you use. The only way you can reduce these is to share the boat with others.

Just as a rough guide, basic fixed costs are in the region of £500-1000 pa and berthing from £500 for a seasonal swinging mooring to as much as £5000 for a marina berth. You need to do some research in the area you want to sail to see what is available at what price. over time it is not unreasonable to think of spending average 5-10% value of the boat in repairs and replacements each year.

 

[jac]

Just as a rough guide, basic fixed costs are in the region of £500-1000 pa and berthing from £500 for a seasonal swinging mooring to as much as £5000 for a marina berth. You need to do some research in the area you want to sail to see what is available at what price. over time it is not unreasonable to think of spending average 5-10% value of the boat in repairs and replacements each year.

Need to think about where you want to keep a boat. Tranona mentions up to £5k for a Marina. Places around the Solent will start at around £5k for the length you want and go up to about £10k - a cheap swinging mooring in other areas may be less than £500. If you will be doing a lot of weekends/ day sails then the convenience of a marina may be worth it. If you will just do a couple of long trips a year then don't bother with a a marina.

 

[awol]

In the words of Felix Dennis “If it flies, floats or fornicates, always rent it.” - except I believe he used another f-word for fornicate and Felix has demonstrated an enviable ability to accumulate wealth. Another wise saw is "A boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money." What I'm trying to say is if you are trying to generate an economic argument for boat owning, don't bother, you won't succeed. However, the emotional arguments can be overwhelming, just don't expect your loved ones to share them but if they do, you are a lucky man.

 

[richardbrennan]

I have a 33' boat I keep in Haslar Marina. The fixed costs are berthing at just under £5K which is at the lower end of Solent marinas, the annual insurance is just under £400 and servicing the engine about £300. I recon on something like £400 for a lift and a couple of months ashore each year for antifouling, hull polishing and the like, and the antifouling itself is a fairly hefty £240. On top of this you really need put about £1K a year aside for renewing such items such as sails and spray hoods and the odd upgrade to equipment, (last year I fitted AIS). This gives me a ball park figure of about £8K a year. As others have said, you can reduce this considerably by finding a cheaper alternative to marina berthing, where you wish to keep the boat, and servicing the engine yourself, but I think it a fairly accurate figure for what you should expect in a south coast marina.

 

[Tempus]

Just had an enjoyable few days from Falmouth sailing a Dufour Classic 35, gaining my "competent crew" certificate

Someone else said that ownership would need to have at least 40 days sailing per year to justify buying as opposed to chartering

As is said above, owning a boat is a totally illogical lifestyle decision. If you are trying to work out how many days per year you need to own rather than charter, then don't. However, we bought our first boat in our 30's following Day Skipper and a few flotillas and have owned and loved owning a boat ever since. The difference is that every time you use it your hobby gets cheaper, and it rapidly becomes a home from home. It's never the same chartering someone else's boat, or even sharing ownership as then you can't leave your stuff on board between uses and it always feels like staying in an anonymous hotel room rather than your personal space.

There's an old saying that an accountant asked a boat owner how often he went on his boat. "20 times a year" came the answer. "Ahh, you'd be better chartering." "No", said the owner, "I may only be aboard for 20 days per year, but I'm dreaming about her, and enjoying her 365 days".

Go for it, work out what you can afford (as above, mooring is the killer), and enjoy!

 

[Kelpie]

Servicing the engine should be basic DIY- oil, filters, anodes. I reckon £50 a year would cover it easily. You need to be familiar with your engine anyway for safety reasons.
Likewise, if you have time to sail then you have time to antifoul. Not the most fun job in the world but it gives you a reason to get up close and personal with the hull and spot any problems. The paint itself isn't cheap- we were about £50 last year for a 27ft boat.

 

[corinthmistral]

suggest decide where you will keep the boat first then buy accordingly - a lot of marinas have waiting lists, and you can then plan to your budget. e.g. where we keep our boat prices range from less than 100 a year for a drying mooring to 3000 a year for a marina berth for the same sized boat. agree with all other comments - the cost of the boat is usually outstripped within a few years by the cost of berthing, haul in and out, insurance, antifouling and then anything else spent on repairs, upgrades and general maintenance. but dont let that put you off! buy to your means and enjoy - its a buyers market and lots of good boats around at a modest price and there are still places to keep them relatively cheaply if you're not too picky and shop around. good luck!

 

[lpdsn]

The advantage of chartering is that you can try lots of boats over the first few years as you gain experience, which means you have more idea of your likes and dislikes when you come to buy a boat.

I'd really like to emphasise the advice of Tranona above. Buy the boat in the best condition you can find, even if it costs you 5 or 10% more; it'll save you the difference pretty soon.

 

[mezereon]

If you're thinking of marina berths, take a close look at the charges for various lengths. The £ per metre is generally not a linear progression. It can be much much cheaper to be just under the boundary of a length category.
My approach was to buy a (relatively) cheap boat I could sail by myself. This way the financial exposure is limited without any need for 3rd parties for chartering / sharing. After several years (you may be quicker!) I had decided what I liked / didn't like about the boat it's mooring and everything else. I traded-up, but always had the easy option of just cashing-in and walking away.
Chartering will always be much cheaper, but I wouldn't swap.

 

[Ric]

I have had my 32ft boat for 12 years and have kept very detailed records of all spending.

My average spending on maintenance is €147 per month - this includes all annual lifting and anti-fouling, engine servicing and fixing all the other little things that go wrong.

By far the bigger cost is in making improvements (eg adding new sails, electronics etc) - but that is spending by choice rather than by necessity.

 

[RIBW]

The big advantage of using charter yachts for several seasons is that you get to find out features that suit you and your best enjoyment of time on the water. You will also recognise features that you will not tolerate.

When you finally decide that you will buy, you have a much better chance of buying something that will you will be very comfortable with and, just as important, who you really want to sail with and who will (reliably) accompany you. The latter will, partly, determine the size of yacht you buy.

Location, and hence cost, needs considerable thought. We settled on a longer distance drive which gave a greater choice of destinations. no overcrowding and plenty of scope for sailing when the weather would make offshore sailing unpleasant.

I did the calculations over and over for allowing our boat to be chartered. I agree with those above - it is not worth it!

I also agree with those above that advocate buying an example in tiptop condition. There are some marques where there appears to be a near-standard price for a given age but the condition can vary enormously. When you see a boat in a well kept condition you will know it.
Good Luck

 

[Bobc]

In your decision of whether to buy or rent, think about how you will use a boat.

If you are the type of person to pre-plan a week or weekend cruise long in advance, then renting is more cost-effective. The only downside is if you find the weather against you on your planned dates (making you either scrap the weekend and lose your money, or have a less-then-pleasant time of it).

If you are the sort of person (as I am) who looks at the weather forecast on a Friday evening and says "let's go sailing tomorrow", then you need to buy.

If you buy sensibly and can do most of the maintenance work yourself (which frankly is a good idea anyway), then the costs are not prohibitive.

When it comes to moorings, also consider how you will use the boat. A swinging/pile mooring is cheaper, but it makes it much less convenient to "go sailing for the day", than if the boat is in a marina.

Lots to consider, but take your time and get it right. A boatshare is also a good option for your first boat, as it not only keeps the costs down, but you will learn from the others in the syndicate. Take a look at the Yacht Fractions website for more info on sharing.

Good luck with it all. Whichever way to go, you'll enjoy it.

Bob

 

[onesea]

I think the other thing you need to consider is boat size. The costs of running a boat are often quoted in % of buying price. As boats get older this % can go up. Or just stay the same relative to the value of the boat new!

When it comes to use of the boat, if it is primarily just you consider a smaller boat. There are many on here who have much more fun with smaller boats than those with big. Less to repair less to spend money on more time to sail.

For 5-10k you can pick up some cracking boats. Learn allot and decide what you want in your next boat, there are many many different styles of sailing... There are some cracking boats for couples in the Sub 30 foot range. Westerly Centuer (ye olde worldy) Verl 27? is another idea..

The costs of boats is not linear compared to there length but more like cubic according to there length...

 

[Austerby]

I chartered for a long time before buying and got very familiar with various models between 35-46ft from Jeanneau, Benetau, Bavaria, Dufour, Hanse, etc.

When it came to buy I decided not to buy one of those types of boats as I didn't see the value in buying what I could readily charter.

I also didn't want to pay the price of such boats only to have them sitting in an expensive marina much of the time.

The other thing that helped was when my partner asked me what I was going to do with the boat.

Until I had an answer to this question I couldn't decide what boat I wanted to buy.

In the end I decided I wasn't going to get that much time to use the boat due to other demands on my time so I focused on boats suitable for short-handed day sailing in coastal areas with the odd week a year away. I wanted to do some cruiser racing and keep the boat close to home. This removed several much-desired boats but I thought there was no point in buying a blue water cruiser when I was realistically unlikely to spend much time offshore at all.

I ended up with an Achilles 24 - a much smaller and completely different boat than the type I chartered, and that has also cost me in 4 years ownership about the same as a south coast marina berth for a 36ft for a year, including initial purchase cost. It completely meets my requirements and I don't see changing it anytime soon.

I still occasionally charter a modern boat when I want a Solent weekend with friends.

 

[Halo]

Suggest you see if you can get a berth crewing on a club racing yacht for next season. You will really learn how to sail in all weathers and meet some interesting people.
There is life beyond the Solent and you may be able to enjoy more relaxed sailing (less like thick boat soup) join a local sialing club where people are often needing crew.
Buying a boat is one of the best things I ever did - but I enjoy working one her as well as sailing. If you not a practical person then charter
Go small rather than large - the amount of fun you have on a boat is inversely proportional to its size
Make sure it will be feasible to single hand her
Dont listen to the sales people - work out the best compromise for you (boats are all compromise)
Have a good look (and feel and smell) at her before you buy what just do it !

 

[Bobc]

Go small rather than large - the amount of fun you have on a boat is inversely proportional to its size

Not sure I agree with you on that statement. Each boat I've had has been bigger then the previous one, and each time I've had more fun and enjoyed it more than the previous one.

 

[Molteni]

Would it seem reasonable that buying a 30-35foot yacht in the £20-30k range and keeping it for say 10 years would cost the right side of £4k per year?

Swinging mooring , once a year lift-out and in, depreciation, insurance, repairs, maintenance etc.

 

[Malabar]

Suggest you need to work out where and how you are going to use the boat. No point in having an ocean greyhound if you are only going to day sail or spend the occasional overnight not too far away. Running costs between a 25ft boat and a 35 ft boat can be significant. Antifouling paint alone could be over £100 for a larger boat as opposed to £50 for a smaller cruiser. Cordage is expensive. There are plenty of very tidy, well-loved boats sub-30 ft around at around £20,000 or less. I have found that the more convenient it is to access your boat the more you use it. No point saving money by tucking it up on a swinging mooring 4 hours from home and 20 mins by tender from the car. Better to pay the extra for a berth where you can step on board any time of the year and enjoy your investment.