Thinking of buying a Steel boat - what to consider?

[rotrax]

I have a 1986 built - built by an enthusiastic amateur - corten Steel Hartley 32 which is in Wellington, NZ.

The Marina Manager emailed yesterday to say she had noticed a chaffed bow mooring line and sent a picture.

As we have not been able to get to NZ since we were repatriated in May2020, it was a relief to see 'Ella' in her berth much as we left her. Only sign of rust is around a non opening 10x6 inch roof light over the forepeak. That looks like it will dissapear with a bit of oxalic acid. Since we got her we have dealt with minor rust issues externally and one more serious one internally. Now all fixed and by the picture sent, still good.

A local boatbuilder looks after her for us. The previous caretaker let us down and moved to Oz. The new guy had her lifted, repaired two bits with Metal Glue-his name for welding- where the anodes had dissapeared and one small area of the bulb keel, again the nearby anode had gone. Not too surprised as the bit was on the bulb keel, the bulb being made of 9 steel gas cylinders with the ends removed welded end to end. The Kiwi's use whats to hand.....................................

Ella was a very cheap boat, we could take her out and sink her and not worry about the financial loss. But, a Kiwi we met in Newlyn is going to look at her now he is back in NZ with a view to making an offer. Ella still has lots of useful life ahead of her, I hope she goes to a good home.

I would not hesitate to have another steel boat, but the advice given by others is bang on. The problems start inside, and every inch must be inspected before purchase. I am handy and can do almost all boat maintenance. For me, the price would be an important part of the decision to buy.

If the OP needs a boat with long bunks and headroom, look at Island Packet.

 

[roaringgirl]

You need a good reason to want a steel boat, given the maintenance issues.

 

[GHA]

I have met several steel boat owners who regret their decision to buy one. Once they get to 25 years old they become a maintenance issue.
The guys in the yard next to us in Curacao in October had a 1990s professionally built, in Scotland, steel yacht. It had been around the world in the hands of the previous owners.
The couple who owned it now were welding holes up in the hull whilst we were there. They said every lift out seemed to involve the welder!
Boats have enough maintenance without worrying about the hull corroding.

Well, I blame western philosophy ??
It's instilled in our brains that the world is black and white and static, but the universe is dynamic and subjective. Things aren't inherently good or bad until someone thinks they are.
Steel isn't good or bad, it's down to the owners. The guy in that boatyard..., just been there done that & just spent forever (which was actually great, had a life for a while in a wonderful country) in a Portuguese yard patching some holes & changing the boat from the factory built bad design elements to something which should last me out.

IMHO a good home built steel boat has a good chance of being better thought out & designed/built than a factory one.
And it was all down to me, not knowing enough & spending too much time having fun while completely ignoring maintenance, but didn't know much better then.

Now I reckon very, very few steel boats are well built for the long term . Very, very few skippers are on top of their boats.

A few examples ...
- The interior should be easily dismantlable so you can get to all of the inside of the hull easily , and doing a bit of prep & paint isn't that big a deal and really doesn't take long. Little and often. If there's water sitting on a frame or stringer you should know about it.
- Nothing should be bolted through the deck or hull - it will rust, everything welded on.
- No wood should touch steel anywhere, it will rust.
Your responsibility, no point blaming the material or builders, down to you now.

Get that sorted and you're well down the road, stuff I repainted in Chaguaramas over a decade ago is still holding up just fine & shiny underneath where a bit needed ground off with no signs of corrosion.

Among the multitude of things changed on my boat to keep it low maintenance are hardly any holes left, mast sits on a stainless plate with welded studs, windlass sits the same. So deck has companionway, couple hatches, mast wires & pulpit nav light wires. Couple goosenecks above the lazerette. 4 seacocks & engine exhaust. That's all the holes between the outside & inside.
Everything sits on welded studs. Cleats, winches on a stainless plate. Lots little stainless tabs welded inside with M6 tapped hole so headlining can be off in no time, similar for the furniture. Load of work but that's they way it is.
And at last a tough as old boots go anywhere boat which won't leak. Ever. LX refurb means being able to weld (very thin rods & short tacks but still fantastically useful) at anchor.
One example of a big plus, dinghy on the foredeck was always a very real danger with being tied down to the toe rail, since the welder in paint was out it really did take about 15 minutes to weld on a few half stainless links to the deck at the edge of the dinghy, very low profile some 1mm kit dyneema soft shackles fit through.

None of that means steel is black and white any better or worse than other materials, the judgement only happens inside peoples heads.
But feeling rather good now that it's done & should not need to anything major again ever other than the constant little and often keeping an eye on things. Having a completely drip free boat forever really feels so good as well.
---
I

Interview with well known circumnavigation/author couple >
Interview With Beth Leonard And Evans Starzinger Of Hawk

"After a circumnavigation on a fiberglass boat why did you chose aluminum for Hawk?

B&E: Most people guess we chose metal for strength, as we planned to go to the high latitudes. But in fact we picked it because we could make the decks absolutely leak proof. Our experience with fiberglass decks was that after two or so ocean crossings the boat had worked enough that at least a few of the fasteners through the deck would start leaking. There are zero fastener holes through Hawk's deck. Everything is either welded on, or machine screwed to blind tapped plates that are welded on."

---
Steel isn't good or bad, just the vast majority of boats aren't designed with long term maintenance in mind. And vast majority of skippers don't know/don't bother. Thus the many rust streaked hulls round the world. And people pointing saying "see, told you steel was rubbish" .

The guy in that boatyard - that should not have come as a surprise, he should have known every bit of the inside of the hull. Factory build likely didn't do a good design job either. Previous skipper likely didn't know his boat inside out. His responsibility, he should have known. That comes with the territory.

But for most boats and most skippers, very likely not the best choice..... but someone that's up for it & doesn't mind the prospect of a load of work & learning to begin with to get it in a state suitable for years of globe girdling with a little constant maintenance - there are many advantages.

 

[geem]

Well, I blame western philosophy ??
It's instilled in our brains that the world is black and white and static, but the universe is dynamic and subjective. Things aren't inherently good or bad until someone thinks they are.
Steel isn't good or bad, it's down to the owners. The guy in that boatyard..., just been there done that & just spent forever (which was actually great, had a life for a while in a wonderful country) in a Portuguese yard patching some holes & changing the boat from the factory built bad design elements to something which should last me out.

IMHO a good home built steel boat has a good chance of being better thought out & designed/built than a factory one.
And it was all down to me, not knowing enough & spending too much time having fun while completely ignoring maintenance, but didn't know much better then.

Now I reckon very, very few steel boats are well built for the long term . Very, very few skippers are on top of their boats.

A few examples ...
- The interior should be easily dismantlable so you can get to all of the inside of the hull easily , and doing a bit of prep & paint isn't that big a deal and really doesn't take long. Little and often. If there's water sitting on a frame or stringer you should know about it.
- Nothing should be bolted through the deck or hull - it will rust, everything welded on.
- No wood should touch steel anywhere, it will rust.
Your responsibility, no point blaming the material or builders, down to you now.

Get that sorted and you're well down the road, stuff I repainted in Chaguaramas over a decade ago is still holding up just fine & shiny underneath where a bit needed ground off with no signs of corrosion.

Among the multitude of things changed on my boat to keep it low maintenance are hardly any holes left, mast sits on a stainless plate with welded studs, windlass sits the same. So deck has companionway, couple hatches, mast wires & pulpit nav light wires. Couple goosenecks above the lazerette. 4 seacocks & engine exhaust. That's all the holes between the outside & inside.
Everything sits on welded studs. Cleats, winches on a stainless plate. Lots little stainless tabs welded inside with M6 tapped hole so headlining can be off in no time, similar for the furniture. Load of work but that's they way it is.
And at last a tough as old boots go anywhere boat which won't leak. Ever. LX refurb means being able to weld (very thin rods & short tacks but still fantastically useful) at anchor.
One example of a big plus, dinghy on the foredeck was always a very real danger with being tied down to the toe rail, since the welder in paint was out it really did take about 15 minutes to weld on a few half stainless links to the deck at the edge of the dinghy, very low profile some 1mm kit dyneema soft shackles fit through.

None of that means steel is black and white any better or worse than other materials, the judgement only happens inside peoples heads.
But feeling rather good now that it's done & should not need to anything major again ever other than the constant little and often keeping an eye on things. Having a completely drip free boat forever really feels so good as well.
---
I
---
Steel isn't good or bad, just the vast majority of boats aren't designed with long term maintenance in mind. And vast majority of skippers don't know/don't bother. Thus the many rust streaked hulls round the world. And people pointing saying "see, told you steel was rubbish" .

The guy in that boatyard - that should not have come as a surprise, he should have known every bit of the inside of the hull. Factory build likely didn't do a good design job either. Previous skipper likely didn't know his boat inside out. His responsibility, he should have known. That comes with the territory.

But for most boats and most skippers, very likely not the best choice..... but someone that's up for it & doesn't mind the prospect of a load of work & learning to begin with to get it in a state suitable for years of globe girdling with a little constant maintenance - there are many advantages.

I know a couple who had a a steel hull built in Holland. They fitted it out. The reason they chose steel was they wanted to sailto the Artic and the Antarctic. They did that. It was a good choice for them since they had to deal with ice. GRP doesn't do so well in ice. I also met Trevor off iron Bark. He spent a winter iced in. Steel was a good choice for him. I think for those doing normal adventurous sailing, can easily do that with a well built GRP hull. Steel seems a step too far for me. We have enough time spent keeping a GRP boat ocean ready without the added hassle of worrying about the hull.
We just did a little 75nm trip from St Bart to Antigua, hard on the wind. Noticed today we must have hit something on passage as we have some paint chipped in the blue stripe just above the waterline. No issue. We will touch up next time we lift out but if it was steel it would be a pain in the arse. You can't just leave it. Ditto when we hit an unmarked wreck in Cuba. Keel had a deep score. We didn't need to lift out to deal with it. GRP is plenty durable if it built right. It hasn't got the ultimate strength of steel but I can live with that for the ease of living with the reduced maintenance

 

[westernman]

We didn't need to lift out to deal with it. GRP is plenty durable if it built right. It hasn't got the ultimate strength of steel but I can live with that for the ease of living with the reduced maintenance

Pound for pound GRP is stronger than steel.

 

[geem]

Pound for pound GRP is stronger than steel.

It's not that simple

 

[roaringgirl]

I know a couple who had a a steel hull built in Holland. They fitted it out. The reason they chose steel was they wanted to sailto the Artic and the Antarctic. They did that. It was a good choice for them since they had to deal with ice. GRP doesn't do so well in ice. I also met Trevor off iron Bark. He spent a winter iced in. Steel was a good choice for him. I think for those doing normal adventurous sailing, can easily do that with a well built GRP hull. Steel seems a step too far for me. We have enough time spent keeping a GRP boat ocean ready without the added hassle of worrying about the hull.
We just did a little 75nm trip from St Bart to Antigua, hard on the wind. Noticed today we must have hit something on passage as we have some paint chipped in the blue stripe just above the waterline. No issue. We will touch up next time we lift out but if it was steel it would be a pain in the arse. You can't just leave it. Ditto when we hit an unmarked wreck in Cuba. Keel had a deep score. We didn't need to lift out to deal with it. GRP is plenty durable if it built right. It hasn't got the ultimate strength of steel but I can live with that for the ease of living with the reduced maintenance

I know this is a can of worms, but a steel boat isn't inherently stronger than a GRP one. Our GRP hull is about 20mm thick.


Yield strain of mild steel: 250MPa
Yield strain of GRP: 200MPa

For a steel hull to be as strong as 20mm of fibreglass it would have to be around 16mm thick!

 

[arcot]

Reef.......rocks.... abrasion.......time

Equals hours or weeks.

 

[AndrewB]

The average life-span of a steel ship is 30 years, and it would be sensible to think in the same terms for a steel yacht. I owned one for many years and was very happy with it. With an epoxy finish, there were no special maintenance issues at all until 15 years, by 25 years de-rusting was becoming a burden, and I got rid of it at 30 years. Sandblasting throughout would have cost more than the yacht was worth.

A GRP yacht might still be good at that age, but then again, a comparable steel yacht initially cost me less. (After all, I don't buy a car expecting it to last indefinitely).

Despite some of the remarks in postings above, its strength for blue-water cruising was a real asset, particularly when I hit reefs, coral heads, sand banks etc. It's not that GRP is weaker but that there tend to be lines of weakness in GRP yachts e.g. the hull-keel joint. Also GRP crushes and loses its integrity, when steel dents but stays intact.

 

[roaringgirl]

The average life-span of a steel ship is 30 years, and it would be sensible to think in the same terms for a steel yacht. I owned one for many years and was very happy with it. With an epoxy finish, there were no special maintenance issues at all until 15 years, by 25 years de-rusting was becoming a burden, and I got rid of it at 30 years. Sandblasting throughout would have cost more than the yacht was worth.

A GRP yacht might still be good at that age, but then again, a comparable steel yacht initially cost me less. (After all, I don't buy a car expecting it to last indefinitely).

Despite some of the remarks in postings above, its strength for blue-water cruising was a real asset, particularly when I hit reefs, coral heads, sand banks etc. It's not that GRP is weaker but that there tend to be lines of weakness in GRP yachts e.g. the hull-keel joint. Also GRP crushes and loses its integrity, when steel dents but stays intact.

There's no hull-keel joint with an encapsulated keel! Our GRP boat is 45 years old and on her second circumnavigation.

 

[geem]

I know this is a can of worms, but a steel boat isn't inherently stronger than a GRP one. Our GRP hull is about 20mm thick.


Yield strain of mild steel: 250MPa
Yield strain of GRP: 200MPa

For a steel hull to be as strong as 20mm of fibreglass it would have to be around 16mm thick!

Strength is reality is not so straight forward. In an impact with a fairly blunt instrument steel doesn't yield.GRP does. If you saw the effects of hurricane Ivan in 2004 in Grenada you would appreciate this. Yachts in Caribbean boatyards are supported with three leg stands. When the stands move due to vibrations from the mast shaking everything and the boat falls over, the stands simply punch through the grp hull. We saw every conceivable boat manufacturer with stands punched through. Ben, Jen, Bav, Amel, HR,, Westerly, Moody. The steel boats had dents in the side. Some dents were huge but few penetrations. One hull looked ripped but that was a rarity.
Our own grp hull is 20mm thick in the bow. We got hit in 2019 by a 200 tonne motorboat. Did quite a bit if damage to our bow but no holes. If we hadn't got them apart as quick as we did we would have had a hole in the front. The huge stainless cleat on the stern of the motor yacht was going up and down our bow in the swell like a can opener grinding the grp to bits. I don't think this would have damaged a steel boat simply cos steel doesn't behave in the same way.

 

[geem]

The average life-span of a steel ship is 30 years, and it would be sensible to think in the same terms for a steel yacht. I owned one for many years and was very happy with it. With an epoxy finish, there were no special maintenance issues at all until 15 years, by 25 years de-rusting was becoming a burden, and I got rid of it at 30 years. Sandblasting throughout would have cost more than the yacht was worth.

A GRP yacht might still be good at that age, but then again, a comparable steel yacht initially cost me less. (After all, I don't buy a car expecting it to last indefinitely).

Despite some of the remarks in postings above, its strength for blue-water cruising was a real asset, particularly when I hit reefs, coral heads, sand banks etc. It's not that GRP is weaker but that there tend to be lines of weakness in GRP yachts e.g. the hull-keel joint. Also GRP crushes and loses its integrity, when steel dents but stays intact.

Their are grp boats and grp boats. Our lead encapsulated keel has over 50mm of grp on the bottom. 42 years old stiff and strong as ever. Airex cored hull with 6mm, 25mm, 6mm construction. We have put 35,000 nm on her in the last 10 years. A lot more to come

 

[roaringgirl]

Yes, steel can be deformed past its elastic limit, without yielding. GRP doesn't do this. Although the force required for it to yield is higher, all other things being equal. Although repairing a hole in a GRP boat punched by a stand is like toxic papier mache!

 

[GHB]

For anyone who is genuinely interested, a web forum really isn't the best place to get reliable info. like it or not we're big brained monkeys with guns and money who like to hang shiny metal round our necks..?
And very unreliable opinions of the outside world, most of forum traffic is people digging up whatever snippets there is on google or "I saw one and it was rusty" to back up their made up minds. Inc me. ?
Best I've found so far is metal boat repair & maintenance, guy has been involved building & cruising for decades. And has a very low opinion of forums as a reliable source of info ?
Easily useful enough to be worth a few quid on amazon

Metal boat maintenance-A do it yourself guide

 

[Bouba]

For anyone who is genuinely interested, a web forum really isn't the best place to get reliable info. like it or not we're big brained monkeys with guns and money who like to hang shiny metal round our necks..?
And very unreliable opinions of the outside world, most of forum traffic is people digging up whatever snippets there is on google or "I saw one and it was rusty" to back up their made up minds. Inc me. ?
Best I've found so far is metal boat repair & maintenance, guy has been involved building & cruising for decades. And has a very low opinion of forums as a reliable source of info ?
Easily useful enough to be worth a few quid on amazon

Metal boat maintenance-A do it yourself guide

There are two kinds of steel boat maintenance...the owner who knows what he is doing and can weld....and those that don’t and use epoxy filler. Make sure you buy your boat from the right owner

 

[Wansworth]

We had a steel boat as it was a cheap way to get a hull and deck these days a better way would be an older grp yacht.

 

[GHB]

There are two kinds of steel boat maintenance...the owner who knows what he is doing and can weld....and those that don’t and use epoxy filler. Make sure you buy your boat from the right owner

both are useful and have their uses, the world isn't black and white,,,,

 

[Bouba]

both are useful and have their uses, the world isn't black and white,,,,

And yet most steel boats are??

 

[AndrewB]

For anyone who is genuinely interested, a web forum really isn't the best place to get reliable info. like it or not we're big brained monkeys with guns and money who like to hang shiny metal round our necks..?
And very unreliable opinions of the outside world, most of forum traffic is people digging up whatever snippets there is on google or "I saw one and it was rusty" to back up their made up minds. Inc me. ?
Best I've found so far is metal boat repair & maintenance, guy has been involved building & cruising for decades. And has a very low opinion of forums as a reliable source of info ?
Easily useful enough to be worth a few quid on amazon

Don't under-rate this forum! There are some very experienced people here*, as well as me-too'ers. Over the 25 years I've been here I've learned to trust opinions, which so often show that there are many ways of tackling problems, some of which may work for you and some of which don't. That compared to "the book", written from a single perspective and usually trying to promote the author's own way of seeing things.

Actually books and forums serve different purposes. The plus of a book is that it gives a general overview. (I did find Ian Nicholson's "Small Steel Craft - Design, Construction and Maintenance" helpful when I first thought of buying a steel yacht). Where this forum comes into its own is in answering specific questions.

*P.S. Including ones who have written books of their own. I can think of three, two past and one present, who have written books specifically about steel and metal yachts.

 

[westernman]

Strength is reality is not so straight forward. In an impact with a fairly blunt instrument steel doesn't yield.GRP does. If you saw the effects of hurricane Ivan in 2004 in Grenada you would appreciate this. Yachts in Caribbean boatyards are supported with three leg stands. When the stands move due to vibrations from the mast shaking everything and the boat falls over, the stands simply punch through the grp hull. We saw every conceivable boat manufacturer with stands punched through. Ben, Jen, Bav, Amel, HR,, Westerly, Moody. The steel boats had dents in the side. Some dents were huge but few penetrations. One hull looked ripped but that was a rarity.
Our own grp hull is 20mm thick in the bow. We got hit in 2019 by a 200 tonne motorboat. Did quite a bit if damage to our bow but no holes. If we hadn't got them apart as quick as we did we would have had a hole in the front. The huge stainless cleat on the stern of the motor yacht was going up and down our bow in the swell like a can opener grinding the grp to bits. I don't think this would have damaged a steel boat simply cos steel doesn't behave in the same way.

Very few GRP boats are built with a layup which is thick enough to have the same weight per square metre as a steel boat.
I.e. they are built to be lighter.

So the comparison is much harder than looking what got broken after a hurricane. Almost all of those GRP boats will have been built to be lighter than a steel boat of the same size.

Would a steel hull stand up to a high powered rifle shot?
Mercedes Guardian cars will stand up to a high powered rifle shot. And what are they reinforced with? Carbon fibre and GRP!