Thinking about fitting a watermaker

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'm thinking about fitting a watermaker in my boat to make us more self sufficient at anchor. At present and particularly when we have profligate guests on board, we tend to have to scuttle back to a marina every 2-3 nights to fill up with water

At the time that my boat was built, Ferretti offered as options either a 120 lpm or 180 lpm watermaker made by Idromar http://www.idromar.tv/index.asp?2014-08-company-16474-EN. I suppose the easiest option for me would be to fit one of these Idromar watermakers in the same location as Ferretti would have used but I've got some questions

Are Idromar watermakers any good? What other makes should I consider?

Does a watermaker have to be located in the engine bay space? Could I fit it in the forward bilge for example where I have plenty of space?

When a manufacturer rates a unit at say, 120 lpm, does it actually produce that in practice?

What other things do I need to take account of? Does the unit have to be mounted at a higher level than the water tank? How many thru hull fittings does it need (2?). Could I tee off an existing seacock? Does it need to be covered by the auto fire extinguishing system?

Any advice appreciated

 

[jrudge]

I started this thread a while ago

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?420233-Water-makers&highlight=

I then bought ...
"

So just bought a HRO Seafari 900-2


http://www.hrosystems.com/sfv-contained/vsc-specs.php

Would I ever go against JFMs recommendation!

The UK agent is Fisher Panda ( I have a contact available by PM if needed) .

The list on this is £8166 + VAT, they offered it for 6533+vat and also added the Voyager pack ( fresh water flush, remote controls etc) at a good discount ( list : £790 + VAT)

For what is it, it is still a chunk of change, but the discount made it more palatable, and bought it in line with the cheaper brands. The USA on line price is $11500, so the discount seems genuine.
"

It works very well and it does indeed produce 140 lph.

You can put it where you like, but bear in mind it needs a clean (not disturbed when moving) water supply and the length of the hose form the skin fitting is recommended to be kept as short as practical in the installation guide.

You need a fitting in the bottom for intake and a fitting in the side for discharge. They say not to share a fitting but I suspect you could get away with it as long at the fitting was large.

It does not need to be fitted higher than the tank. Ours tees into the water tank pre the water pump and fills from there.

I fitted ours and after the seacock was fitted when it was lifted it took me a day + a few hours the second day to finally tidy up etc. Planning it takes as long as fitting it as you have bits of filters, power, tubing etc to run around the place.

I think they are great.

This last weekend a tap was left on. Tanks empty. Close tap, turn on water maker and about half an hour later was a back in business.

We hold 1000 lts and it just vanishes!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

So you did! I missed that thread. Thanks for the detailed info.

When you say it needs clean water, does that mean you can't operate it under way? I had a vision of powering a watermaker via an inverter whilst pootling along

How about the noise? There are several references on your previous thread to noise. How noisy is the 900-2?

Know what you mean about water. We have 1000 litres too and I have to grit my teeth whilst I listen to guests (not you, petem!) taking leisurely 15min showers. Sometimes I feel like just turning the water pump off whilst they're showering

 

[jrudge]

You can run it underway - but it needs to be "deep" so no air gets in. You were suggesting the forward bilge and that would ( in my view) risk air getting in.

With the generator running and it on you don't really notice - but when you open the engine room hatch you hear it. If you think of it as like having a second generator running that is probably a fair starting point. I suppose the thing is not that they are that noisy, but don't think they are silent. They all seems to say "wow ours is quiet" so i suppose it depends on what you are comparing it to!

Re inverter - this could happen but it takes a serious chunk of power and not sure about how practical that is. http://www.hrosystems.com/sfv-contained/vsc-specs.php

14 amps running and 47 start up. That is 3kw running which is 130 odd amps at 24v.

They are however very very useful.

We chose HRO as (a) JFM told me to! (b) it is fairline standard fit and (c) it was the only brand Essex were prepared to fit and support ( which is quite possibly linked to item (b)

It is relatively compact and seems to work well. The install manual is a but suspect but the phone support form the UK excellent ( there were some additional wires the manual did not mention!)

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

14 amps running and 47 start up. That is 3kw running which is 130 odd amps at 24v.

Mmm, yes I see what you mean. Gennie on then

We chose HRO as (a) JFM told me to! (b) it is fairline standard fit and (c) it was the only brand Essex were prepared to fit and support ( which is quite possibly linked to item (b)

Thats pretty much why I am looking at the standard Ferretti fit Idromar units as I would hope they could just tell me where the best place is to put it in my boat and how best to fit it

 

[jrudge]

They all come in two formats. A box / chassis with most of the bits hanging on it or a bag of bits you can spread around the boat to fit it whereever. The chassis all in one option is simpler to fit if you have the space for the box. ( which I did

The oem Fairline one uses the bits scattered all over the boat model which I am not a fan of.


I would buy by price and reputation. There seems to be duff brands out there that cause a lot of trouble. Seafari was well priced and had a decent reputation.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I would buy by price and reputation. There seems to be duff brands out there that cause a lot of trouble. Seafari was well priced and had a decent reputation.

Thanks, good advice

 

[jfm]

Hi mike. Yep they are lovely things. I agree all jrudge's comments. I've been on anchor several days and it's running now. I love the independence. I never worry about guest shower timings and we run dishwasher several times/day. WCs are fresh flush and that's a great reason never to run out of water when boat is busy. With a busy boat 1000 litre tank isn't enough IMHO . Also I like to run the boat on passage with 1/4 tank and make water close to arrival

They do not make spec output. In salty med in summer i get 220 from a nominal 280 machine. And are noisy like a 2nd genset so I doubt you want in fwd bilge. Engine room better

There are several good makes incl idromar and hro-seafari. So long as you get one of these good ones I expect you will be fine. I only have direct exp of hro seafari and am v pleased with them (I've only had 2)

 

[jrudge]

Interesting re not making the published rate. When I adjust the 850 psi high pressure ( could be wrong but I think that is it - well 850 something!) the bar on the water maker says exactly 140 lpm. I have of course not tried to actually measure the output so the gague maybe optimistic .. or it may simply be it is new and it will fall off once it is less shiny!

Watermakers rock!

 

[alant]

I'm thinking about fitting a watermaker in my boat to make us more self sufficient at anchor. At present and particularly when we have profligate guests on board, we tend to have to scuttle back to a marina every 2-3 nights to fill up with water

At the time that my boat was built, Ferretti offered as options either a 120 lpm or 180 lpm watermaker made by Idromar http://www.idromar.tv/index.asp?2014-08-company-16474-EN. I suppose the easiest option for me would be to fit one of these Idromar watermakers in the same location as Ferretti would have used but I've got some questions

Are Idromar watermakers any good? What other makes should I consider?

Does a watermaker have to be located in the engine bay space? Could I fit it in the forward bilge for example where I have plenty of space?

When a manufacturer rates a unit at say, 120 lpm, does it actually produce that in practice?

What other things do I need to take account of? Does the unit have to be mounted at a higher level than the water tank? How many thru hull fittings does it need (2?). Could I tee off an existing seacock? Does it need to be covered by the auto fire extinguishing system?

Any advice appreciated

Needs seawater free of any nasty contaminents, like oils/effluents, plus from memory should be continuously/regularly used.

 

[jrudge]

Yes, the manual warns of death and destruction if oil gets in. They sell a separator if this is likely ( not very likely I suspect a few m down and not run in a marina).

The HRO one allows for automated fresh water flush which is OK to leave it like that for some 4 weeks. So in effect this will get you through the season with pickling required when the boat is shut down for winter. This does not seem that tricky but it probably and hours worth ( you re circulate pickling fluid using a bucket so the flow and discharge go round and round for a while.). Not ideal but as a once a season job probably OK. You can install valves to make this simpler, but this (a) cost money - the valves were surprisingly expensive and (b) made install quite a bit harder as the valves needed to be supported on a bulkhead which led to hose routing issues that fell into the too hard bucket in my case. I may of course change my mind in October when I need to part take the thing to bits to pickle it!

 

[MYAG]

Good idea Mike and will massively change the way you use your boat and mellow you even more! As you know I couldn't/wouldnt boat without one, making +3t a day. Agree with all that's been said before regarding brands. I would put it in the engine room and nowhere else with the intake as low as possible to help prevent carp/oil being sucked up, waste water outlet above the waterline. You will need the Genset to run the watermaker. I went with an Idromar on the current boat because I liked the all s/s construction and the remote panel option which I installed in a cockpit locker for convenience, it has a fresh water flush too. Its a PoP to service/pickle yearly and filters are a few pounds, all takes 30 mins. I do about 1200hrs a year and replace the filters 2 or 3 times as they go black but that will depend on where you boat. My spec is 180lt/hr and directly after a service I have measured pretty much that in a salty E Med marina. This reduces as the season goes on but not by too much in my experience. I had an HRO on a previous boat and that was fine too. It will be cheaper to get it installed in Turkey!

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Thanks for the input chaps. Is 4 weeks the max time you should leave all watermakers between usages without pickling or do they vary? And what happens if you leave them say 6-8 weeks? Do they still work but produce less pure water or do they not work at all? I say this because I can't get to my boat every 4 weeks even during the season and of course I don't have crew to fire the thing up regularly

 

[MYAG]

Thanks for the input chaps. Is 4 weeks the max time you should leave all watermakers between usages without pickling or do they vary? And what happens if you leave them say 6-8 weeks? Do they still work but produce less pure water or do they not work at all? I say this because I can't get to my boat every 4 weeks even during the season and of course I don't have crew to fire the thing up regularly

4-6 weeks will be fine, I've left mine that long with no issues, just give it a fresh water flush before use. Not sure about 2 months or more, maybe worth a pickle and leave it in the system as it only takes 30mins max to do that. Its then a quick matter to run the system to waste for a couple of minutes to flush through and change filters when you return to the boat then you are good to go.

 

[BartW]

hi Mike, agree with all above,
we have the Idromar Junior, was installed by previous owner.
this model is 140l/hr, and this is ok for us, (our toilets except one are on seawater flush)
I'm pleased with this model, but no experience with another make.
In the beginning (first season) when using the machine I found it quite a hassle with the pressure adjustments, but apparently that's similar for all makes (?) and ones you're used to do it its easy.
Ours is fitted in the utility room, and makes a lot of noise down there, but not much more than the genny that has to run anyway.
I run it when on anchor or when pootling, never tried during planing speed
in the season, we run it every few day's / weeks, and out of season its off,
the pickling / recycling process is quite a faff with a 50l plastic tank and some hoses,
I have to take off the in and oulet hoses, and fit some short pieces to go in that tank,
I shoud add some extra taps, so that the process is more easy, but so many more things on the todo list.
I Croatia we couldn'd do without it, at least 2 of 3 days on ancher, and we're never frugal with the use of fresh water.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Thanks Bart. Another vote for Idromar

 

[jfm]

I've never pickled mine. Current one is 2 yrs old and been running fine all this week. I put it on weekly auto freshwater back flush when not in use and that's all. I change the filters at recommended intervals of course. The intake is aft end of e room,very close to keel so a metre below the surface, and it works fine at slow and fast (25kt) speed

 

[Asm]

JFM, could you please answer a couple of questions? Re the autoflush - Assuming your freshwater pump is DC, do you leave the master on, together with the pump supply or do you use the HRO to trigger a freshwater pump supply while the flush timer is running? Is it really a backflush or a forward rinse? Thanks

 

[jfm]

JFM, could you please answer a couple of questions? Re the autoflush - Assuming your freshwater pump is DC, do you leave the master on, together with the pump supply or do you use the HRO to trigger a freshwater pump supply while the flush timer is running? Is it really a backflush or a forward rinse? Thanks

Yes my freshwater pump is 24v DC and I leave it on all the time. I don't know the difference between back and forward in this context but I guess it is really a forward rinse where freshwater is pumped into the tube containing the membrane in a forward direction ie from the seawater side