There's six of the b*****

[ParaHandy]

There\'s six of the b*****

Coming home, heading NE well off St Catherines Pt wind ESE, early morning with some haze see 2 big ships about 6 miles away heading W in ship channel. Then another 4 come into view. They're spread to the south south east in a staggered pattern with the one furthest south (No 6) at the tail end and he's 9 miles or so away.

Tacking will bring Nos 4, 5 and 6 onto collision course. Heaving to will bring Nos 3 and possibly 4 onto collision course. Maintaining course will bring Nos 1 & 2 onto collision course.

I maintained a steady course and No 2 was forced to make a small course correction to the south to come behind me. By this time the engine was ticking over. No 1 went in front by quarter of a mile.

I've re whats-it'd in my mind over and over again. Would you have done any different?

 

[jimi]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

I think I'd have done the same as you're being predictable. In this situation a close quarters turn to starboard does'nt look attractive, although if made in sufficient time and big enough to be apparent is probably is a good course of action. Another alternative may be to bung on the dunk and increase speed.

I think these ships travel in batches as I've had a couple of crossings & seen vitually nothing and on others seem to have been in the marine equivalent of the Birmingham M6.




Jim

 

[Viking]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

Had this happen many times crossing the channel. I think you did the right thing. So the one ship had to change course slightly. I have found that in heavy weather disbite what other peoples experience, these ships have always given me space by slight changes in their course.
Once when crossing in company with other yachts, one yacht pick up a fish net on his prop. and with no wind had to be towed. One ship pick up our radio message and slowed almost to a stop, to lets pick up the tow and lets us cross.
Ive even seen them ships steam in the wrong direction in the 'lanes'. You should have heard the language on the radio.

 

[PhilipStapleton]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

In this scenario (under sail, ship approaching from starboard) you are the stand-on vessel. The ship should alter course to round your stern, so any action on your part (tacking, heaving to) would put you more firmly in his path ... BUT ... at what point do you decide he's either not seen you or is treating you as a powered vessel? I hate this situation, especially at night!

Starting the engine late makes it worse in theory - you then have the obligation to keep out of his way (via a turn to starboard, presumably), but unless you nip below and change the nav lights or hoist a cone(!!), he won't know your status has changed.

Possibly the safest thing is to wait until he's quite near, then turn to port (with the engine if necessary) and parallel his course until he's overtaken you or is clearly turning behind you.

Has anyone had any success getting on the radio in this situation - and if so, which channel (16 or 13?)

 

[jimi]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

Would'nt really wish to turn to port unless so close you're trying to minimise closing speed & impact! Rather than do that I'd do a 180 thus showing a dramatic change of aspect and then go behind the approaching vessel.



Jim

 

[iangrant]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

I've had this - it appears we a scared of them - I had one that kept turning and speeding up to pass ahead of me when I was stand on vessel just south of the IoW, I think he was scared of us! I had another load of fun in the "lane" three abreast three deep - west to East going motorway - passed clear of the bow of the first one - turned to starboard to run parallel with the second, passed behind and then again paralled the third before the next wad of 'em arrived. We got a wave from the bridge of a couple of them (more than 2 fingers) so I guess we got it right! One big fella changed course which surprised me. I can understand your concerns but we can only use our judgement at the time. The books only talk about one line of them!!

Ian

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

Thanks to both of you.

Merchant shipping does seem to bunch up in the channel? The same pattern recurs at night. Its russian roulette. Can't understand, with all that miles of empty sea, why they have to cuddle up together.

Assuming ships in the channel are unwilling to overtake they will bunch up to the speed of the slowest? Perhaps they do so because of the risk from ferries or other crossing traffic or it's easier to determine their intention if all at same speed. An analogy might be when I was driving along an American inter-state highway and passed 12 cars, each doing exactly the same speed of 50mph with about 4 car lengths between each. They were travelling at exactly the speed limit with cruise control. Mind you, one of the drivers had his feet up on the dashboard, another was very friendly with his passenger in the front seat and another was playing a game with the kids in the back......

 

[MikeKopman]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

I would generally try to avoid resorting to VHF or any other radio comms since it can cause misunderstandings especially with many ships about, an opinion shared by the MCA. Best to just stick to the rules, stand on if you are the stand on vessel, make your actions early, deliberate and obvious if you're not.

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

I tend to assume they have not seen you - if No 2 hadn't altered course to port, I would have gone to starboard (under engine) and paralleled his course and that would only have worked (because of proximity of No 3) if I'd been able to see the whites of No 2's eyes. I doubt however many times I cross the channel, I won't be scared stiff. Like you, I hate it.

I do think, though, at night they like to practice with their arpa (whatever their collision stuff is called) because more than once, an overtaking ship has got close enough for us all to be in the cocpit clutching white flares and ready to go.

I would like also to know whether the bridge to bridge channel is monitored because that would be the logical channel to use. Ch16 in the channel is v. busy - mainly seems to be traffic off Casquets TS with Joburg wanting to know who's doing such and such a speed at position X and course Y.

 

[incognito]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

Stand-on vessel?

Hmmm... 10(j) says crossing traffic shall not impede traffic in the lanes.
However, that doesn't mean you don't have normal rights, but if you think about it, it is pretty tricky for them to take you into account. Slowing down on their part means putting themselves in danger from the guy behind, deviating by how much? it is not too obvious to them how much they should deviate, you are a pretty awkward target.

I think you were lucky not to get crushed underfoot. I find that these mobs come along and you have to slow down, speed up, stop, go into reverse.. so as to time your passing through the beasties.

Most masters of big vessels think 10(j) mkes them the stand-on vessel.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Point of information. on TSS

Point of information.

I suspect the area being talked about is west of the Dover TSS and east of the Casquets TSS. Thereore, although shipping may be travelling in lanes, it's not doing so under the strict rules of a separation scheme.

Small consolation, I know, when you're hanging from his hawse hole.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

Done it differently - who knows, you've really got to play it how you see it at the time.

We had a similar (but not quite so intense!) situation in about the same place. Three ships, when first spotted apparently line abreast. As it they got closer it became apparent that one was fast, one was medium, one was slow (relative terms), so that one was overtaking two ships, one was overtaking and being overtaken, while slowcoach was being overtaken by two of the b*ggers. It made for some frantic work with the h/bearing compass before we understood what was what. By the time they got up to us, they were nicely sorted and pretty much in line astern which made life much easier.

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

It was between Dover & Casquet TSS.

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

getting brain in gear.....I do have a fair bit of gear which could be used to stack the odds more in my favour. I have one of those v. powerful lamps (only been used to find bank note at night) which could be used for signalling even in daylight.

Thanks, Ken.

 

[jamesjermain]

A sea change?

Is it just my recent experience which is unusual or has shipping in the Channel beome more alert and considerate of small craft?

On four occasions this summer (three during the recent Triangle Race), while sailing close to the ends of, but not in, TSS's, yet crossing at right angles etc, big ships made clear and decisive course changes to avoid me, once accelerating and passing ahead and thrice shaping to pass astern.

On each occasion I was on the point of altering myself to go astern and I am sure that in previous years I would have had to do so.

Anyone feel the same? If so what has caused the change of attitude - better ARPA radar, directives from the MCA etc, better officer training, better watch keeping? Or is it just coincidence?

After years of assuming it's up to me to taker avoiding action, the new situation is rather unnerving!

JJ

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: A sea change?

Hmmm...what about.......
a) HMG changed tonnage tax which is causing an unlikely (given years of decline) increase in British flagged tonnage. According to the MCA, the register has increased by 75% since 1998. Naturally Mr Stoney of MCA is claiming the credit. Nevertheless, I would assume that the standards required of and expected from a British flagged ship (thanks to the MCA) to be greater than one flagged in Liberia?
b) The Institute of Navigation publish "incidents" which helps everybody to understand each others perspective. Referring to a) again; a large number of incidents involve foreign flagged ships with officers who haven't a clue about col regs.
c) the gent (an Admiral I believe) who writes the MAIB reports and annual summaries is absolutely brilliant. I would believe that people are drawn to his work by the good sense of his words.

These two bodies (IoNav & MAIB) are quintessentially Brittish in attitude and outlook and are more effective in my view than a lot else that's happening today.

 

[jimi]

Re: A sea change?

Makes it even more like Russian Roulette then, you start to assume that there is a chance of being made way for so you're more likely to stand on! ie less bullets in the gun = higher probability of survival = greater risk of participation! Then you meet the constipated Liberian! Must admit I've had a few ships alter course but usually at closeish quarters .. or maybe thats just the one's where you can see the course alteration

I make the following assumptions

1) They have'nt seen me.
2) If they have they may ignore me
3) They are likely to turn to Starboard

Jim

 

[roger]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

On my last crossing about 5 days ago I had at least two ships and may be three alter course to avoid me. Unfortunately I couldnt read their names to ring up and thank them. No separation zones involved.
Goin the other way the legitimate traffic was being harassed by the navy with lots of messages on channel 16
"Please alter course 3 degrees to stbd."
"What is yor tonnage"
I think it was an exercise - presumably preparing for the Persian Gulf. We were buzzed by a helicopter three times.
Wisest was probably a fishing boat that took abslutely no notice of repeated VHF calls.

 

[iangrant]

Re: There\'s six of the b*****

The RN are scared stupid of other vessels especiallyyachts!

 

[Twister_Ken]

RNability.

There was a minesweeper coming into Portsmouth a couple of weekends back that was berated by QHM for not reporting its position and intentions. Call was responded to by a very radio-ineffective female. Thereafter the sweeper responded to no further calls from QHM, which caused him to warn other traffic about her (boat, not Wren). Would have liked to have been in the Admiral' office on Monday morning.