The time seems right to own boats again. Nicholson 32 or Liz 30 or 31?

[Gnasher]

Now seems like an amazingly affordable time to be a boat owner if you are OK with settling for an older style like narrow beamed 60's and 70's boats such at the Elizabethans and and Nicholson's . They seem such amazing value for money right now that its prompted me to get back into ownership.
I got out of the game 15 years ago and it seems a lot has changed. The long waiting lists for moorings on the South Coast around the Solent are no more and boats can be purchased at very very reasonable prices and even the cheaper club moorings seem to be more plentiful these days. The time just seems right again.

So now that Iv'e decided to take the plunge I need to decide which boat is for me. I used to own an Elizabethan 29 and I think they are good solid boats but this time round I'm interested in something a little bigger. Iv'e narrowed my search down to a Nicholson 32 , a Elizabethan 30 or perhaps a Elizabethan 31. I'd be interested to hear what you would choose and why ? Iv'e decided to set my budget at £11k but is it worth spending the extra on a Nicholson. Will I get more for my money ?

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

I had a Liz 30-great boat. Only sold her for a bigger boat. 6'2" son too long and beamy for any of the berths!
Very satisfying performance made sailing a pleasure.

 

[Tranona]

First of all recognise the reason for them being so "cheap". They are 40-50 years old and in recent years old boats like this have started to really show your age when the cost of maintaining them is out of proportion to their value. Don't imagine you are going to find those well cared for pristine boats that you might have seen 15 years ago.

So, be prepared to see a lot of manky old boats before with luck you find one that might be worth the modest amount of money you have available. Which of those designs you buy will probably be determined by what is worth buying rather than a positive choice.

 

[Poignard]

An old boat need not cost a lot to maintain; especially if you are able to do a lot of it yourself. Mine is 50 years old and a little shabby perhaps but everything works (apart from a bunk light) and she sails well and we enjoy living aboard her for 4-5 weeks at a time. Her maintenance costs, spread over the 20 years we have had her, have not been very high. She would probably sell for the same price at which we bought her.

 

[johnalison]

The only Nic 32 owner I know ended up having to replace the engine after a couple of years. This is clearly not specific to the marque, but it is an expense that many older craft will have hanging over them and which needs to be taken into account.

 

[GeorgeLlewellin]

I suggest the Vancouver 32 see the basic information here
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/vancouver-32/vancouver-32.htm

Mostly at £35,000 or thereabouts.

The cheapest on the page below is one of the early ones 1982 “Wild Otter” £26,000
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/category/type/Vancouver/32
“Wild Otter”
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1982/Vancouver-32-2877940/United-Kingdom

The most recent I have seen is the 27 years old the 1990 “Moala” @ £35,500
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1990/Vancouver-32-2501755/United-Kingdom

There is also the Vancouver 34 and Vancouver 34 Pilot and the 36, these are obviously better but are twice the price or more.

The Vancouver was originally designed for a trip from Vancouver Canada to Australia, it was such a successful design it went into production.

It has all the advantages of a long keel for passage making and because of the large opening for the propeller is efficient under power. Also the transom hung, partly balanced rudder is supported at the lower end by the extended keel that also protects the propeller. This configuration also makes them almost unique in long keel yachts, by being able to be easily manoeuvred while going astern. My brother had one for some time and I sailed with him a lot. They are now getting a bit long in the tooth, but they were very well built.

Good hunting, George

 

[Tranona]

I suggest the Vancouver 32 see the basic information here
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/vancouver-32/vancouver-32.htm

Mostly at £35,000 or thereabouts.

The cheapest on the page below is one of the early ones 1982 “Wild Otter” £26,000
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/category/type/Vancouver/32
“Wild Otter”
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1982/Vancouver-32-2877940/United-Kingdom

The most recent I have seen is the 27 years old the 1990 “Moala” @ £35,500
http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1990/Vancouver-32-2501755/United-Kingdom

There is also the Vancouver 34 and Vancouver 34 Pilot and the 36, these are obviously better but are twice the price or more.

The Vancouver was originally designed for a trip from Vancouver Canada to Australia, it was such a successful design it went into production.

It has all the advantages of a long keel for passage making and because of the large opening for the propeller is efficient under power. Also the transom hung, partly balanced rudder is supported at the lower end by the extended keel that also protects the propeller. This configuration also makes them almost unique in long keel yachts, by being able to be easily manoeuvred while going astern. My brother had one for some time and I sailed with him a lot. They are now getting a bit long in the tooth, but they were very well built.

Good hunting, George

Not a lot of help when the OP clearly states that his budget is £11k.

You could write similar glowing recommendations for all sorts of boats, but not a lot of use when the person asking the question can't afford (or does not want to afford) to buy one. A £26k Vancouver would likely need just as much work as a £10k Nic 32.

 

[eddystone]

Now seems like an amazingly affordable time to be a boat owner if you are OK with settling for an older style like narrow beamed 60's and 70's boats such at the Elizabethans and and Nicholson's . They seem such amazing value for money right now that its prompted me to get back into ownership.
I got out of the game 15 years ago and it seems a lot has changed. The long waiting lists for moorings on the South Coast around the Solent are no more and boats can be purchased at very very reasonable prices and even the cheaper club moorings seem to be more plentiful these days. The time just seems right again.

So now that Iv'e decided to take the plunge I need to decide which boat is for me. I used to own an Elizabethan 29 and I think they are good solid boats but this time round I'm interested in something a little bigger. Iv'e narrowed my search down to a Nicholson 32 , a Elizabethan 30 or perhaps a Elizabethan 31. I'd be interested to hear what you would choose and why ? Iv'e decided to set my budget at £11k but is it worth spending the extra on a Nicholson. Will I get more for my money ?

Even if you pay significantly more than £11K for a Nic32 or similar, you could easily have to shell out the same amount again or more just to maintain "as is" in a reasonable efficient state of maintenance. Think of the purchase price as an entry fee!

 

[Kukri]

Now seems like an amazingly affordable time to be a boat owner if you are OK with settling for an older style like narrow beamed 60's and 70's boats such at the Elizabethans and and Nicholson's . They seem such amazing value for money right now that its prompted me to get back into ownership.
I got out of the game 15 years ago and it seems a lot has changed. The long waiting lists for moorings on the South Coast around the Solent are no more and boats can be purchased at very very reasonable prices and even the cheaper club moorings seem to be more plentiful these days. The time just seems right again.

So now that Iv'e decided to take the plunge I need to decide which boat is for me. I used to own an Elizabethan 29 and I think they are good solid boats but this time round I'm interested in something a little bigger. Iv'e narrowed my search down to a Nicholson 32 , a Elizabethan 30 or perhaps a Elizabethan 31. I'd be interested to hear what you would choose and why ? Iv'e decided to set my budget at £11k but is it worth spending the extra on a Nicholson. Will I get more for my money ?

I think the specific answer to the rather precise question asked is - it depends on two things, both of which you already know - firstly, how well the boat has been looked after and secondly, how much of a hurry to sell the owner is in. There was a nice 31 in these parts that went for well under your budget because the owner had just taken delivery of something bigger and was in a screaming hurry...

In favour of the Elizabethans is that you know them well. I doubt if any reputed differences in build quality matter at this age, and the Nic 32 may be getting a premium for the name.

 

[Balbas]

I was idly looking at Elizabethans a couple of weeks ago. Always loved them, am starting to think about buying our first yacht to use as a safe family boat.

There was (probably still is) what on the face of it looks to be a beautifully maintained and sympathetically updated Elizabethan 31 lying in Plymouth for about £10k. I've no involvement in the boat - don't know the owners or anything, but it seems to fit your brief.

http://yachts.apolloduck.com/advert.phtml?id=502768

 

[steve yates]

I was idly looking at Elizabethans a couple of weeks ago. Always loved them, am starting to think about buying our first yacht to use as a safe family boat.

There was (probably still is) what on the face of it looks to be a beautifully maintained and sympathetically updated Elizabethan 31 lying in Plymouth for about £10k. I've no involvement in the boat - don't know the owners or anything, but it seems to fit your brief.

http://yachts.apolloduck.com/advert.phtml?id=502768

Which would appear to be contrary to tranona and eddystones views?

That boat would appear to be all you need, and if standing rigging and sails replaced, at around 5k, there would not be much else required etc some cosmetic changes to suit yourself.

 

[Tranona]

Maybe or maybe not. Looks good on paper but you still have to see it for real.

It does always depend on the standard you are prepared to accept and the problem with these niche old boats is they look attractive but people imagine them as they were in their hayday and objects of desire, but 20 or 30 years on.....

 

[Kukri]

Maybe or maybe not. Looks good on paper but you still have to see it for real.

It does always depend on the standard you are prepared to accept and the problem with these niche old boats is they look attractive but people imagine them as they were in their hayday and objects of desire, but 20 or 30 years on.....

Elizabethans do seem to be in the bargain basement - I don't know why, but it may be that the "brand name" is less well known. As noted above I saw a nice one go for a very silly price.

 

[steve yates]

Maybe or maybe not. Looks good on paper but you still have to see it for real.

It does always depend on the standard you are prepared to accept and the problem with these niche old boats is they look attractive but people imagine them as they were in their hayday and objects of desire, but 20 or 30 years on.....

True, I have seen some that were just outright lies on paper

 

[Straightman21]

Take no notice of the naysayers Gnasher, there's many a good tune played on an old fiddle.
Whilst £11k is at the bottom end of the scale, providing you don't need or want all the seemingly vital bits and pieces that adorn your AWB these days, you can find a suitable boat if you have some patience. It is also the case that you need to do a bit more work than if you were in a position to buy an aforementioned shiny modern example, as my experience has been that brokers just don't bother to make any effort to sell cheaper examples. In fact I failed to get a response from a number of brokers when making enquiries for an older and cheaper vessel. In the end I bought a Nic 32, with a nearly new engine and gearbox, a set of lightly used sails and having had the standing rigging replaced a few years ago for not a great deal more than your target price. The survey showed that she was as solid as a rock top and bottom and compared to some more modern yachts that I've sailed, she gives one a feeling of confidence and comfort absent in some more modern and lighter designs. Admittedly, I am not going to be able to host a dance party in the cockpit, and I am not for a moment criticising those with a design of vessel that permits that activity but as ever with choices, you pays your money........................
Of course if you want the latest and vast array of technology, all integrated via wifi and available everywhere from the wheel to the Heads then that comes at a price whereas that old fashioned paper stuff and a cheap GPS is sufficient to avoid the solid stuff.
So price the real cost of any apparently cheaper vessel carefully and have a good survey done but the joy of sailing is still thankfully not directly related to the amount of cash you throw at it.

 

[Kukri]

+1.

 

[wotayottie]

First of all recognise the reason for them being so "cheap". They are 40-50 years old and in recent years old boats like this have started to really show your age when the cost of maintaining them is out of proportion to their value. Don't imagine you are going to find those well cared for pristine boats that you might have seen 15 years ago.

So, be prepared to see a lot of manky old boats before with luck you find one that might be worth the modest amount of money you have available. Which of those designs you buy will probably be determined by what is worth buying rather than a positive choice.

very valid points. For some reason people assume that things like aluminium masts and winches and tanks etc lawst for ever. They dont. At 50 years old, things that havent been replaced are knackered or near so. Interior fittings will be old and tired as will be the woodwork. Sure you may luck out and find an 11k boat on which the previous owner has spent 20k bringing up to scratch but those are rare.

We have had to scrap a few boats of this age at our club. Not only were they unsaleable - we couldnt even give them away free gratis!

 

[Kukri]

very valid points. For some reason people assume that things like aluminium masts and winches and tanks etc lawst for ever. They dont. At 50 years old, things that havent been replaced are knackered or near so. Interior fittings will be old and tired as will be the woodwork. Sure you may luck out and find an 11k boat on which the previous owner has spent 20k bringing up to scratch but those are rare.

We have had to scrap a few boats of this age at our club. Not only were they unsaleable - we couldnt even give them away free gratis!

Just to put this thread into perspective... (lifted from Burgundyben's thread in the Classic forum...)

https://www.sweeney-kincaid.com/Sale...px?SaleId=3112