The Swinge?

[ss2016]

We are sailors who because of advancing years have come to the darkside with a Sargo 31. For the last 4 summers we have been exploring Brittany and Guernsey. Now, on our outward journey, crossing the Channel from Salcombe we would like to visit Aldernay. That bit is easy. However, after Aldernay we would like to head for Beaucette or St PP. Planning this is making me wonder if I really want to. So these are the issues I see but would really like advice from those who have done it. The constraints I see are these:
- Guernsey has sills. Beaucette is open HW plus minus 3. St PP not dissimilar. I do not want to arrive shortly before they close and do not want to sit on a waiting pontoon for 6hrs.
- The tide runs SW from HW +2.5 to LW +2.5
- Advice for the Swinge is hit it HW+2.5 or LW+2.5

So my questions:
1) Have I got it right so far?
2) Would going on the SE side of Aldernay reduce the problem. Its further and I presume that is the Aldernay Race and equally uncomfortable?
3) a)Would arriving at the Swinge at LW +1.5 (an hour early) give us a reasonable ride? If we could do this we would have perhaps a bit of adverse tide perhaps at the end of the journey but would arrive Beaucette towards the time the sill opened.
b)Would springs .v. neaps make much difference?
c) I presume changing the plan Bray to Carteret would present all the same issues?

We will only do this in reasonably calm weather of course, but I would welcome others experience. And before I go, yes we could reverse our journey and make life easy, but that is not the plan.

We have plenty of power but I am assuming much of this will be a 7Kt journey, not our normal 22.

 

[[70521]]

I only done the Swinge in a sailing boat at three knots during slack low water. A pleasant and non-live threatening ride.

Have a great trip, we visited the then Vicar of Sark for high tea.

 

[Elessar]

We are sailors who because of advancing years have come to the darkside with a Sargo 31. For the last 4 summers we have been exploring Brittany and Guernsey. Now, on our outward journey, crossing the Channel from Salcombe we would like to visit Aldernay. That bit is easy. However, after Aldernay we would like to head for Beaucette or St PP. Planning this is making me wonder if I really want to. So these are the issues I see but would really like advice from those who have done it. The constraints I see are these:
- Guernsey has sills. Beaucette is open HW plus minus 3. St PP not dissimilar. I do not want to arrive shortly before they close and do not want to sit on a waiting pontoon for 6hrs.
- The tide runs SW from HW +2.5 to LW +2.5
- Advice for the Swinge is hit it HW+2.5 or LW+2.5

So my questions:
1) Have I got it right so far?
2) Would going on the SE side of Aldernay reduce the problem. Its further and I presume that is the Aldernay Race and equally uncomfortable?
3) a)Would arriving at the Swinge at LW +1.5 (an hour early) give us a reasonable ride? If we could do this we would have perhaps a bit of adverse tide perhaps at the end of the journey but would arrive Beaucette towards the time the sill opened.
b)Would springs .v. neaps make much difference?
c) I presume changing the plan Bray to Carteret would present all the same issues?

We will only do this in reasonably calm weather of course, but I would welcome others experience. And before I go, yes we could reverse our journey and make life easy, but that is not the plan.

We have plenty of power but I am assuming much of this will be a 7Kt journey, not our normal 22.

St Peter port pontoons outside the inner basin are now walk ashore. They are far better than a waiting pontoon they are a marina in their own right really and many boats spend their whole time there and don’t go inside the harbour at all.

 

[ss2016]

The fact that the waiting pontoons are walk ashore is certainly a useful bit of information and actually simplifies the planning a little. Thank you.
Any takers for the main subject, The Swinge?

 

[Ribtecer]

Never been thru it, always preferred the race.

Been thru the race on sailing boats and motor boats, once in a Sago 33. Amazing and wonderful boat.

 

[Boathook]

St Peter port pontoons outside the inner basin are now walk ashore. They are far better than a waiting pontoon they are a marina in their own right really and many boats spend their whole time there and don’t go inside the harbour at all.

I prefer the pontoons outside as you aren't constrained by the sill. One downside of them is no electrics and you may end up rafting.

 

[Boathook]

The fact that the waiting pontoons are walk ashore is certainly a useful bit of information and actually simplifies the planning a little. Thank you.
Any takers for the main subject, The Swinge?

I have a sailing boat so have to go with the tidal flow through the swinge, otherwise I wont be going anywhere for quite a few hours !

 

[riverteign]

I always aim to go through the Swinge at slack water, low or high. If you can't do that, then it depends on the wind as you get nasty overfalls with wind against tide.

 

[Pleinmont]

If you plan the whole journey between Alderney and Guernsey to take place within the 2hr window around slack then you should be ok (1h either side of mid tide) - esp as you're in a decent fast boat.
From memory that's what I've done in the past. I'd leave Alderney 2.5hrs down from HW once the run is mostly slackened off, then arrive near Guernsey at the back end of slack as it then flows south in the Russel (takes me about 90mins).
You can reverse it for slack on the flood and reverse the plan for going back up North on the return.

Aim to cross the Swinge during slack water and if the wind is less than F3-4 against what remains of the tide, you probably won't notice much drama in a 30ft+ Sargo.
Same with the Race. Just don't plan to hit either of them when the tide is running (esp if the wind is against, game over).
Neaps over springs if you can get them!
Never done the Race but similar situation I would expect.

Even if the overfalls are still present they shouldn't be tumbling as long as it's a pleasant day - the worst will be over a mile or so south of Alderney then you'll be in open water till you hit the north coast of Guernsey.
The top end of the Little Russel at the North end of Guernsey in any opposing wind when the tide is running can also be pretty unpleasant when the tide is running but again you'll be there before it's really running.

Yes SPP Harbour has pontoons outside and inside the marina all walk ashore (I recall the outer walkway gets removed towards the end of September)

 

[DAKA]

We are sailors who because of advancing years have come to the darkside with a Sargo 31. For the last 4 summers we have been exploring Brittany and Guernsey. Now, on our outward journey, crossing the Channel from Salcombe we would like to visit Aldernay. That bit is easy. However, after Aldernay we would like to head for Beaucette or St PP. Planning this is making me wonder if I really want to. So these are the issues I see but would really like advice from those who have done it. The constraints I see are these:
- Guernsey has sills. Beaucette is open HW plus minus 3. St PP not dissimilar. I do not want to arrive shortly before they close and do not want to sit on a waiting pontoon for 6hrs.
- The tide runs SW from HW +2.5 to LW +2.5
- Advice for the Swinge is hit it HW+2.5 or LW+2.5

So my questions:
1) Have I got it right so far?
2) Would going on the SE side of Aldernay reduce the problem. Its further and I presume that is the Aldernay Race and equally uncomfortable?
3) a)Would arriving at the Swinge at LW +1.5 (an hour early) give us a reasonable ride? If we could do this we would have perhaps a bit of adverse tide perhaps at the end of the journey but would arrive Beaucette towards the time the sill opened.
b)Would springs .v. neaps make much difference?
c) I presume changing the plan Bray to Carteret would present all the same issues?

We will only do this in reasonably calm weather of course, but I would welcome others experience. And before I go, yes we could reverse our journey and make life easy, but that is not the plan.

We have plenty of power but I am assuming much of this will be a 7Kt journey, not our normal 22.

I have used the Alderney race loads of times and never had a problem

I have used the swinge once and never again

It is so narrow and so full of sailing boats drifting along at 3 knots you just have to drift along with them , it was so boring at wash free speed compared with 24 knots log plus 5 knots push in the race

Agree with other comments on outside pontoons at St Peter port or waiting bouys outside beaucette.

Sometimes we have arrived early and anchored off Herm (shell bay) and had a beach day before going into beaucette

 

[ss2016]

If you plan the whole journey between Alderney and Guernsey to take place within the 2hr window around slack then you should be ok (1h either side of mid tide) - esp as you're in a decent fast boat.
From memory that's what I've done in the past. I'd leave Alderney 2.5hrs down from HW once the run is mostly slackened off, then arrive near Guernsey at the back end of slack as it then flows south in the Russel (takes me about 90mins).
You can reverse it for slack on the flood and reverse the plan for going back up North on the return.

Aim to cross the Swinge during slack water and if the wind is less than F3-4 against what remains of the tide, you probably won't notice much drama in a 30ft+ Sargo.
Same with the Race. Just don't plan to hit either of them when the tide is running (esp if the wind is against, game over).
Neaps over springs if you can get them!
Never done the Race but similar situation I would expect.

Even if the overfalls are still present they shouldn't be tumbling as long as it's a pleasant day - the worst will be over a mile or so south of Alderney then you'll be in open water till you hit the north coast of Guernsey.
The top end of the Little Russel at the North end of Guernsey in any opposing wind when the tide is running can also be pretty unpleasant when the tide is running but again you'll be there before it's really running.

Yes SPP Harbour has pontoons outside and inside the marina all walk ashore (I recall the outer walkway gets removed towards the end of September)

Thanks, that is really helpful

 

[trialframe]

We've been through the Swinge many times over the years and never had a problem.
My advice would be to transit it at exactly the time slot recommended in the pilot books on a day with fairly benign weather conditions.
Make everything else fall into place around that and you'll have a pleasant experience.

 

[Pleinmont]

Thanks, that is really helpful

No worries, hope the trip goes well.
Agree with Trialframe above - plan it as per the recommendations in the books, do it on a calm day, don't change your plans and all will be fine

 

[dslittle]

We’ve been through the Swinge on a number of occasions in our sailing boat. Only once have we had any discomfort and that was because I (unwisely) diverted across to look at the puffins of Burhou (whilst observing the caution required not to disturb them!).

As stated above, follow the timings in the pilotage books and you’ll be fine. In my opinion, it will be worth it as Beaucette is a great experience.

Make sure that you call up before you attempt entry and Rick (if he’s still there) will come out and reassure you as you head towards a granite wall with no sign of escape…

 

[Keith-i]

Both the Swinge and the Race are lively in wind over tide, especially at full flood or ebb. Aim for a slack water departure from Braye on a falling tide and you will be fine and also benefit from a good few knots to help you on your way. We came through the Race at the weekend on a trip to Jersey and gained 6 kts at one point in our 32ft mobo. Avoid anything above a F3 if it’s wind against tide and you’ll be fine for the mile or two it takes to pass through.

 

[jfm]

I have done Alderney race many times, and have never bothered with the swinge.

If there is little wind (say <8 knots), it doesn't matter what the tide is doing in a motor boat, unless you care about the delay of a foul tide. If there is more wind make sure you time your trip so that you have wind-with-tide not wind-against-tide, regardless of whether that gives you a fair or foul tide. Obviously spring tides run 2x faster than neaps so you need to avoid wind-against-tide even more then.

The whirlpools themselves are not significant in a 31 ft fast motorboat.

Entrance/walk ashore in St PP is as described above. By the way you can walk ashore in St Helier at any state of tide. The two marinas have sills but there are plenty of berths inside the sheltered harbour but outside the sills