The sink conundrum

[DenningLJ]

I've recently bought my first ever boat, a Seawych 19 and I have /literally/ no idea what the hell I'm doing so I'll also use this post to apologise for stupid questions I'll ask now and in the future.

The boat needs a bit of work doing to it (although structurally it's fine) including sorting the electrics out and connecting things like the depth finder or buying a new radio...however.... my current question is about the waste pipe on the sink.

It looks like a previous owner has cobbled together a long tube and used hose clamps to attach it to the bottom of the sink and to the bottom of the boat. Due to the length of the tube, it kinks which prevents proper drainage and makes the sink basically a bit ornamental. The solution I thought was to take the tube off, cut it down and reattach, simple right? Well when I tried that, I very quickly realised that it is literally a hole in the boat and discovered this when the river started flooding in.

So... any ideas?

Cheers!

 

[ghostlymoron]

Have you got proper skin fitting?
Where is the water coming in?
Is the sink above heeled water level?
VicS will probably know the answer - he's got one.

 

[DenningLJ]

The sink itself is built into the little step as you step into the cabin and the connectors top and bottom seem to be in tact. The water flooded in from the hole at the bottom that the tube is attached to and I'm guessing the heeled water level is the water level outside the boat? If it is, the sink is above it but the pipe just leads to the bottom of the boat.

 

[prv]

Bit of a problem you've got there.

Such "holes in the bottom of the boat" should always have a valve on them, which you can close and then change the hose in perfect safety. The whole assembly is then known as a seacock. But either your boat was built without them, or your previous bodger took it off. At the moment, the only thing stopping your boat from sinking is that rather manky-looking piece of hose.

You really need to get the boat out of the water so that you can fix it. I think these are bilge-keeled, aren't they? So you could find somewhere to dry out at low tide - except that you mentioned a river. Are you inland without any tidal rise and fall?

Your options for fixing it are:

1) Cut the existing hose to the correct length, starting from the bottom. As long as you hold the open end above the waterline, nothing will come in. Budget option, you're still trusting your boat to some very dodgy looking pipe. Not recommended.
2) Get the boat out the water somehow, replace the pipe with the correct length of reinforced hose. Bit better than the above, and keeping a wooden bung to hand will partly compensate for the lack of valve, but if you've gone to the effort of drying out then you might as well do the job properly.
3) Screw a new ball valve onto the existing fitting. A good result if it works, but the existing fitting is a bit of an unknown quantity and you don't want to find yourself with the water rising around you and a valve that won't screw into position.
4) Replace the whole lot with a new valve and skin fitting. Getting the old fitting out can be hard work, but you can pretty much guarantee an effective fix at the end. Will take longer than the option-3-with-no-problems-found case - probably still well within a tide but might be a bit stressful for your first one.

The ideal would be to haul out onto dry land and take your time to do option 3 or 4 depending on the state of the existing skin fitting. You're not going to die instantly if you do option 2, although it will make some people here very uncomfortable!

Pete

 

[sailorman]

you need a seacock for the drain fitted to that skin fitting with possibly a hand pump to enable the sink to be emptied without water coming back up into the sink when heeled over. we had that system on our Contessa 32

 

[DenningLJ]

Ha, awesome, I'm renaming it Deathtrap.

 

[DenningLJ]

So, because the hole for the fitting is already there, how long do you think it would take to install the seacock? I'm on mud for about 2/3 hours a day, is that enough time to just screw and seal it or is this something that will generally take a while to do.

 

[pmagowan]

Remove it entirely and use a washing up bowl. Thats what we did on a 28' boat and it is far easier to manage and takes up far less space. The 'tap' is simply a bottle of water.

 

[prv]

So, because the hole for the fitting is already there, how long do you think it would take to install the seacock? I'm on mud for about 2/3 hours a day, is that enough time to just screw and seal it or is this something that will generally take a while to do.

If you're replacing the whole lot, you usually need to attack it from the outside. In theory you would just unscrew the nut on the inside and it would drop out, but they're invariably corroded into place and you need to cut off the outer flange with a hole-saw (some people prefer an angle-grinder). If you're moored on mud then probably better to take the boat over to a hard or a beach somewhere rather than lying on your back in the sludge . If you say where you are, someone local can probably suggest a good place. Then you just put some sealant on the flange of the new fitting (I use sikaflex, other people have their own preferences), poke it through the hole from the outside, and screw the nut down. I like to leave it for a few days at this point to let the sealant set before nipping it up the final amount, but you won't be able to do this if dried out on the tide. It probably doesn't really matter. Then wind on a couple of turns of teflon tape and screw the valve on the end. From that point on you're safe because you can close the valve, fit everything after that point when it suits.

Installing the new stuff should take ten minutes max, especially since you seem to have pretty good access on the inside. Cutting out the old one is a bit of an unknown, but with power tools I can't imagine more than half an hour?

Pete

 

[Tranona]

The original - I built one - just had a straight hose to a skin fitting, but ideally should have had a seacock.

You could shorten that hose and refix it to the sink so there is no kink and the sink will drain OK. You could fit a seacock while the boat is sitting on the mud, but you need to be sure of the size and that you can remove the existing tail without disturbing the skin fitting. Better to do that job when the boat is out of the water then you can take the whole fitting out and replace it. Make sure your new fittings and valve are DZR, not ordinary domestic plumbing fittings.

In the meantime you can leave it as it is. The boat won't sink but you won't be able to drain the sunk unless you shorten the pipe to remove the kink.

 

[prv]

I've had a closer look at the picture, and I reckon there's every chance that you can just screw a new ball valve onto the existing fitting. No point making work for yourself by cutting it out if you don't need to.

So the first step is to measure the threaded part of the fitting, below where the hose is attached. That will tell you what size ball valve to buy. They come in imperial sizes ("BSP") and the dimensions are a bit eccentric - take your measurement and then see which row in this table best fits the "Thread major diameter" column: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Standard_Pipe#Pipe_thread_sizes . The size you want is then in the "BSP Size (in)" column - it's probably 3/4" or 1" at a guess.

ASAP Supplies sell decent valves online - you want DZR ones rather than brass as brass eventually corrodes in seawater. You will probably also need a matching hose tail to fit into the other side of the valve. The BSP sizes are the same, just get a 1" tail for a 1" valve, etc. There will probably be a choice of hose sizes for each thread size too - get whatever suits the hose you're using.

Then on your mooring when the water is away, you can remove the hose, unscrew the female hose tail which I think I see in the picture, and screw the valve and new male hose tail on instead. A couple of turns of teflon tape will help you get it tight enough to seal.

It would be worth having some kind of bung on board when you do the job just in case of unexpected catastrophe - perhaps the existing fitting turns out to be knackered and crumbles in your hand leaving a hole in the boat and nothing to screw onto. Very unlikely, but you'd feel a bit of a dick not to be ready for it

Pete

 

[VicS]

I've recently bought my first ever boat, a Seawych 19 and I have /literally/ no idea what the hell I'm doing so I'll also use this post to apologise for stupid questions I'll ask now and in the future.

The boat needs a bit of work doing to it (although structurally it's fine) including sorting the electrics out and connecting things like the depth finder or buying a new radio...however.... my current question is about the waste pipe on the sink.

It looks like a previous owner has cobbled together a long tube and used hose clamps to attach it to the bottom of the sink and to the bottom of the boat. Due to the length of the tube, it kinks which prevents proper drainage and makes the sink basically a bit ornamental. The solution I thought was to take the tube off, cut it down and reattach, simple right? Well when I tried that, I very quickly realised that it is literally a hole in the boat and discovered this when the river started flooding in.

So... any ideas?

Cheers!

First priority Joint the Sea Wych Owners Association. There is a link to the website with all the details in my signature.

You will then have access to all the support you need via the members forum, a comprehensive owners manual and direct access to a group of "technical advisors" as well as a programme of social and sailing events. The SE area coordinator, who still owns the boat he built, actually lives in Maidstone.

The boat was originally designed, and usually built, with a direct connection from the sink drain to a plastic skin fitting. The hose should go almost direct from one to the other. The only change I have made is to fit a reinforced hose in place of the original thin walled stuff.
I have no idea why yours has that long kinked loop.

If you wish you could fit a seacock ( ball valve ) perhaps sensible if you were going ocean voyaging but in 36 years I have had no reason to want to do so.
A few people have fitted a pumped discharge to a skin fitting above the water line. An unnecessary complication IMHO.

The sink is always well above the water line so never any fear of flooding via that route.
I dont understand why you had water flooding in unless the skin fitting is defective.

What is the name/ sail number of your boat?

 

[DenningLJ]

First priority Joint the Sea Wych Owners Association. There is a link to the website with all the details in my signature.

You will then have access to all the support you need via the members forum, a comprehensive owners manual and direct access to a group of "technical advisors" as well as a programme of social and sailing events. The SE area coordinator, who still owns the boat he built, actually lives in Maidstone.

The boat was originally designed, and usually built, with a direct connection from the sink drain to a plastic skin fitting. The hose should go almost direct from one to the other. The only change I have made is to fit a reinforced hose in place of the original thin walled stuff.
I have no idea why yours has that long kinked loop.

If you wish you could fit a seacock ( ball valve ) perhaps sensible if you were going ocean voyaging but in 36 years I have had no reason to want to do so.
A few people have fitted a pumped discharge to a skin fitting above the water line. An unnecessary complication IMHO.

The sink is always well above the water line so never any fear of flooding via that route.
I dont understand why you had water flooding in unless the skin fitting is defective.

What is the name/ sail number of your boat?

Ahh brilliant, I'll take a look I'm not sure about the number but the boats name is Trunkle and it's currently moored up at Cuxton. Like I say, I've never owned a boat before and have /zero/ experience of sailing so having access to the manual and resources would be really useful...it literally took me 10 minutes to figure out how to raise the sail :nonchalance:

I think I'll be cutting that pipe back for now so it doesn't have a massive kink in and then looking for a more appropriate pipe that is a bit more purpose built.

 

[Jaguar 25]

The sink itself is built into the little step as you step into the cabin and the connectors top and bottom seem to be in tact. The water flooded in from the hole at the bottom that the tube is attached to and I'm guessing the heeled water level is the water level outside the boat? If it is, the sink is above it but the pipe just leads to the bottom of the boat.

I recently replaced the sink drain pipe on my Jaguar 25, which also has no sea cock. However, the discharge point is above the level of the water. What I did was to knock a wooden plug into the skin fitting from the outside and this prevented water ingress whilst I replaced the drain pipe.

Intention is to replace all sea cocks and add one to this drain when next out of the water. I wouldn't consider doing this whilst the boat is beached as things can go wrong.