The possible end of the Blue Card???

[Squeaky]

Good morning:

Noticed this comment on the Marmaris Bay Cruisers web site (http://cruisingtips.net/mbc/?p=1794)

We saw a Turmepa (Blue Card) boat while in Fethiye it had not moved for some time, in fact all it’s instruments had been removed and it was tied up next to the harbour masters office in Fethiye “

I wonder if this is "the beginning of end" for the "Blue Card" system which I think and have said many times was and is nothing more than a scam.

There is a "pump out" boat in the main harbour at Marmaris but I wouldn't want to have to live on the income they get from the few yachts I see using it.

The stupidity of this system is that they pump any liquids they remove from holding tanks into the town sewage system which is then pumped out to the treatment farm inland from Albatross where any solids remaining are removed. The remaining liquid, along with all the other liquid sewage from all the land based toilets, is pumped down to the causeway at Marmaris Yat Marina and then several hundred metres off shore where is released into the sea.

Seems to me that a reasonable yachtsmen could save this liquid a long circuitous route to the sea as has been done for many many years before the "do gooders" thought they saw a "income source" that was not being exploited.

I hope to heck that it will be shown that the "Blue card" system is not a very good "income source" although even if the pump out boats rot away it will take years before the authorities drop their demands for "blue cards" as it is a good source of income for marinas who sell them.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[camelkingsize]

What is the enforcement with gray water? I assume most yachts just dont have one. Do they divert their gray water to black water tanks? This should fill up quite quickly. Can you get a blue card without a gray water tank?

 

[Norman_E]

You can get a blue card without any inspection of the boat! It seems that you could get the card even if you had no tanks at all. Far from the blue card system dying out it is being extended to all of Turkey. Actual pump out facilities still seem to be inadequate. In Fethiye Ece Saray Marina has pump out facilities which probably explains why the Turmepa boat is unused.

 

[Artic Warrior]

What is the enforcement with gray water? I assume most yachts just dont have one. Do they divert their gray water to black water tanks? This should fill up quite quickly. Can you get a blue card without a gray water tank?

Yep all overboard water,,,be grey or black has to be diverted to a tank,,,

 

[camelkingsize]

Yep all overboard water,,,be grey or black has to be diverted to a tank,,,

Don't you get smell from the holding tank in the showers and sinks when you divert both black and gray to the same tank?

Is everyone really storing their gray water or are they sending it below waterline and/or at night?

 

[macduff]

Is everyone really storing their gray water or are they sending it below waterline and/or at night?

I think there are some questions that should not be asked.

 

[Dig]

I think there are some questions that should not be asked.

Thats true,but its time it did end if they are to stop the £ millions in lost income with boats being driven away to other countries.

 

[akyaka]

The stupidity of this system is that they pump any liquids they remove from holding tanks into the town sewage system which is then pumped out to the treatment farm inland from Albatross where any solids remaining are removed. The remaining liquid, along with all the other liquid sewage from all the land based toilets, is pumped down to the causeway at Marmaris Yat Marina and then several hundred metres off shore where is released into the sea.

Nothing stupid about this its what waste water treatment plants do all of the world , returning decontaminated water to watercourses or the sea ; in Singapore they have advanced processes which return the water into the mains as it is potable.

 

[sailaboutvic]

It take a while for country's to realise that soon or later yacht men will say enough is enough and stop paying out and just move on , a bit like what going on in Greece now , ok I won't go there , I see Belgium re now begging the Brit to return to Belgium.

 

[macduff]

Nothing stupid about this its what waste water treatment plants do all of the world , returning decontaminated water to watercourses or the sea ; in Singapore they have advanced processes which return the water into the mains as it is potable.

I personally doubt very much that the water is decontaminated before it is returned to the sea - yes, solids might well be removed however any nasties added to the water before it goes down the toilet or sink remain and end up in the sea.

Exactly what damage is done to the sea if a small amount of solids remain in the water when it is pumped through a toilet - even by time it appears on the outside of the boat it resembles nothing more than a cloud of brown water.

Of course,to those with delicate constitutions this represents a mortal sin but reality is reality and I don't think all the time, money and manpower that is wasted policing this is worth it.

 

[akyaka]

I personally doubt very much that the water is decontaminated before it is returned to the sea - yes, solids might well be removed however any nasties added to the water before it goes down the toilet or sink remain and end up in the sea.

Exactly what damage is done to the sea if a small amount of solids remain in the water when it is pumped through a toilet - even by time it appears on the outside of the boat it resembles nothing more than a cloud of brown water.

Of course,to those with delicate constitutions this represents a mortal sin but reality is reality and I don't think all the time, money and manpower that is wasted policing this is worth it.

You probably believe that TBT should still be used as well . Don't venture too far else you might fall off the edge of the world and don't drink the water in Singapore on the way.

 

[macd]

You probably believe that TBT should still be used as well . Don't venture too far else you might fall off the edge of the world and don't drink the water in Singapore on the way.

+1
There are still some semi-enclosed bays that are truly disgusting...murky water populated by brown trout. The issue is not whether something needed doing, for it certainly did; the issue is whether the scheme as currently formulated is the most appropriate measure.

I might add that a magazine article headed "The Possible End of the Blue Card?" based on such scant evidence as began this thread would bring howls of protest from the 'all journalism is sloppy' mob.

 

[macduff]

+1
There are still some semi-enclosed bays that are truly disgusting...murky water populated by brown trout. The issue is not whether something needed doing, for it certainly did; the issue is whether the scheme as currently formulated is the most appropriate measure.

I might add that a magazine article headed "The Possible End of the Blue Card?" based on such scant evidence as began this thread would bring howls of protest from the 'all journalism is sloppy' mob.

Would you, please, give us a location or possible location where you claim to have seen "murky water populated by brown trout". As far as I am aware brown trout are a fresh water fish and the Blue Card program only applies to salt water on the Turkish Coast.

I am not a journalist and never pretended to be one - I think most people who read the original post will understand that I was speculating and hoping that the events might signal the end of the Blue Card program and nothing more.

 

[Norman_E]

In fact black water (i.e. toilet waste) is a natural product that is quickly broken down in the sea and poses no risk to marine life. It is unpleasant if dumped in bays, but if let out offshore it presents no problem. The issue as far as marine life is concerned is so called grey water containing detergents and other chemical products, and Turkey is quite right to tackle the issue of such products being put into the seas around its coastline. Internationally more needs to be done to stop commercial shipping discharging waste products and cleaning tanks at sea. The implementation of the Blue Card Scheme has been patchy, with inadequate pump out facilities for all the boats, and it might have been better to ignore the small quantities discharged by yachts so long as they do it well offshore in favour of tough enforcement against the greater quantities discharged by trip boats and gulets.

 

[macduff]

The issue as far as marine life is concerned is so called grey water containing detergents and other chemical products, and Turkey is quite right to tackle the issue of such products being put into the seas around its coastline.

The detergents and other chemical products is exactly what I can't get my head around when I am told that sewage treatment plants remove these before pumping the remainder out to sea.

I personally don't know how these products could or can be removed once mixed with the other liquids that are poured down sinks or toilets and as a natural cynic I don't believe they are removed however it might be that overall they represent a very small part of the resulting liquid and do no damage.

If they are not removed I remain of the opinion that the Blue Card is a "lot to do about nothing" and simply satisfies the high expectations of the "do-gooders" permitting them to rest soundly in their beds knowing that there is nothing but pristine water surrounding their yachts.

 

[macd]

Would you, please, give us a location or possible location where you claim to have seen "murky water populated by brown trout". As far as I am aware brown trout are a fresh water fish...

'Brown trout' is a common euphemism for something brown that floats but does not swim in water, salt or otherwise. Sorry, but I'd hoped the context would make clear that I was not referring to that lover of clean water, Salmo trutta.

I think most people who read the original post will understand that I was speculating and hoping that the events might signal the end of the Blue Card program and nothing more.

You were speculating? I thought that was Squeaky.

 

[akyaka]

The detergents and other chemical products is exactly what I can't get my head around when I am told that sewage treatment plants remove these before pumping the remainder out to sea.

I personally don't know how these products could or can be removed once mixed with the other liquids that are poured down sinks or toilets and as a natural cynic I don't believe they are removed however it might be that overall they represent a very small part of the resulting liquid and do no damage.

If they are not removed I remain of the opinion that the Blue Card is a "lot to do about nothing" and simply satisfies the high expectations of the "do-gooders" permitting them to rest soundly in their beds knowing that there is nothing but pristine water surrounding their yachts.

Try a simple Google and you will quickly find out how modern waste water/sewage treatment plants work and remove the chemical contaminants . Life has moved on from building a sewage pit and throwing a dead sheep in to activate.

The problem I think you will find is not about pristine water but the impact on the seabed plant life and the knock on effects resulting .

 

[camelkingsize]

Ok let's say I have a fresh water tank of 250 litres and a holding tank of 50 litres with no extra gray water tank (no room).

Do I need to pump out everyday with 2 people showering on board and some light cooking, dish washing?

That implies I need to go back to the marina every evening to pump out.

Does every yacht really do this?

Also how do you prevent the smell coming back from the black water tank to gray water outlets?

 

[satsuma]

Ok let's say I have a fresh water tank of 250 litres and a holding tank of 50 litres with no extra gray water tank (no room).

Do I need to pump out everyday with 2 people showering on board and some light cooking, dish washing?

That implies I need to go back to the marina every evening to pump out.

Does every yacht really do this?

Also how do you prevent the smell coming back from the black water tank to gray water outlets?

I have a small black tank, and no grey water tank. I have had the blue card for two or three years (can't remember) and have never used it, and never been asked for it.
Like most things in Turkey the implementation is subject to local interpretation, but I have seen no evidence of prosecution, fine or other penalty (evidence, as opposed to hearsay). My only experience being on my friends boat 18 months ago, he was challenged by the coast guard and asked for paperwork (transit log and insurance only), he asked did they want to see the blue card and was told the blue card is for local (Turkish) boats only, not for foreign flagged boats. How that is implemented elsewhere I cannot say, but I have never heard anything adverse about this.

 

[Mrnotming]

Hello, I'm a whale.Do I need to have my plumbing altered? Some of my whale friends are of differing sexes,so will need their plumbing altered significantly to comply with these sewage and effluent laws?
Could we not do what we always did for millennia, and dispose of our waste products in deeper water away from beaches?
Other cetaceans please copy and form pressure groups.
Do sharks poo too!
Was it the wise human Oscar Wilde who said he never drank water as fish had had sex in it? Or do I misquote, a bit fishy?