The "perfect" switch / Control Panel

[Cookie Jar]

Good morning everyone,

While refitting my old boat, one of the projects was a complete overhaul (actually build from scratch) of the electrics and electronics. It went pretty well and I was happy with the result... then one thing led to another and I ended up designing/building more panels for friends.

My question to the board is if YOU would have the possibility to renew everything, what would your desires be? What would be a "must have"? "Would love to have" and the absolute perfect panel for you?

Would it be completely digital (as in touch screen and all of that), a combination of both digital and mechanical fail safe?
And what about raw materials... Is the usual boring black aluminium good enough for you or would you rather have something different?

Thanking you in advance for all the input,
Cookie Jar.

 

[Lon nan Gruagach]

Black aluminium is an unimaginative travesty, it should be burnt at the design stake.

Now, for the alternative:
All this fancy dancy touch screen stuff is great till it breaks. So an absolute must is conectorise the panel soit can be swapped out for a less attractive low tech version.
So, main panel is touch screen, if you can get all you want on one of the new "infinity" (as in no border) screens, go that way.
Back-up panel is clear perspex with the legend printed (in reverse) on the back. Include some boat specific artwork (not juust the name at the top of the panel!)

 

[lw395]

I'd avoid even having great big control panel.
Do you have all the breakers for your house on display in your lounge or office?

Best thing I ever did with boat electrics was, instead of crowding additions into the existing panel, having to force in more wiring etc, I moved some stuff out, out of the navigator's way.
The difficulty of sorting wiring seems to increase exponentially with the number of functions. It's much easier to understand a six switch panel than a twelve switch panel.
It's much easier to make a neat job of looming two six switch jobs than a twelve switch one.
Getting the heavy wiring for fridge and heater out of the way of the instruments etc also allowed it to be shorter.

 

[Graham376]

Wouldn't want digital, touch screen, switches or fuses, just circuit breakers as now.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I'd avoid even having great big control panel.
Do you have all the breakers for your house on display in your lounge or office?

I'm going to have to agree with you again (people might start talking )

Some boats are simple enough for a single panel, but not many. Another mistake that's often made is fitting switches to every single thing. Obviously everything needs a fuse, but many things don't have to be switched. No great need to switch VHF, plotter, sonar etc, they have their own switches. I often find it useful to have a single switch for the nav electronics, say plotter, depth, wind, AIS radar etc, which feeds a separate fuse/breaker board, with individual circuits going from there to the individual equipment.

It can also be useful to fit satellite fuse panels in different areas of the boat. If the forward cabin has lights, USB and 12v sockets, for instance, just run one pair of fused cables forward to a panel and take individual circuits from there.

Negative wiring can also be simplified by using more than one busbar. Even if the multiple circuits in cabin x need separately switched positives, it's generally OK to run a single negative (obviously rated for all loads) to that cabin and fit a small busbar or power post.

As for the panels themselves, what looks good on one boat, or one owner has a taste for might not be correct for another. My panels are not black, but i've designed panels for customers where they must be black.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I sail with mixed nationality crews, German, Austrian, Italian, British .... so unambiguous symbols rather than text for switch labelling is a huge benefit.

I have a standard production boat (Bavaria 36) from 1998/99 ... the switch panel was replaced last year because the symbols had worn off and the switches, buttons and displays were old and tired ... a panel refurbishing/copying service would have been fantastic.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Would it be completely digital (as in touch screen and all of that), a combination of both digital and mechanical fail safe?

Copper blade switches on a polished Aberllefenni slate board, operated by a hunchback called Igor. One has to have style.

 

[Graham376]

Do you have all the breakers for your house on display in your lounge or office?

Most, models of Moody panels are fitted with breakers which are also a switch, with panel lights alongside. Ours are push button type but more modern rocker types are available. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/thermal-magnetic-circuit-breakers/4059141/

 

[Cookie Jar]

a panel refurbishing/copying service would have been fantastic.

That's actually a good idea!

Thanks for the input everyone. Adobe I'm (clearly) used to smaller boats, I hadn't yet considered some of the options presented here.

 

[halcyon]

... a panel refurbishing/copying service would have been fantastic.

Not a new idea, I do that for all the panels we made over the last 35 years.

Brian

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Black aluminium is an unimaginative travesty, it should be burnt at the design stake.

Now, for the alternative:
All this fancy dancy touch screen stuff is great till it breaks. So an absolute must is conectorise the panel soit can be swapped out for a less attractive low tech version.
So, main panel is touch screen, if you can get all you want on one of the new "infinity" (as in no border) screens, go that way.
Back-up panel is clear perspex with the legend printed (in reverse) on the back. Include some boat specific artwork (not juust the name at the top of the panel!)

Careful - my wife makes her living from providing black engineering coatings for aluminium. Though mostly that isn't for appearance' sake; the coating is harder than anodizing, and retains dimensional fidelity.

My requirements would be 1) positive tactlile feedback (i.e. a click or vibration when a switch is engaged or disengaged) and b) the ability to isolate any sub-system as required. The former is for low light conditions (I wouldn't want the brightness of a touch screen when navigating at night) and the latter is to ensure that I can isolate misbehaving equipment without disabling working systems.

 

[Neeves]

Careful - my wife makes her living from providing black engineering coatings for aluminium. Though mostly that isn't for appearance' sake; the coating is harder than anodizing, and retains dimensional fidelity.

I'm interested, what is the coating applied to aluminium (any, all, alloys?) that is harder (what is the hardness?) than hard anodised. Is it smooth, like anodising. Does is stand up to the marine environment? Black is good - I'm interested in robustness in the marine environment - so thickness, or more of it, is also good.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

Picking up on Antarctic Pilot's desire to not have a bright screen (and maybe the idea of symbols might part solve the issue):

People on the boat might not be familiar with the screen - so have a means to correctly identify which switch is which in low light conditions (at night) and without the need to use bright lights would be advantageous. larger lettering - symbols? - would also be advantageous.

Jonathan

 

[Iain C]

Took me a while to install mine but I came up with this...

 

[rogerthebodger]

Picking up on Antarctic Pilot's desire to not have a bright screen (and maybe the idea of symbols might part solve the issue):

People on the boat might not be familiar with the screen - so have a means to correctly identify which switch is which in low light conditions (at night) and without the need to use bright lights would be advantageous. larger lettering - symbols? - would also be advantageous.

Jonathan

Mine panels are made from a type of acrylic that is coated black on the back. The writing or symbols are reversed engraved through the black backing. The first lot I filled the engraving with white paint. I then tried glow in the dark paint then finally leds shiping through the back engraving. Using 2 colour LED's the symbol can change colour when the circuit is turned on/off

Some of my panels can be seen on Distantshaws wed site.

I prefer to have switched circuit breakers for each piece of equipment despite what Paul and others recommend.

I used standard MCB initially mounted with DIN rails to the back of the engraved panel but now mounted on the back of the panel recess with the engraved panel mounted in front.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I'm interested, what is the coating applied to aluminium (any, all, alloys?) that is harder (what is the hardness?) than hard anodised. Is it smooth, like anodising. Does is stand up to the marine environment? Black is good - I'm interested in robustness in the marine environment - so thickness, or more of it, is also good.

Jonathan

Way off topic, but it's called Keronite (www.keronite.com). The process is Plasma Electrolytic Oxidation.. It can be coated to any required thickness (within reason). Works on Aluminium and Magnesium alloys and also Titanium. Excellent anti-corrosion properties, and has been used as an anti-wear coating on winches for America's Cup boats.

I'm afraid it is WAY too costly for one-off use! Only suitable for a) long production runs and/or b) extremely high-value parts (think aerospace).

 

[GHA]

My question to the board is if YOU would have the possibility to renew everything, what would your desires be? What would be a "must have"? "Would love to have" and the absolute perfect panel for you?

Probably a few PCBs from jlcpcb to provide lots of terminals for the many instrument negs / nmea 0183 sharing etc. And a few breakout panels to free up space / tidy up the main panel. Maybe a dedicated 5v power supply or 2 for usb charging / microcontrollers.

 

[Neeves]

Way off topic, but it's called Keronite (www.keronite.com). The process is Plasma Electrolytic Oxidation.. It can be coated to any required thickness (within reason). Works on Aluminium and Magnesium alloys and also Titanium. Excellent anti-corrosion properties, and has been used as an anti-wear coating on winches for America's Cup boats.

I'm afraid it is WAY too costly for one-off use! Only suitable for a) long production runs and/or b) extremely high-value parts (think aerospace).

Yes, sorry for the thread drift - but it seemed appropriate to follow 'in public' rather than a PM and a bit esoteric for a new thread.

I'd forgotten about plasma spraying

Thanks

Jonathan

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Yes, sorry for the thread drift - but it seemed appropriate to follow 'in public' rather than a PM and a bit esoteric for a new thread.

I'd forgotten about plasma spraying

Thanks

Jonathan

It's not plasma spraying (I think - I'm not an engineer!). The oxides are generated in-situ by electrolysis and then fused; the process takes place in a tank of electrolyte. Wikipedia has a page on PEO that seems fairly sensible. But it's my wife who is the electrochemist; I'm a geologist by training and a data scientist by calling!

 

[Yellow Ballad]

This was what I had made last year, tried to keep it as simple as possible. The running and tri lights are DPST and feed the compass light as well, the anchor light is now DPDT so I can switch between masthead anchor light and masthead anchor inc deck light.