The latest money grabbing scam

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Squeaky

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Good afternoon:

For many years it has been routine to use the restaurants which provide quays/jetties/docks in Turkish bays at no charge however have just received news that a number of restaurants in the Marmaris/Fethiye area are beginning to charge for the use of their quays.

The ones named so far are:

Selimiye - Sardenya restaurant - the report indicates a harbour master visits between 1000-1100 hours daily to collect 30 TL from each boat. Apparently not connected to owners of restaurant who are not involved. Would be interesting to see name on the receipt if one is issued.

Knidos - Restaurant dock - 45 TL

Fethiye - Yacht Classic Hotel - 40 TL

Keci Buku - Luna Begonvil - 35 TL included on restaurant bill as "yacht service"

Keci Buku - Iskele Restaurant - no charge and reported to be inexpensive with water and electricity available plus swimming pool.

Keci Buku - Palmiye Restaurant now has sign proclaiming it to be
"Palmiye Marina" which might be indication it will charge for use.

I will not be using any of these restaurants and I encourage others to avoid using them as this is nothing more than a "money grabbing scam" especially as I am told none of these jetties/pontoons/quays are legally authorized in the first place.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
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The Palmiye is not charging visitors.

All the quays in Selimye have been forced to charge since the new town quay was installed, not just the Sardunya. This decision was imposed on them by the village council, and since the quays are not licensed they had no choice, it was that or lose them. It is all above board and a receipt is issued. A charge has been in place now for 3 years.

From what I understand at other restaurants it is illegal to make a charge to use the quay unless they are licensed. At least one had had false reports made to the authorities that he was charging, and had been inspected by tax officials.

I don't know the status of Knidos but there has been a charge there at least some of the time for years too.
 
We were turned away from the jetty at Knodos because ..in the words of the harbourmaster we were "too small" in other words there were only 2 of us on board to eat at his restaurant, and he wanted to keep the space for boats with more bodies.
We anchored off ,but later they came round on a boat with a menu and asked if we were coming to eat. I told him where to stick his menu.
Since then we always anchor off there and use the dink.
 
I don't have the pilot book to hand just now,but last year we stayed at the restaurant on the extreme right hand side right at the end in Keci Buku ..(.it is the Sunsail base) ..and we were made most welcome and had an excellent meal with no charge for the mooring. What was it called? hope it hasn't changed?
 
sandydog said:
The Palmiye is not charging visitors.

All the quays in Selimye have been forced to charge since the new town quay was installed, not just the Sardunya. This decision was imposed on them by the village council, and since the quays are not licensed they had no choice, it was that or lose them. It is all above board and a receipt is issued. A charge has been in place now for 3 years.

From what I understand at other restaurants it is illegal to make a charge to use the quay unless they are licensed. At least one had had false reports made to the authorities that he was charging, and had been inspected by tax officials.

I don't know the status of Knidos but there has been a charge there at least some of the time for years too.
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Sorry to appear to be trying to pick fly **** out of pepper but you claim the decision was imposed by the council and they have to play ball because the jetties are not licensed yet your understanding is that it is illegal for other restaurants to charge unless they are licensed.

If the restaurants that are charging are following council directives, why are Palmiye and Iskele Restaurant not charging? Are they disregarding the council directive?

What happens to the funds added to the bill by Luna Begonvil?

My gut feeling is that this is simply a "money grabbing scheme" with the blame being shifted to the unseen council - does it make sense that a council would insist they charge for the use of illegal jetties and then only enforce it with some restaurants?

I hope yachts will take note and use other jetties which are not charging.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
Squeaky said:
Sorry to appear to be trying to pick fly **** out of pepper but you claim the decision was imposed by the council and they have to play ball because the jetties are not licensed yet your understanding is that it is illegal for other restaurants to charge unless they are licensed.

If the restaurants that are charging are following council directives, why are Palmiye and Iskele Restaurant not charging? Are they disregarding the council directive?

What happens to the funds added to the bill by Luna Begonvil?

My gut feeling is that this is simply a "money grabbing scheme" with the blame being shifted to the unseen council - does it make sense that a council would insist they charge for the use of illegal jetties and then only enforce it with some restaurants?

I hope yachts will take note and use other jetties which are not charging.

Cheers

Squeaky
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I am not defending anyone, just giving you all the information I had ! We have hardly been to Selimye since the charge was imposed. I confidently predicted few yachts would, but the quays are still full every night ! I suppose the charge is very little if you have a lot of people on board, and that is the boats they want anyway.

It is the village council in Selimye that make a charge. This only applies in Selimye. The other restaurants you mention are in Orhaniye so have not been affected. I have no idea why the Luna Begonvil in Orhaniye is charging as I have never been there. Perhaps they are now a marina and have chosen to charge. Certainly all the quays in Selimye charge, which is the point I was making.

Some of the quays in Orhaniye now have liveaboard boats on them. They have left Marti marina due to changes and price rises. Perhaps these quays are now licensed. I have no idea. They are not charging for overnight stays but the liveaboards must be paying. An employee of one of the quays came to talk to us when anchored nearby. He said they had 11 boats from Marti and were expanding next year.

I have never used the quay in Knidos either as we prefer to anchor, and have heard only bad reports of the restaurant there. Also a problem with rats.

I would hate to see charges spreading too, although we rarely eat ashore and anchor most nights.
 
Good evening:

Sandydog: Sorry if my post seemed to be having a "go" at you - I think I was just trying to clarify what was going on. You have made it quite clear that the restaurants in Selimye are the ones charging.

I suspect and hope that the yachts berthed there are charter yachts who probably don't care about a few extra lira here and there but they will go home and the season will end.

It will be interesting to see what happens then as I don't think most cruising/liveaboard yachts will welcome such charges so hopefully they will "vote with their feet".

We will just to make sure that this news gets as wide publicity as possible so others can avoid those that charge.

I don't get around as much as I would like but have always made it a practice to leave a small tip with a comment that it is to cover the electricity I have used and will continue to do so.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
"have always made it a practice to leave a small tip with a comment that it is to cover the electricity I have used and will continue to do so. "

+1
 
Knidos Quay

My understanding at Knidos is that having asked one of the officials who are there to charge entry to their Greek ancient site, is that the quay does NOT belong to the restaurant at all and is in fact owned by whoever owns the ancient site there. The last time we tied up on it we refused to use the guys' restaurant at all. He is the man with the "official" white hat on who comes and interferes when you are trying to go alongside. We told him to get lost and a lot of other boaters joined in. It would not be so bad except he has no menu and the bill is always much more than his estimate when you get it. We have started using Palamut if we can instead. At least the harbour master there is friendly with a good sense of humour and very helpful. Plenty of restaurants to chose from, nice little town and wifi.
 
There are two Luna Begonvill Restaurants. One at Selimiye, which is subject to the local council charge, as are all the other restaurants with jetties there. The other is at Orhaniye beyond Marti Marina and just before the sand bar. Last time I was there was September last year and there was no charge then. The restaurant at the very end on the right, which used to host the Sunsail boats is called Buk, and has never made a charge to my knowledge. Ramazan, who used to run it is no longer there however.
 
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Orhaniye Quays

To add to comments about Orhaniye Quays I think that Palmiye is the only one there in the bay who is registered and has the correct paperwork and official "stuff" to be a full marina. They have spent a lot of money on the new quay and walkway this last winter and made a large hardstanding over the road too. Unfortunately when we were there in the spring it was full of Sunsail yachts (empty ones) although they were supposed to be moving off by mid May. The holding is so good in the bay we always anchor off anyway so we can choose our restaurant and they will still do laundry etc ashore for you (charge of course but well done). We will be back there early September and will report back if anyone is interested.
 
Squeaky said:
The ones named so far are:
Selimiye - Sardenya restaurant - the report indicates a harbour master visits between 1000-1100 hours daily to collect 30 TL from each boat. Apparently not connected to owners of restaurant who are not involved. Would be interesting to see name on the receipt if one is issued.
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Comment:
I have a receipt and it definitely is the Harbour Master collecting. There was one English speaking boat (not American) that was there when we were there. He simply avoided the Harbour Master by not being available when he came to collect. All of the boats at this dock were using shore power and all were using restrooms, showers and all boats topped-off their water tanks. I believe that most ate at the restaurant, however it was not a requirement for the berth. I cannot understand how anyone could object to 30TL, nor can I understand how some people cheat. Cheating the local people always makes things difficult for the next visitor. The suggestion that we stop going to these docks will never work. This restaurant had at least 250 people eating each night with 8 boats docked at the pier. Two of the 3 nights we were there, the restaurant turned away people because there was no table available.

Squeaky said:
Fethiye - Yacht Classic Hotel - 40 TL
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Comment:
We also berthed a few nights at Yacht Classic. When you tie up at yacht classic you are assisted by one employee in a dinghy and at least two more on the pier. You are told very clearly that unlimited electricity and water are 40TL/day if you are our size which is 16m (53'). Some boats paid as low as 25TL. You are also given free WiFi and the use of the facility which includes a swimming pool. The hotel has a very nice health spa which you are allowed to use at the same price as the hotel guests. The hotel concierge arranges taxis, rent cars, tours, etc. for you as if you are a hotel guest. I clearly cannot understand why there is an objection to this.

Squeaky said:
I will not be using any of these restaurants and I encourage others to avoid using them as this is nothing more than a "money grabbing scam" especially as I am told none of these jetties/pontoons/quays are legally authorized in the first place. Squeaky
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Comment:
I will be using them. I will not be cheating them. And, in fact have a long-term winter berthing contract with Yacht Classic Hotel. It was recommended to me for the winter by other Amel owners. Last winter there were 5 Amels berthed at Yacht Classic for the winter. "Squeaky," I am told that you are a respected and experienced member of our community. Many people listen to what you have to say. I urge you NOT to guide others based on inaccurate, and incorrect information or hearsay. There is too much of that in our community already and it hurts all of us.

Bill
 
Good evening

Below is my reply to a private message I received from a member who was unable to post a comment:

My objection to these charges are simply because they are likely to be the slim edge of the wedge which will result in charges for all jetties and quays which have been provided by restaurants for the use of their clients for a long long time without charge - "monkey see monkey do".

I am naturally suspicious of any claims that the charges were forced on them by the local authorities especially because I don't think there is such an official as a "harbour master" in Selimiye. Yes, there might be someone who claims to be the harbour master and he may have official looking receipts but I can get a book full of these over town in a day or so.

I don't and wouldn't expect any of the restaurant owners to have the front to admit that this was a scam cooked up amongst themselves so they have to have someone to push the blame over onto. The gulet/day boat operators in Marmaris used to claim that the price of their on board drinks were set by the authorities but that has been exposed as a scam as the prices were decided amongst themselves.

While you might not object to paying 30 to 40 TL a night to use a jetty on a nightly basis this would be a big dent in the monthly budget of many cruising yachts.

I was around this part of the world when the Greek marinas started charging tradesmen to enter their marina to work on private yachts and this practice is now wide spread and morally wrong in my opinion - I don't pay the landlord to have any one repair my washing machine or fridge.

The use of "free wi-fi" is a pretty common practice now for bars and cafes though out Turkey and is a very minor cost as is the amount of electricity an average yacht would use daily - they pay some thing like 15-25 kurus per kilowatt.

I will boycott and continue to publicize this latest charge which I think will be an increasingly negative cost to cruising yachtsmen in the future.

July and August are busy months for places like Selimiye and they may have lots of visiting clients using their summer houses but there are ten other months when cruising yachts represent a large source of income for restaurants in outlying bays.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
Squeaky said:
Below is my reply to a private message I received from a member who was unable to post a comment:

I will boycott and continue to publicize this latest charge which I think will be an increasingly negative cost to cruising yachtsmen in the future.Squeaky
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There is no conspiracy. Things do change. And the person collecting fees is the harbour master. I checked him and his receipts out with the town office.

I think it is fine if anyone chooses to refuse these berths/moorings. I believe it is shameful to sneak in/out and steal as I have witnessed. And I believe it is harmful to our community to spread false information. Publicizing accurate information is good for all of us and what we all want.

Your original posting, "Squeaky," was inaccurate, and simply hearsay. I do not know about you and the rest of this community, but I do not care for hearsay. As we have circumnavigated the world I have found that hearsay is one of the most dangerous pieces of information.

My attempted and blocked posting was an effort to set the record straight.

I will see if this posting hits the thread...if not it will be my last posting.

Bill
 
Post/comments not being shown/accepted

Good afternoon:

I have had two personal messages from an American member who attempted to comment on this thread however his comments have not appeared.

He seems to feel his nationality has something to do with this - I am sure I have seen comments from American members so doubt that is the reason. The fact that he can use the PM facility seems to indicate his registration has been accepted.

Any suggestions as to why his comments/posts have not been accepted/published would be welcome.

Cheers

Squeaky
 
Don't know if it has changed but we did a short bareboat charter in Turkey a couple of years ago. We'd sailed most of Greece & bits of Turkey but not for quite a while.

I noticed that unlike previous visits, every bay had only one place to eat, menu was fixed and they only sold expensive wine. So days of having 1 or 2 cheap courses with a jug of local wine seemed to have gone. It looked very much as if they had decided not to compete and only kept one place open per bay. Then they could have a fixed price for a meal (exactly the same amount everywhere) and overcharge for wine.

Not surprised that they are now adding other charges as well. Towns were still OK because there was competition. So low prices & cheap wine.

We decided not to take our boat there (combination of cost, heat, prices etc.). Still quite happy to be in Spain/Portugal until October. I suppose it is a fact of life that places get busier and more expensive everywhere. Good to resist unfair charges wherever possible (e.g. Trying to charge for anchoring).
 
Squeaky said:
Good evening:

Sandydog: You have made it quite clear that the restaurants in Selimye are the ones charging.


Cheers

Squeaky
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Hi Squeaky,

Whilst it's true the charges are in Selimye it is not the restaurants themselves who are charging. The 'little man' who comes around and collects is from the council - as explained by Sandydog. I watched him go around the various jetties - he is not from one restaurant (unless that's changed this year).

I also found he was not too diligent and did not come around every day (one day in about 4 when we were there). He seemed to ignore us if he had collected from us on a previous day.

As to the PM you received. I don't believe it's a restaurant scam. They are not fools and know it irks people. It was clear that the two main restaurants really didn't want these collectors at all.

This will not, of course, convince those who see conspiracies wherever they go!

Cheers,

Bob
 
Norman_E said:
There are two Luna Begonvill Restaurants. One at Selimiye, which is subject to the local council charge, as are all the other restaurants with jetties there. The other is at Orhaniye beyond Marti Marina and just before the sand bar. Last time I was there was September last year and there was no charge then. The restaurant at the very end on the right, which used to host the Sunsail boats is called Buk, and has never made a charge to my knowledge. Ramazan, who used to run it is no longer there however.
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The Bük quay now appears to be run by Luna Begonvil. They have a website offering winter moorings. I don't know whether they charge for single night stays but they do seem to be a mini marina now.

Turkey is changing fast and getting much more expensive for yachts. We rarely eat ashore any more. Most quays are full at night so I suppose no longer need to lure boats in with free mooring lines, electricity, water, showers, bread in the morning etc. Logically I don't see any reason it should be free. I can't think of anywhere else it would be. The title of this thread rather baffled me. Of course it was great for us while it lasted, but there are a huge number of boats now, and most seem a lot more wealthy than us.

I well remember a conversation we had with one of the restaurant quay owners in the Gocek bays a few years ago. He was surprised when we told him it was now much cheaper to eat out in England. But he said as long as many of his customers were leaving tips of 30% or more, he would not worry about it !
 
Reading with interest...

...all comments about these Bukus etc..we are setting off this afternoon for Palamut having already decided we have had enough of Knidos in season(we drag as well and gulets that go there are too big for the place)......we NEVER eat out only if we have chums...which we did last week up Gokova Korfezi and everywhere was fab,v few boats about only 4 of us in Amazon Creek a jettyless place.
So for the next 10 days we will be a-visitin Hisaronu Korfezi etc and will keep way from the jettys but may visit the nice sounding one in Keci...I go now to look it up!
Thanks for all the info.........
Sogut..any liveaboards interested in wintering there....not too far from Marms but dont know if pubeic transport works in the winter....1000E for 6 months!Advertised ( and verified by Tiger ,in your tank,Woods the resident Turk)in swoopermarket window
Suzy( rambling )Wong
 
There is no scam

We're just back from the Oranihye area exchanging the recent 40+ deg heat for a more comfortable 28 deg in the UK! We visited many of the restaurants mentioned by Squeaky over the last four weeks and I can report that we found NO restaurants making a charge for mooring.

Palamut, Kalaboshi (Oguns Place), Datca, Bozburan and Selimye are all council owned harbours/pontoons and employ a harbourmaster to collect berthing fees of between 30 and 55 TL's per night which is independant of the restaurants . All offer electricity and water inclusive.

I have no knowledge of La Luna in Keki Buku but we were not charged at either the Palmiye or Dogan Restaurant, Orinihye, or at Sailors Paradise, Dirsek and Sogut.

we do not use Knidos (overcrowded, dodgy pontoon and even dodgier food) so cannot comment on charges there. I hope this sets the record straight.
 
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