Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
....whilst approving a zipwire operation at a lakeside venue with an Arts & Crafts building and a Mawson designed garden. But the LDNPA own Brockhole themselves, of course.
The Lake Is Dead.
- Thread starter Lakesailor
- Start date
Seajet
...
I would suggest fast power boats and the rest of recreational sailors / water -goers don't mix, when they do it's downright unpleasant and dangerous.
I don't know the politics of the area, but how about giving Conniston to the speedboat types, after all it has a history of it ?!
I don't know the politics of the area, but how about giving Conniston to the speedboat types, after all it has a history of it ?!
ProDave
Well-Known Member
It was precicely because of the current recession and the drop in used boat prices that we took up sailing in 2009 as it had become an affordable hobby for us. It does surprise me that there hadn't been much or a resurgence in interest in sailing the cheap, small 1970's / 1980's cruisers.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
Windermere has a longer history of speed record breaking. Henry Seagrave died after a crash on Windermere. During the run he broke the water speed record.
This is not the sort of history the LDNPA and the Friends of the Lake District are interested in.
This is not the sort of history the LDNPA and the Friends of the Lake District are interested in.
Seajet
...
I have noticed that people nowadays don't have the inclination, skills and maybe time to do the slightest work on boats !
My Father and I completed my boat from a kit - and I have carried out one major & several minor refits since - but most people now seem incapable of doing more than draw the curtains.
As for the comment about seeing little activity on moorings and the most expensive boats apparently unused, this is not restricted to the lakes, try any club or marina and you'll see the same; I don't think this in particular is related to the recession etc, it has always been the case - we often thought such boats must be some kind of tax dodge.
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
I think the point is that on a lake where you can see the whole thing in one view (OK 2 on Windermere) it is so obvious that there isn't the activity. Coastal sailors may disappear from view so it's not as easy to count the boats in use.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
2 boats in 10 square miles sounds pretty crowded to me! I'm quite used to there being 3 or 4 boats in sight in over 100 square miles up on the Clyde; often less. The only time you see a significantly higher density are in racing fleets or sometimes in narrows like the Kyles of Bute.
Seajet
...
Lakesailor,
no, I can tell activity at ( or not at ! ) my club by the dinghy park and the moorings, and I know Chichester Harbour well enough to see there's nowhere near as much action as say 10 years ago; even midweek there used to be quite a few sails in Emsworth Channel, now I rarely see any.
I do think the weather is at least as responsible as the recession,after all a lot of boats have been in steady ownership for years.
That being said everyone's getting older and there's a distinct lack of young blood coming in.
If I hadn't been indoctrinated by Arthur Ransome & co as a boy I very much doubt sailing would even occur to me as a pastime given modern weather, though I've no idea what else I'd be doing.
doughnut
Member
If the marinas are not full, etc are the prices coming down? I'm planning on putting my boat on Windermere next year - hoping for a marina berth near the south of the lake so that I can get to it for evening sails as well as weekends. Minimum seems to be about £1800 for the summer season - I'm going to have to sail a lot to make that worth it.
the_branflake
Well-Known Member
I dont think they are. We have a mooring and i asked about visitor berths over the winter in one of the empty spaces and was told i could only have it for the whole term 5-6months which was more than i pay a year. When we went sailing over the winter i saw a few spaces still...
Seajet
...
yes marina prices are coming down very significantly; a chum was just given 2 months for the price of 1 by a major marina chain, but they'll have to do a lot better to keep punters I suspect !
sealegsjim
Well-Known Member
Yes, I was out sailing on Windermere yesterday and it definately was very quiet. Had a lovely sail and anchored for a meal on board and watched the sunset. Long may the llake be 'dead'
Windy Tonique
Well-Known Member
We were up last night too and it was lovely and quiet compared to the weekends when we usually visit - the sunset was to die for. Rain stopped play today though. It seems that SLDC may at last be seeing some sense - taken from the Facebook page - "WMBRC have found out this morning that we will be granted exemption for 2 races this year on Windermere - Regatta and Commodore's Day". The dates are the 20th July and 28th September for those interested. I agree that many years ago when it was a free for all it was too crowded and at times dangerous. Shepherds tried to put forward an argument at the time to have allocated areas for sailing and motor sports which I thought was reasonable. SLDC have no desire to increase their revenue by encouraging more boat owners - they already receive over a £1 million a year in revenue from us despite a steady decline since 2009. According to the joint annual report from SLDC and LDNPA 2012 there are 797 mooring sites let out of a possible 1034 on the lake. Lake registrations have dropped by about 600 overall from 2009. Interestingly the report puts blame on the weather mainly. Personally I think that it is not before time that SLDC are proposing to invest in improving the facilities for all lake users. The one toilet and two showers x 2, available in only 1 location for nearly 800 mooring holders is woefully inadequate. The limited number of public jetties is also an issue. I just hope that the development is sensitive to the location and natural beauty of the lake.
ffiill
Well-Known Member
An odd one that-however remember pre M6-certainly most day tripper came from no further than Lancashire and Yorkshire and outwith Bank Holidays you could find some peace in the lakes
But on Bank Holidays the queing began at Carnforth all the way up through Kendal and continued into Windermere even after you had lost the A6 Shap traffic in Kendal.
However the economic crisis is biting-I drive the A82 up and down the Great Glen every day in the season and the road is unusually quite and all accomodation providers who I visit report it to be very quite indeed.
But on Bank Holidays the queing began at Carnforth all the way up through Kendal and continued into Windermere even after you had lost the A6 Shap traffic in Kendal.
However the economic crisis is biting-I drive the A82 up and down the Great Glen every day in the season and the road is unusually quite and all accomodation providers who I visit report it to be very quite indeed.
Paul H
New Member
Hello everybody.
I am new to the forum and joined after reading this thread as I could not resist a comment.
As a family, we Sail, Windsurf, Kayak, Wakeboard, Wakeskate, Wakesurf, kneeboard with the last four behind our Wakeboat.
We keep the boards, and boat on Windermere and while we occasionally sail elsewhere and take the Wakeboat up to Loch Lomond, to escape the Windermere speed limit, a week a year but we spend the majority of our watersport time on Windermere. I agree the lake is dead a few Sundays ago there was literally us and two ranger boats in the whole of the north basin! And while the registrations are down 400 ish was mentioned before! that is only half the story as all who had SSR had to transfer to the LDNPA registration so in fact it in reality it will be more.
I put this down to three factors 1) the weather has not been good 2) Disposable income reduced for most 3) the LDNPA Rangers taking people to court for speeding. The first two are more or less out of hands, re the third every time I read in the local paper "Tourist fined on Lake" it sends a shiver down my neck. the majority have ended up paying over £800 in fine, costs and victim support fund. Each time the person fined will never be back and all who read will it will be put off from even visiting!.
While I and many others do not want a return to a free for all I do want a better lake management plan to allow more inclusive use of the largest lake in England.
In my mind towed water sports, such as wakeboarding, are a healthy, family centred, inclusive activity which has a very positive contribution to the local economy and helps make Lake Windermere a Vibrant visitor attraction.
Reading the previous posts I thought I would add a bit on who is responsible for what on the lake which also will make it clear why direction is difficult.
The Lake bed is owned by SLDC who also own Ferry Nab and they receive all fees for launching at ferry nab as well as swinging mooring fees and jetty encroachment charges which is, I understand, approaching £1,000,000 per year with about £400,000 put back into there operations and the rest profit. They run the Lake wardens who do not enforce the byelaws.
LDNPA charge the registration fee, and own Brockhole visitor centre, the employ the Rangers who enforce registration and the speed limit. ( they will fine blatant speeders)
The National trust own much of the lakeshore and control access to a lot of the moorings.
Co-operation between the three has in the past been very poor, the rangers and the wardens now in different boats and bases is a good example of this.
The WMBRC exception, which was granted by the LDNPA for two race afternoons in the south basin, is a good step forward, but two were also rejected, the classic boat rally and a disabled ski even at the low wood hotel. It is beyond my comprehension how the, LDNPA can reject the Low Woods application, only 2 boats for three afternoons at a maximum of 20 MPH, for an event 10 days after they have hosted the great north swim with 10,000 competitors, with all the benefit that it brought to the area and lake, you would have thought that the LDNPA would have given them some slack???
All discussion on the speed limit is good and only goes to show that 8 years after it came in to effect it is not the whole answer, and a live and let live solution for responsible users to all enjoy the lake without conflicting with other users.
While I did not start this please sign this e petition:- http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38359
I am new to the forum and joined after reading this thread as I could not resist a comment.
As a family, we Sail, Windsurf, Kayak, Wakeboard, Wakeskate, Wakesurf, kneeboard with the last four behind our Wakeboat.
We keep the boards, and boat on Windermere and while we occasionally sail elsewhere and take the Wakeboat up to Loch Lomond, to escape the Windermere speed limit, a week a year but we spend the majority of our watersport time on Windermere. I agree the lake is dead a few Sundays ago there was literally us and two ranger boats in the whole of the north basin! And while the registrations are down 400 ish was mentioned before! that is only half the story as all who had SSR had to transfer to the LDNPA registration so in fact it in reality it will be more.
I put this down to three factors 1) the weather has not been good 2) Disposable income reduced for most 3) the LDNPA Rangers taking people to court for speeding. The first two are more or less out of hands, re the third every time I read in the local paper "Tourist fined on Lake" it sends a shiver down my neck. the majority have ended up paying over £800 in fine, costs and victim support fund. Each time the person fined will never be back and all who read will it will be put off from even visiting!.
While I and many others do not want a return to a free for all I do want a better lake management plan to allow more inclusive use of the largest lake in England.
In my mind towed water sports, such as wakeboarding, are a healthy, family centred, inclusive activity which has a very positive contribution to the local economy and helps make Lake Windermere a Vibrant visitor attraction.
Reading the previous posts I thought I would add a bit on who is responsible for what on the lake which also will make it clear why direction is difficult.
The Lake bed is owned by SLDC who also own Ferry Nab and they receive all fees for launching at ferry nab as well as swinging mooring fees and jetty encroachment charges which is, I understand, approaching £1,000,000 per year with about £400,000 put back into there operations and the rest profit. They run the Lake wardens who do not enforce the byelaws.
LDNPA charge the registration fee, and own Brockhole visitor centre, the employ the Rangers who enforce registration and the speed limit. ( they will fine blatant speeders)
The National trust own much of the lakeshore and control access to a lot of the moorings.
Co-operation between the three has in the past been very poor, the rangers and the wardens now in different boats and bases is a good example of this.
The WMBRC exception, which was granted by the LDNPA for two race afternoons in the south basin, is a good step forward, but two were also rejected, the classic boat rally and a disabled ski even at the low wood hotel. It is beyond my comprehension how the, LDNPA can reject the Low Woods application, only 2 boats for three afternoons at a maximum of 20 MPH, for an event 10 days after they have hosted the great north swim with 10,000 competitors, with all the benefit that it brought to the area and lake, you would have thought that the LDNPA would have given them some slack???
All discussion on the speed limit is good and only goes to show that 8 years after it came in to effect it is not the whole answer, and a live and let live solution for responsible users to all enjoy the lake without conflicting with other users.
While I did not start this please sign this e petition:- http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/38359
Vallich
Well-Known Member
Several weekends this past few months I've seen a gaggle of dinghies racing around near the southern bit of Windermere - a joy to watch and dodge!
Even saw a water skiing combo zoom along two weekends ago near Lakeside - damned near awash in my tender! Four hours sailing then found somebody had nicked MY swing mooring - after that an errant swan came nosing around for a tidbit... busy day on Windermere.
Even saw a water skiing combo zoom along two weekends ago near Lakeside - damned near awash in my tender! Four hours sailing then found somebody had nicked MY swing mooring - after that an errant swan came nosing around for a tidbit... busy day on Windermere.
Croak
Well-Known Member
It maybe legal now, but for how much longer?
Paul H
New Member
Lake Windermere very quite tonight, but then again there might be a bit of life after all. see below.
Looks like Flyboard has arrived at The Low Wood, I can not wait to have ago.
Looks like Flyboard has arrived at The Low Wood, I can not wait to have ago.
landlockedpirate
Well-Known Member
I can think of a couple of ways to ban this, reduce the speed limit further or ban engines all together.
If they reduce the speed limit to 6mph you would just need to put more weight in the boat and I'm sure it would still work.
If you banned engines altogether the economy of the area would totally fall apart, no lake steamers, no working boats in the steam museum, no 'put put's' in Bowness etc.
Seajet
...
Berks in speeboats are usually selfish lowly skilled egotistical prats in the extreme, I've seen people very badly injured by propellors and was lucky to escape this myself, on Windermere before the speed limit was introduced.
Rather than ban engines altogether though how about insisting on electric jobs ?
Tripper boats could carry enough batteries and it would encourage the development of such things, while being quiet in the meantime.
Rather than ban engines altogether though how about insisting on electric jobs ?
Tripper boats could carry enough batteries and it would encourage the development of such things, while being quiet in the meantime.