The killing fields

[OldBawley]

For those who love anchoring with a masthead anchoring light, again some dead people due to one of those big overpowered ribs who are so “in “nowadays.
During the night the powerboat just ran over the fishing boat who was pulling his nets.
It is impossible to pull fishing nets in the dark, those fishing boats have a sea of light.
We ware in Porto Cheli some days ago, we have a dark boat so I had three flashing red lights and the whole night a extreme bright cockpit light on.
Still one night one of these black 30 feet ribs with 900 HP on it passed us so close his wake put our cockpit under water. Have seen some pics, think it is the same boat that almost hit us.
Last year it was Aegina, now Porto Cheli, maybe tomorrow Poros. At least six of those black killers on the water today in Poros. And why ? The passengers shout youhou when they pass. And their bitches shriek.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

For those who love anchoring with a masthead anchoring light, again some dead people due to one of those big overpowered ribs who are so “in “nowadays.
During the night the powerboat just ran over the fishing boat who was pulling his nets.
It is impossible to pull fishing nets in the dark, those fishing boats have a sea of light.
We ware in Porto Cheli some days ago, we have a dark boat so I had three flashing red lights and the whole night a extreme bright cockpit light on.
Still one night one of these black 30 feet ribs with 900 HP on it passed us so close his wake put our cockpit under water. Have seen some pics, think it is the same boat that almost hit us.
Last year it was Aegina, now Porto Cheli, maybe tomorrow Poros. At least six of those black killers on the water today in Poros. And why ? The passengers shout youhou when they pass. And their bitches shriek.

So sorry to hear that these idiots in fast ribs have killed people. With regards your 3 flashing red light s becareful as you may be blamed for incorrectly identifying yourself.
Three or four rich locals in a fast rib against a foreigner displaying strange lighting , who do you think the Port Police will believe?

 

[OldBawley]

I don´t give a dahm about what the pp believes. I want to survive. Even white flashing lights are not seen against a town full of lights. Red is.

Anyway, in this case the lights ware not the issue. The fishing boat was fully lighted. The driver who fled the scene and returned a day later with a lawyer is already free and back in Belgium.

I have a reason to be afraid. We ware hit four times in 30 years of sailing. Two times by slow fishing boats, once by a fast dinghy. All three at night. The fast dinghy passed under our bowsprit. I found blood and skin on the bobstay chain. That was in Turkey, probably a kid working on one of those gullets. The foremost red flashing light hangs on the very tip of the bowsprit. At anchor during the day I have a medium size flag hanging from the bowsprit. During daytime a Hydra water taxi crashed into it. He was manoeuvring backwards, turned around our anchored boat and broke the jib pole. He was the only one who not fled the scene.

 

[OldBawley]

Whilst typing this a big gullet with American flag anchored / moored next to me. I know, the floating hotel is not American. And what is moored at the side of the gullet ? Yes, one of those black 10 meter ribs.
This one has only two outboards, lets say max 500 HP. The thing is not the dinghy, they have a smaller rib as a dinghy. It is the toy. The toy that should be forbidden.
I don´t like policing, I hate policing. Those toys are killers. Even in daylight they go at 30 knots through an anchorage with lots of swimmers. ( Russian bay )
We all know what the Greek Port Police is policing.

End of rant.

 

[GTom]

For those who love anchoring with a masthead anchoring light, again some dead people due to one of those big overpowered ribs who are so “in “nowadays.
During the night the powerboat just ran over the fishing boat who was pulling his nets.
It is impossible to pull fishing nets in the dark, those fishing boats have a sea of light.
We ware in Porto Cheli some days ago, we have a dark boat so I had three flashing red lights and the whole night a extreme bright cockpit light on.
Still one night one of these black 30 feet ribs with 900 HP on it passed us so close his wake put our cockpit under water. Have seen some pics, think it is the same boat that almost hit us.
Last year it was Aegina, now Porto Cheli, maybe tomorrow Poros. At least six of those black killers on the water today in Poros. And why ? The passengers shout youhou when they pass. And their bitches shriek.

I don't see how some dim lights would protect you, get some of these in a tight pattern:



Unfortunately most chandlers run out of stock about 70 years ago...

 

[RupertW]

I despise people with flashing lights and red of all colours - irresponsible, confusing, irritating to others and daft. Have a flood of white lights at deck level by all means but red flashing? Dear God.

But I suspect I’ve just been successfully trolled by somebody pretending to be inventively dangerous and unseamanlike.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I despise people with flashing lights and red of all colours - irresponsible, confusing, irritating to others and daft. Have a flood of white lights at deck level by all means but red flashing? Dear God.

But I suspect I’ve just been successfully trolled by somebody pretending to be inventively dangerous and unseamanlike.

I thought the same ..I sailed exactly the same area for twenty years, never had a problem displaying the correct lights.
Port Police are saying the fishing "boat "did not have any lights at all ,and it was run down in the night , two men dead and a woman very seriously injured.

 

[Old Bumbulum]

I despise people with flashing lights and red of all colours - irresponsible, confusing, irritating to others and daft. Have a flood of white lights at deck level by all means but red flashing? Dear God.

But I suspect I’ve just been successfully trolled by somebody pretending to be inventively dangerous and unseamanlike.

+1

 

[GTom]

I despise people with flashing lights and red of all colours - irresponsible, confusing, irritating to others and daft. Have a flood of white lights at deck level by all means but red flashing? Dear God.

But I suspect I’ve just been successfully trolled by somebody pretending to be inventively dangerous and unseamanlike.

Agreed, I keel a solar garden light on board. Gives a silhouette and some deck details without annoying the neighbors. Not very strong though.

 

[OldBawley]

Everybody who has pulled nets knows it is not possible to do so without light. I have laid nets for 11 years, have experience. Fishing boats working always have a sea of light.. I have anchored lots and lots of times in the area where the accident happened, have never ever seen a fishing boat without lights. And the first version of the PP was that the fishing boat had its lights on. How and why they changed their observation is weird. To say the least.
Also extremely weird that the driver first disappeared for a day, then returned with a lawyer. Not some lawyer, the lawyer.
We anchor every night, summer, winter, and in between and did so for the last 30 years. Needed a lot of new chains.
Our boat is black, is almost invisible in the dark and I anchor often in places where the locals don´t expect an anchoring yacht. I also like anchoring between yachts left for months on a mooring. Those yachts have no lights on and locals have been powering through those fields for years, they don´t expect a strange duck between the hens. So for 29 years I used white anchoring light on deck level, was hit 3 times, twice by fishing boats returning from pulling nets. Both fled, I found them anyway. Where our damage was small, their wooden boats ware badly damaged. After having a look at those boats I knew that they ware owned by people who could only afford a fake insurance.
Lots and lots of Turkish people had those insurances, they costed in those days 11 YTL / year. That is 5 € /year. I had a French friend who had such an insurance for his 12 meter steel yacht. Only good for the papers / officials.

As to the despise you feel for me, I pity people who follow stupid rules made centuries ago when yachting and boating was almost non existent. I don´t follow rules who are passed by time. I adapt.

Saw a yacht with a blinking Christmas tree led lighting sling in the mast. Good. Had he had a white masthead light of a white deck light I would not have seen him in front of the thousends of lights of the town.

 

[Richard10002]

When anchoring I used to use the masthead light plus 2 battery operated LED lanterns at deck level.... on at the bow, and another at the back end of the boom, lower then the front one. Easy to see from a distance, and made my boat easily recognisable when returning in the dinghy.

I'm not sure how appropriate a red light would be but, in dangerous situations, perhaps anything that makes other boats stop and wonder, is a good thing.

What would I have been confused with if i had hung a red light as well as my white lights?

 

[OldBawley]

What would I have been confused with if i had hung a red light as well as my white lights?

No idea how it is in GB, here in Greece red flashing means a fixed obstacle. End of a peer, end of a pontoon. Yellow flashing is for fast people carrying craft. Ferry´s and watertaxi´s.

Just to give an idea. The pic is a small waterfront town in Greece. Pic taken during winter.
So imagine the same town in summer. Winter population 4000 summer 35.000.
All closed in winter taverna´s ( 300 ? ) and bars are now open and lighted. So are the 400 yachts in front of the town plus the 400 anchored in front of the town.

What do you see ?
And what does a drunk in a 30 kn bullet boat see ?
And what about if there are 6 of those fast boats playing in the dark ?

 

[greeny]

Maybe if these fast boats just slowed down and exercised what at one time would have been seen as good seamanship then the need for muticoloured lighting systems and the ensuing arguments for and against would not be necessary.
Unfortunately the drivers of these boats are not good seaman and should never be allowed at the wheel of any craft (exception of maybe a pedalo).
With their attitude to safety they should probably not be allowed to drive a car either. They are probably the same people that drive down the outside lane of a motorway at 100 mph in thick fog or heavy rain.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I have to say I use to be irritated by flashing white light , two years ago after being hit just below my anchor light hanging from my fro deck by the way the guy hit me just below the light on the bow , I decided to buy a white flashing light , now I have my white non flashing anchor light which keep me legal at the same time the flashing one to get more notice ,
Is came in very useful find the boat coming back at night .
Can I say just one thing guys some of us old sea dogs just refuse to move with the times,
I can almost say if them who don't have one tried one you won't be removing it no time soon .
Personlly I wouldn't be useing red or green light .

 

[Tony Cross]

The problem it seems is irresponsible skippers motoring at excessive speeds in an anchorage or when boats might reasonably expected to be at anchor. I don't believe the solution is to show the wrong light yourselves, no matter how visible you think you make yourself. The Colregs apply to everybody.

If I was at anchor in the dark and one of these fast RHIBs was motoring at speed in my anchorage I would get on the VHF to the coastguard, and if they didn't answer then Olympia Radio, and complain in no uncertain terms about the dangerous behaviour of the RHIB in a crowded anchorage. If, as in the case of the gullet mentioned, you know what boat it's from then so much the better.

It does absolutely no good to suggest that the Greek port police don't police their own if nobody ever complains when they're being stupid. In my (quite long now) experience of living here it is simply not true that the authorities 'go easy' on locals and crack down on visitors. They can, and do, hurt locals in many more ways than are available to them with a visitor.

 

[geem]

I hate flashing lights on anchored boats. Coloured flashing lights are even worse and colour changing flashing lights are just crazy. I have seen them all. In the situation where you are hit by a rib and the occupants are killed, you are the one breaking the law. You are the one that will be in prison. Why do it? Comply with the law or see the law used against you. If you want to be seen then use led spot lights to illuminate the boat. You dont need coloured lights if the whole boat can be seen. Ok, it might take more power to run them but its legal and it works. Its what we do in busy anchorages. An led white flood light illuminates the boat from the bow, a bright white led light hangs from the mizzen boom and an anchor light at the masthead. It works and its legal.

 

[OldBawley]

My rant was not about lights, for me you can all use whatever you think is appropriate to the situation.
Hell, I used a petroleum anchor light for years, but then I was sailing the North Sea where high power speed vessels did not exist.

My rant was about the use of high speed boats in places not suited for them. Out at sea, they should be, not in harbour entrances or crowded lake like bays.

Not that they can´t be dangerous at sea. Two weeks ago we ware sailing our little old boat at sea.
I saw a big super yacht passing, it was just clearing the tip of Spetses island so instinctively I knew the big boat was passing about a mile away. Noticed the big yacht made big waves.
We ware sailing 5 knots close to the wind in a flat sea, suddenly I saw those waves coming at us, and they ware braking waves. With a big white crest on top.
They hit us broadside. Everything inside the ( liveaboard ) boat changed place, a big splash of seawater filled our cockpit, and the head of the autopilot actuator broke off. Had I been steering by hand, the tiller would have broken my hand. ( Our rudder weighs 75 kg ) Later I found that the yawl lugsail had big tear at the bottom of the sail. That sail lives just 4 feet above the water, must have had a splash.
Normal sea waves lift our boat, no problem. Not in the last 80 years of intensive sailing. These fast running waves create a trough and 4 or 5 yards further a two yard high crest that is so fast that the heavy boat has no time to lift.
I have no idea how fast the bow wave of a 30 knot boat is, I do know that the weight of the water hitting us at high speed is 60.000 kg.

Ok, I know, I should have been more attentive, my fault.

Yesterday a biggish ( 90 feet ) motor yacht ploughed into Russian bay anchorage creating 3 feet hight crested waves. Why ?? they have to go full astern to stop. From my neighbour yacht some people ware in the water, taking a swim. The older lady just boarded the sugar scoop mounted swimming ladder and did so in a bad moment.
The waves hit the Italian boat, scoop started bouncing up and down about 5 feet. The women was hit in the face by the sugar scoop / boarding ladder and was seriously wounded.
I rowed over to help the lady out of the water and tell them that a small clinic is in the camping ground of Galatas.

 

[OldBawley]

I In the situation where you are hit by a rib and the occupants are killed, you are the one breaking the law. You are the one that will be in prison. Why do it? Comply with the law or see the law used against you.

I have the impression you did not get it. It is not the people in the big rib that died, they ware unharmed. It ware the fisherman trying to earn a living that ware killed. And they ware carrying light according to the law. What is the use of being correct to an outdated law if you are dead ?
As to being in prison, after a fist dispute with a big boat owner he Turkish Gendarma came to arrest me on my anchored boat and put me in jail. Yes I had seen the film Midnight express so I was not happy.
Could leave the same day, but I learned a lot that day. A lot less explosive these days.

As to been seen, up to last year when anchored in a busy spot like Porto Cheli with its flashing high speed water taxi´s speeding trough the anchorage I used a big led spot that I directed onto a white bed sheet flapping in the wind on the foredeck. Sometimes a bit noisy.
We have to be extra careful, dark boat.

 

[greeny]

How do people manage to sleep at night when anchored in these high speed anchoring areas. You have to put a lot of trust in the drivers of these boats or lose a lot of sleep I guess.

 

[geem]

I have the impression you did not get it. It is not the people in the big rib that died, they ware unharmed. It ware the fisherman trying to earn a living that ware killed. And they ware carrying light according to the law. What is the use of being correct to an outdated law if you are dead ?
As to being in prison, after a fist dispute with a big boat owner he Turkish Gendarma came to arrest me on my anchored boat and put me in jail. Yes I had seen the film Midnight express so I was not happy.
Could leave the same day, but I learned a lot that day. A lot less explosive these days.

As to been seen, up to last year when anchored in a busy spot like Porto Cheli with its flashing high speed water taxi´s speeding trough the anchorage I used a big led spot that I directed onto a white bed sheet flapping in the wind on the foredeck. Sometimes a bit noisy.
We have to be extra careful, dark boat.

I get it! I can read what you say. The answer is not to add multicoloured lights. If everybody adopted your approach you wouldn't be any better off. Everybody would be flashing all sorts of colours and you wouldn't stand out. We see lots of inadequately illuminated boats. Tiny little led garden lights or no lights at all. Nobody runs in to a moored super yacht lit up like a xmas tree. The point is the boat is lit not just the lights. Just light the boat up and stay legal. I understand that a fisherman got killed but if there is a real problem with high speed craft then that needs sorting not adding coloured lights to everything. How do you determine a marked channel through an anchorage if everybody is flashing red lights! Its stupid and those using such lights in my opinion are as bad as those speeding. Both can cause accidents and injury or even death.