The Internet as a source of marine Safety Information

[franksingleton]

The Internet is here to stay and sailors are going to use it increasingly as a means of obtaining Marine Safety Information. Mainly weather forecasts but potentially for navigation warnings also. This can be as an alternative to conventional MSI broadcasts or when MSI broadcasts have not been received.

There is no problem when broadband Internet access is available but, very obviously, this cannot always be the case. At sea Internet access may be only by means of email either over a satellite phone or using HF radio with a modem. Near or on land, broadband (3G or 4G) may not be available for a variety of reasons. In such cases, it may be possible to use email over 2G networks or the General Packet Radio System.

To be able to access web pages via email necessitates knowing the URL of pages required. In other words they have to be bookmarked. For weather forecasts, that is often the case. However, some national weather services, Météo France in particular, are not putting their marine weather services on pages that can be bookmarked. DWD and Spain also have some pages similarly. If this practice becomes widespread then it will become increasingly difficult to use the Internet when GMDSS broadcasts are not available.

Several (many?) countries put other MSI, primarily navigation warnings, on-line but rarely in an easily accessible form. An exception is Germany which has a page that can be bookmarked. This has texts of NAVTEX messages for the Nordsee and Ostsee from both the international NAVTEX. 518 kHz broadcasts and the national NAVTEX, 490 kHz broadcasts.

I suggest that IMO should be aware of the increasing use of the Internet on non-convention vessels and consider the implications for marine safety. From a user point of view the following is a list of requirements.

1. All weather and navigation MSI should be readily and easily available on-line.

2. MSI websites should have good, rapid updating procedures.

3. All MSI pages should be capable of being bookmarked.

4. MSI URLs should not be changed without adequate notice and overlapping.

5. Changes to MSI web page locations should always have “redirect” facilities.


There are links to Météo France texts on my site, eg http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Northwest-European-Marine-Weather-Forecast-Texts and on http://www.meteo-marine.com/meteo-marine/bulletins-cote.htm but these are rather grace and favour. Météo France could block them at any time.

An article in the January RIN Navigation News makes these points. Should we be pushing IMO or does it not really matter?

 

[GHA]

An article in the January RIN Navigation News makes these points. Should we be pushing IMO or does it not really matter?

I think weather isn't too bad , many of those on low bandwidth probably use a mailback system such as mailasail. Outside of weather forecasts and weather warnings repeated elsewhere Navtex seems close to invisible online, having access to that online would be a great benefit, it seems crazy that it isn't there already.

And agree with the other points, the IMO really should be joining in with the rest of the world.

 

[pyrojames]

I think weather isn't too bad , many of those on low bandwidth probably use a mailback system such as mailasail. Outside of weather forecasts and weather warnings repeated elsewhere Navtex seems close to invisible online, having access to that online would be a great benefit, it seems crazy that it isn't there already.

And agree with the other points, the IMO really should be joining in with the rest of the world.

The IMO? The International Maritime Organisation which deals with billions of dollars of international shipping every year, should join the rest of the world, I.e. A small percentage of yachtsman who cruise in international waters? I think you might have it the wrong way round. There are plenty of sources of data for coastal cruising, and if you are so far offshore that you can't get them, get a sat phone and data link and have the gribs and weather emailed to you. It's cheap, it's on demand, and you don't need to access the web at all.

 

[Cruiser2B]

You should push your points to your national authority(ies) and they should make the case to IMO - imo (always wanted to do that). I do understand where you're coming from. For reasons of proximity, I find myself using US govt websites (USCG, NOAA, etc) and while they are generous with the information, they have an annoying habit of changing layout and pathways - so a "quick check" soon turns into a redirect from a 'broken URL' to a byzantine search through a "new and improved" site.

 

[GHA]

The IMO? The International Maritime Organisation which deals with billions of dollars of international shipping every year, should join the rest of the world, I.e. A small percentage of yachtsman who cruise in international waters? I think you might have it the wrong way round. There are plenty of sources of data for coastal cruising, and if you are so far offshore that you can't get them, get a sat phone and data link and have the gribs and weather emailed to you. It's cheap, it's on demand, and you don't need to access the web at all.

Offshore i know about, wfax being top of the list. Franks other points made a lot of sense, imho, and as for UK, i take it back about navtex, seems it is online, just not very well known. http://www.ukho.gov.uk/ProductsandServices/MartimeSafety/RNW/Pages/Home.aspx

 

[Sgeir]

Frank, I might suggest a number 6 for your list which would be that bookmarkable marine safety URLs be primarily text based and in small files for easy download.

Shore based people with good connections can use the alternative glitzy bells and whistles versions.

 

[franksingleton]

I think weather isn't too bad , many of those on low bandwidth probably use a mailback system such as mailasail. Outside of weather forecasts and weather warnings repeated elsewhere Navtex seems close to invisible online, having access to that online would be a great benefit, it seems crazy that it isn't there already.

And agree with the other points, the IMO really should be joining in with the rest of the world.

Thanks. The mailback systems used my Saildocs, MailASail, Winloink all require static URLs. Some NAVTEX forecast texts can be found on pages of http://weather.gmdss.org/I.html but not as static links.

Many countries still use static links and I keep reminding the Met Office that they are necessary. But even they now have their marine actuals page in a form that cannot be bookmarked.

 

[franksingleton]

The IMO? The International Maritime Organisation which deals with billions of dollars of international shipping every year, should join the rest of the world, I.e. A small percentage of yachtsman who cruise in international waters? I think you might have it the wrong way round.

I said IMO because the GMDSS – NAVTEX etc are all part of the GMDSS which comes under the IMO wing. I think that it is time that they were reminded that there are many more users of the GMDSS.

There are plenty of sources of data for coastal cruising, and if you are so far offshore that you can't get them, get a sat phone and data link and have the gribs and weather emailed to you. It's cheap, it's on demand, and you don't need to access the web at all.

Someone who sails off the west coast of Scotland might think otherwise. NAVTEX is unreliable because of sky-wave propagation, an intractable problem. VHF reception can be unreliable.

I know that there are good deals with Delorme inReach, for example. but to get texts with a satphone you need static URLs. That is part of my concern.

 

[franksingleton]

You should push your points to your national authority(ies) and they should make the case to IMO - imo (always wanted to do that). I do understand where you're coming from. For reasons of proximity, I find myself using US govt websites (USCG, NOAA, etc) and while they are generous with the information, they have an annoying habit of changing layout and pathways - so a "quick check" soon turns into a redirect from a 'broken URL' to a byzantine search through a "new and improved" site.

I think it really needs a corporate approach. I will try the RYA (again) and may have the attention of the CA. The question of changing URLs can be annoying at best and dangerous at worst. If you are relying on email over a satphone or HF then you can only get the information if you know the URL.

 

[Heckler]

The Internet is here to stay and sailors are going to use it increasingly as a means of obtaining Marine Safety Information. Mainly weather forecasts but potentially for navigation warnings also. This can be as an alternative to conventional MSI broadcasts or when MSI broadcasts have not been received.

There is no problem when broadband Internet access is available but, very obviously, this cannot always be the case. At sea Internet access may be only by means of email either over a satellite phone or using HF radio with a modem. Near or on land, broadband (3G or 4G) may not be available for a variety of reasons. In such cases, it may be possible to use email over 2G networks or the General Packet Radio System.

To be able to access web pages via email necessitates knowing the URL of pages required. In other words they have to be bookmarked. For weather forecasts, that is often the case. However, some national weather services, Météo France in particular, are not putting their marine weather services on pages that can be bookmarked. DWD and Spain also have some pages similarly. If this practice becomes widespread then it will become increasingly difficult to use the Internet when GMDSS broadcasts are not available.

Several (many?) countries put other MSI, primarily navigation warnings, on-line but rarely in an easily accessible form. An exception is Germany which has a page that can be bookmarked. This has texts of NAVTEX messages for the Nordsee and Ostsee from both the international NAVTEX. 518 kHz broadcasts and the national NAVTEX, 490 kHz broadcasts.

I suggest that IMO should be aware of the increasing use of the Internet on non-convention vessels and consider the implications for marine safety. From a user point of view the following is a list of requirements.

1. All weather and navigation MSI should be readily and easily available on-line.

2. MSI websites should have good, rapid updating procedures.

3. All MSI pages should be capable of being bookmarked.

4. MSI URLs should not be changed without adequate notice and overlapping.

5. Changes to MSI web page locations should always have “redirect” facilities.


There are links to Météo France texts on my site, eg http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Northwest-European-Marine-Weather-Forecast-Texts and on http://www.meteo-marine.com/meteo-marine/bulletins-cote.htm but these are rather grace and favour. Météo France could block them at any time.

An article in the January RIN Navigation News makes these points. Should we be pushing IMO or does it not really matter?

Plan A
passageweather.com or xcweather plus a Delorme satellite communicator and a mate. No probs. I think you are looking for an answer to a problem that doesnt exist.
Plan B
CHeap SSB rcvr plus laptop or pad plus a cheap bit of software gives daily weather charts. Again, the solution already exists.
S

 

[franksingleton]

Plan A
passageweather.com or xcweather plus a Delorme satellite communicator and a mate. No probs. I think you are looking for an answer to a problem that doesnt exist.

These are not GMDSS services i.e. no worded forecasts, no warnings. What would it cost to download charts from these sources? With the Delorme you can get email so should be able to get forecasts and warnings - providing they have static URLs.

Plan B
CHeap SSB rcvr plus laptop or pad plus a cheap bit of software gives daily weather charts. Again, the solution already exists.
S

I have done that. With only a HF.SSB receiver you can get charts and some texts of forecasts. It does depend upon reception conditions. On an ocean crossing you probably have the time and experience to do that reasonably reliably. Your average coast hoper will rarely have the expertise. In any case few will want to wait 20 minutes for a single chart to arrive. They want to go sailing.

The information is available on-line, so why not make it available to all whether they are using cell phone, satphone or HF/SSB? The GMDSS is all about supplying safety information to all mariners who are supposed (SOLAS V) to be using (GMDSS) forecast services before going to sea and when at sea. All I am really asking is for IMO to recognise that we are in the 21st century and request their member countries to ensure that MSI is readily available to all.

 

[alan_d]

...Your average coast hoper ...

Oh, I do like that.
I have sometimes thought of myself as a coast-hopper, but coast-hoper sounds much more ... aspirational.

 

[Uricanejack]

My main concern is the IMO keep the existing radio formats available. With the current trend to reduce expenditure, services which require resources particularly human yet only serve a few voters are particularly vulnerable to cutback.
The internet is becoming the average governments, low cost way to disseminate information. Which is fine if you are on a large ship with fully gyro stabilized satellite link. Not a lot of help to me on my old outdated boat.
Not sailing in UK waters I have not really checked out what is available.
Government sites, in both the USA and Canada, do provide the full spectrum of Nav safety information on line. For some as tech challenged as me to be able to find it. It can't be to hard.
I routinely print out the The Monthly Edition of the Notices to Mariners Western Region.
The Americans have virtually everything even charts on line.
Best to lobby through the RYA for the UK government to provide the service you require in the UK. and put forward to IMO

 

[franksingleton]

My main concern is the IMO keep the existing radio formats available. With the current trend to reduce expenditure, services which require resources particularly human yet only serve a few voters are particularly vulnerable to cutback.

I think (hope?) that the conventional broadcasting of MSI is underpinned by the international convention, SOLAS. Of course, there are dangers that nations will cut back to the minimum. Some, the UK and US among them, broadcast more than the minimum of two forecasts a day. That is a hostage to fortune.

The internet is becoming the average governments, low cost way to disseminate information. Which is fine if you are on a large ship with fully gyro stabilized satellite link. Not a lot of help to me on my old outdated boat.

I would never advocate not being able to receive MSI via conventional means. I am trying to cover those that do not and, in some cases, cannot.

Not sailing in UK waters I have not really checked out what is available.
Government sites, in both the USA and Canada, do provide the full spectrum of Nav safety information on line. For some as tech challenged as me to be able to find it. It can't be to hard.
I routinely print out the The Monthly Edition of the Notices to Mariners Western Region.
The Americans have virtually everything even charts on line.

For the UK, I think that it is all there. I do not think that it is particularly easy to use. When sailing, I find that NAVTEX is the easiest way to get NAV warnings, especially when abroad.

Best to lobby through the RYA for the UK government to provide the service you require in the UK. and put forward to IMO

I am hoping that the RYA and CA will pick up the baton.

 

[franksingleton]

Back to my OP, Météo France has now made it impossible to bookmark any French marine forecast. Links that were on my site and at www.meteo-marine.com/meteo-marine have now been blocked. They can only be seen from a clumsy menu driven system at http://www.meteofrance.com/previsions-meteo-marine/bulletin That means that French Marine forecasts can only be seen on-line with broadband access. For some, that will make them totally inaccessible.

The sole exception is for high seas forecasts at http://weather.gmdss.org/. Metarea 2 High Seas is at http://weather.gmdss.org/navimail/GMDSS_METAREA2_INMARSAT and Metarea 3 (West) is at http://weather.gmdss.org/navimail/GMDSS_METAREA3-W_INMARSAT.

I have given this publicity on my site at http://weather.mailasail.com/Franks-Weather/Gmdss-What-Is-The-Future and in the January 2015 Navigation News.

I believe that the action of the French is totally irresponsible. I can only suggest that sailors make their views strongly to Météo France and try to get French colleagues to do likewise. Life at sea is now less safe than previously.

 

[Roberto]

I believe that the action of the French is totally irresponsible. I can only suggest that sailors make their views strongly to Météo France and try to get French colleagues to do likewise. Life at sea is now less safe than previously.

Hello Frank,

a number of persons in France has asked MF to keep email availability of their coastal bulletins, the answer has been "we find our bulletins in a lot of other sites which do not even mention the source, this is not acceptable". For what it is worth...

Locally, there is quite a competition with "meteo consult", a private weather firm which is owned by "le figaro" media group (I am sure you have seen their bulletins at almost every french marina), I am not sure of what explains what, but that's the situation..

regards
r

 

[franksingleton]

Hello Frank,

a number of persons in France has asked MF to keep email availability of their coastal bulletins, the answer has been "we find our bulletins in a lot of other sites which do not even mention the source, this is not acceptable". For what it is worth...

Locally, there is quite a competition with "meteo consult", a private weather firm which is owned by "le figaro" media group (I am sure you have seen their bulletins at almost every french marina), I am not sure of what explains what, but that's the situation..

regards
r

Good to hear from you Roberto. Are you still near Lorient? We hope to be in the area again this year. With advancing age our horizons are not so great as in the past.

The MF explanation is garbage. They provide the GMDSS information that everyone should have before going to and while at sea. Whether sailors get it directly from MF or via a third party should not matter.

Whet should matter is that sailors should be able to get GMDSS safety information wherever they are. Blocking sites such as mine and Meteo Marine that gave access to the texts – as MF used to do themselves – prevents some of those at sea or without 3G being able to do so.

Given the unreliability of NAVTEX and the fact the CROSS only broadcast forecasts 3 times daily , the Internet service is a valuable resource. The UK does broadcast inshore forecasts 8 times daily with 4 updates. Texts of the forecasts are available, bookmarked without advertisements. MF seems to be forgetting one of their most important functions – to provide safety information accessible to all.

MeteoConsult is an automated service. Almost certainly based on the GFS; just possibly ECMWF.

I would not go to sea on the basis of MC alone. I have seen tem predict good visibility when MF were saying, correctly, Fog 50 metres. I have seen them under predict winds by a couple of forces relative to GMDSS services. Much of the time, they will be OK. The lack of human input and vetting does compromise their mass produced output. The “precision” implied by the size of their forecast areas is meaningless in a 24 hour forecast.

 

[Roberto]

Good to hear from you Roberto. Are you still near Lorient? We hope to be in the area again this year. With advancing age our horizons are not so great as in the past.

Yes I'll be around the whole summer, just painted the antifouling. If you see us (usual multicoloured boat canvas) do come by, hopefully I'll see Anhinga

Given the unreliability of NAVTEX and the fact the CROSS only broadcast forecasts 3 times daily , the Internet service is a valuable resource. The UK does broadcast inshore forecasts 8 times daily with 4 updates. Texts of the forecasts are available, bookmarked without advertisements. MF seems to be forgetting one of their most important functions – to provide safety information accessible to all.

I agree about MF, though to be fair they have slightly modified the access to their data.

This for example is a direct link for mobiles to the South Brittany coastal 7day bulletin

http://www.meteo-france.mobi/home#!marine_bulletin_7j_4

Re: email requests, the saildocs does not work any more, though bulletins (both coastal and offshore) can be had by query to the Navimail server.
Example, send an email to "navimail@meteo.fr", Message title irrelevant, in the body of the message the following syntax

@mto@reqt@bull@
COTE_GASCOGNE_PEN-AIG
noattach
@mto@reqt@fin@

and one gets the reply email with the bulletin.
There is the offshore bulletin "Inter service mer", which covers parts of Metarea I and Metarea II, syntax:

@mto@reqt@bull@
INTER_SERVICE_MER
@mto@reqt@fin@

Cross has also set-up continuous broadcast of coastal bulletins on VHF channel 63 (for once, they copied from the Italians ), there are the usual three daily updates.

hope to see you this summer

regards
roberto

 

[Tony Cross]

The MF explanation is garbage. They provide the GMDSS information that everyone should have before going to and while at sea. Whether sailors get it directly from MF or via a third party should not matter.

Well it might Frank. A lot of websites make their money from hosting adverts on their pages. If people get the info from other sites MF get no advertising revenue. Similarly, if you link directly to the info page without visiting the home page they may also lose advertising revenue. I suspect that has more to do with it.

 

[franksingleton]

I agree about MF, though to be fair they have slightly modified the access to their data.

This for example is a direct link for mobiles to the South Brittany coastal 7day bulletin

http://www.meteo-france.mobi/home#!marine_bulletin_7j_4

Re: email requests, the saildocs does not work any more, though bulletins (both coastal and offshore) can be had by query to the Navimail server.
Example, send an email to "navimail@meteo.fr", Message title irrelevant, in the body of the message the following syntax

@mto@reqt@bull@
COTE_GASCOGNE_PEN-AIG
Noattach
@mto@reqt@fin@

and one gets the reply email with the bulletin.
There is the offshore bulletin "Inter service mer", which covers parts of Metarea I and Metarea II, syntax:

@mto@reqt@bull@
INTER_SERVICE_MER
@mto@reqt@fin@

Cross has also set-up continuous broadcast of coastal bulletins on VHF channel 63 (for once, they copied from the Italians ), there are the usual three daily updates.
……….

Thanks, Roberto. That seems to be a change of heart – partly.

Saildocs will work from http://www.meteofrance.com/previsions-meteo-marine/bulletin?type=cote&zone=3

The Bulletins au large are still not available other than, as you say, via Navimil. The problem with Navimail is that it seems a rather p[aque system for non-French speakers.