The Horseshoe and Dan Buoy

[Magic_Sailor]

No, not a new vomit inducing pub name but a question put to me when teaching recently. As follows:

"Should you tie your horseshoe to your dan buoy? If so, why?

What would your answer have been?

Magic

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[Little_Russel]

I'm not sure what a horseshoe is doing on a boat in the first place. Is it for good luck?

<hr width=100% size=1>Sail the Se7en seas...

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Yes mine are tied together, with the line suitably free to run, ie not through the guard rails etc.

My theory is that the MOB will hopefully be in the horseshoe, and the danbuoy will give me a much better indication of where to go back.

No point in the horseshoe being one place and the danbuoy somewhere else.

I stand to be corrected, however. Always happy to learn.

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[Magic_Sailor]

Oooh you wag you! nm

.

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[peterb]

My experience is that the line between the horseshoe and the danbuoy is just another obstruction to a quick launch of either. Throwing the danbuoy unencumbered gives a good aiming point, followed up by the horseshoe to give extra buoyancy. The horseshoe should also be able to double as a lifting strop, though whether commercial horseshoes without modification can do this is open to doubt.

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[oldsaltoz]

If you only have one, no. If you have 2, yes.

We had 2, so one was tied to the dan-buoy.

Reason: when someone goes over the side, it can take a few seconds to react, and by the time you have pulled the dan_buoy from it's tube and the horseshoe from its bracket the person is some distance behind you.

Throwing the first horseshoe aft without the dan-buoy will get much closer to the MOB, the dan-buoy can then be deployed to indicate the location when heading back.

I have seen racing yachts with dan-buoys secured to the back-stay with velcro straps at the top and a tube on the transom, it can take precious time to undo and lift this, then lift the horseshoe out and throw the unwieldy bundle over.

A simple PVC tube thru' the transom and run along under the deck to hull join takes up no space, keeps the dan-buoy out of the way, and when launching, the horseshoe is thrown first and the drag on the line attached helps to pull it from the tube.

You can even extend this tube to the toilet / shower area and fit an in line fan to extract the steam, very handy on a small boat with the thunder box next to your bunk.

I hope this helps...



<hr width=100% size=1> Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif Growing old is unavoidable. However, growing up is still optional.

 

[LadyInBed]

My starboard horseshoe is set up to be shackled to the dan buoy, but I came to the conclusion that the time taken to release the dan buoy and the horseshoe is excessive. I think to leave a trail might be a better idea, throw the horseshoe then the dan buoy, then when back tracking, home in on the dan buoy then locating the horseshoe, this should give a line of approach to the MOB. Then just hope and pray!
For night time and lumpy weather I have also invested in a couple of strobe lights for crew on watch to keep in their pockets, I am also wondering if they should have a pack of mini flares. What think you all?


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[Magic_Sailor]

Not a critiscism

Because I don't think there's a correct answer.

But I can't now see the benefit of the hs connected to the db - as the db is only marking the mob spot roughly in your description.

Magic

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[oldsaltoz]

Re: Not a critiscism

I agree, there may not be a correct answer, but attaching the horseshoe to the dan-buoy helps launch it from the tube with the drag it provides.

Old Salt Oz /forums/images/icons/cool.gif Growing old is unavoidable. However, growing up is still optional.

 

[Fill]

The leaflet we got with our danbuoy said tie to the horseshoe as the danbuoy, being deep in the water will keep going more or less with the tide - as per MOB - the horseshoe floating on top of the water will be blown away, (unless, or even if, you've got a drogue tied on it). Secondly the MOB - unless you are very quick at deploying the things - won't be able to see the horseshoe as it'll be too far away and hidden by waves. They'll stand a better chance of seeing the danbuoy flag or light and may be able to get to the horseshoe.



<hr width=100% size=1>Fill

 

[MainlySteam]

If one wants to use it for guidance the ISAF Offshore Special Regulations require the dan buoy to be connected to a lifebuoy with 3 m of floating line, for those Categories required to carry a dan buoy, and is all to be within reach of the helmsman. I personally think that is the very best advice as the lifebuoy is deployed for the casualty to use for flotation and the dan buoy to mark the location of the lifebuoy, hopefully with the casualty in it. Their primary purpose is not to mark the way back nor mark the location of where the casualty hit the water.

Our own is set up on a tube through the transom just as Oldsaltoz describes, with its attached lifebuoy, drogue and light hung on the pushpit beside it. The floating line is pushed into the tube after the dan buoy so that it pulls out when the lifebuoy is deployed. The light is clipped to the rail so it just pulls out (rather than the baskets they are often in) and the lifebuoy restrained on its hanger with light shockcord attached to the buoy and looped around the hanger with a parrel bead to prevent accidental loss but which pulls undone if the buoy is pulled. The drogue is tucked under the shockcord. We have nothing on our transom that any of it is able to be snagged on.

With that we can deploy the lifebuoy and have the danbuoy out before the line between the lifebuoy and danbuoy comes taught (ie before the boat starts towing the lifebuoy because the danbuoy has failed to be deployed). People talk about throwing the lifebuoy but in my opinion that is not the correct way as in any MOB incident where location and recovery of the casualty is likely to be a problem, by the time one has swung the buoy and thrown, unless one has an Olympic medal in discus throwing, the boat will have travelled further than one can throw the buoy anyway ie there is nothing to be gained by throwing. In my view the buoy should just be instantly dropped straight into the sea behind the boat by the helmsman with the boat left free to its own devices to round up and stop unless there are other crew immediately on hand to recover the helm and bring the boat around.

My own views only.

John

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[StugeronSteve]

One horse shoe free, one attached to danbuoy (line flaked, not coiled, and strapped to HS with the securing shockcord loop). If casualty is conscious and capable of holding the line I feel MOB recovery will be simpler when you can pick up the danbuoy and pull casualty along side on rope, without the need to sail tight up alongside him and risk of injury. In theory anyway! I have also secured a simple MOB light to the danbuoy which illuminates the flag beautifully at night.

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[ccscott49]

You should have two life rings and yes one should be tied to the danbouy. Thats as a solas reccomendation, which I as one of many agree with, the casualty can hopefully see the danbouy and know there is a life ring there, also you have more chance of seeing the danbouy than a lifering. The life ring on it`s own, will drift far faster than if attached to a danbouy.

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[qsiv]

Theres nothing to prevent each lifebouy having it's own drogue to try and slow it down ...

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[ccscott49]

No, you are quite right! But why not tie one to the danbouy, that was the question, I think /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[maxxi]

Yes, certainly yes. Think about it from the point of view of the man overboard. If there is any sort of a sea the lifebuoy will be hidden for, say, 85% of the time by the waves between the man and the buoy. The addition of the danbuoy lets him see where it is that safety lies, and he can make his way to the life buoy.
Next time you go sea swimming, try it for yourself.

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[LadyInBed]

>all to be within reach of the helmsman<
Probably feasible where the helm is practically dragging his arse over the stern, but much more difficult to achieve on a centre cockpit ketch.

I would heave to (or at least spinning the helm and backing the jib) before clambering aft to deploy db / hs. 'course I am always looking at the situation from a short handed point of view, things must be different sailing mob handed.


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[MainlySteam]

Yes, our helm is right aft. The helmsman can release either horseshoe without letting go of the wheel and in the case of the one attached to the dan buoy, only has to release the wheel for a couple of seconds to reach through the pushpit and pull it from the tube.

I have seen centre cockpit boats with the dan buoy beside the cockpit but have not looked closely as to the exact arrangement (there are not very many small centre cockpit yachts out here in comparison to aft ones).

Regards

John

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[Magic_Sailor]

Out of interest

And connected to my other kind of boaty post.

I submitted a form on this question to RYA.

No repsonse at all!


Magic

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[Twister_Ken]

Don\'t hold your breath

They'll be setting up a committee to decide whether to set up a committee to look into it.

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