The Herreshoff Anchor

[TNLI]

Makes perfect sense that the best anchor ever made should be sold on a made to order basis.

Congratulations on your search.

Yep it's been a real tough one, and as no one ever seems to sell a used bronze Herreshoff with its associated certificates, I've briefed my credit card company to brace themselves for a serious shock, as I suspect the bill will be around 1500 quid for the 17 lb version. Alas you get what you pay for !!

CONDENSED FINAL VERSION FOR A LECTURE:

THE HERRESHOFF AND OTHER OLD ANCHORS STILL IN CURRENT PRODUCTION
One of the most common causes of yachts lost from anchor, if you exclude gear failure, (Mostly chafe related), and bad copies of good anchor designs that bent, or in the case of kit built anchors, fell apart, was too much weed in the anchor stopping it resetting after a serious wind shift or initial dragging. The reliance upon a single anchor and associated rode was in reality a gamble, because the shark or crocodile risk in combination with cloudy or cold waters meant that few crews or skippers were able to confirm if their anchor, or anchors had set correctly, or were hung up in debris or a clump of weed. All it takes is one tin can or a brick to fool even the best skippers into thinking their anchor has set, when it has not.
So back to an era when the Spade and Fortress were the only new generation anchors available, and a time when I thought that the 3 piece bronze Herreshoff was something only the Germans used, (I only had a cheap bar type fishermans for deep water short scoping, or rocks & heavy weed, but hopeless in mud or sand).

Anchor Reset Tests - Practical Sailor (practical-sailor.com) Bends and Breaks:

Anchor Shank Strength - Practical Sailor (practical-sailor.com)

Rocna Resetting Failures and evaluation of Vulcan and Mantus (morganscloud.com) CQR vs. Delta. Anchor Test Video # 124 - YouTube

If I ever get caught in another serious storm at anchor, I will deploy a genuine unworn CQR and a bronze original Herreshoff, (30 degrees apart on 2 chain rodes). If I can't use enough chain for a CQR, I will deploy a Spade.

PS: Steve of SV Penope You tube fame has only just started to test anchors, as it's a very long complex task, and he has yet to include or rank anchors correctly in strength terms due to lack of test gear. Alas he has not tested a late model bronze Herreshoff, just the early Mk 1 that I have a folding copy of.

 

[Neeves]

Why would I think that sarcasm won’t be understood by some people?

Oh, ye of little faith.

Sadly I think whatever might be said - it will be ignored. Duck's backs come to mind.

In the meantime I'm pondering what size of vessel would have an owner hankering after a 7.5lb or 17lb storm anchor (aka Herreshoff) - in bronze, or made from anything. I'm also wondering about the size 7.5lb - seems a bit of a contradiction - should it not be 7lbs 8ozs....or am I being picky of the wrong characteristics.

Jonathan

 

[TNLI]

Makes perfect sense that the best anchor ever made should be sold on a made to order basis.

Congratulations on your search.

Just to correct that, the 2 anchors are for 2 different classes of Herreshoff yachts, so there is a slim chance they have a 17 lb one in stock. They can make larger versions, but only owners of new Oysters could afford them.

If Herreshoff team, (3 men and 2 dogs), do know another company in the USA that can make large bronze anchors, and their anchors are the second most expensive ones often found on the bow of a top of the range superyacht or gin palace:

 

[Poignard]

Why would I think that sarcasm won’t be understood by some people?

Or irony.

 

[vyv_cox]

Oh, ye of little faith.

Sadly I think whatever might be said - it will be ignored. Duck's backs come to mind.

In the meantime I'm pondering what size of vessel would have an owner hankering after a 7.5lb or 17lb storm anchor (aka Herreshoff) - in bronze, or made from anything. I'm also wondering about the size 7.5lb - seems a bit of a contradiction - should it not be 7lbs 8ozs....or am I being picky of the wrong characteristics.

Jonathan

I see the weight recommendation from Luke is 2 lbs per foot of boat length. No wonder nobody uses them. Why does a Herreshoff for a 25 ft boat need to weigh only 17 lbs?

 

[TNLI]

At a boat show a couple of years ago I was talking to a very experienced yachtsman called Don Street, who has cruised widely in 'Iolaire', and he told me the best all-purpose anchor is the Herreshoff anchor.
I had never heard of it before, and I have never seen one in this country. I have googled it and it looks like a fisherman anchor with extra large flukes.
Anyone here tried one? Any good?

Yep, Don Street really did know his ar5se from his elbow about anchors, although I doubt if he could afford a new bronze genuine fully certficated Herreshoff, that is slightly better in sand than the one Don would have used. Do you know if he used a genuine steel CQR or not ??

Boomerangben:

I'm talking to parts suppliers and second hand supply companies every day, BUT, my anchors are in the back garden until I finish building my offshore self righting lifeboat with a folding A frame mast, (Square sail or trysail and jib or genoa), for a potential second singlehanded circumnavigation. In the unlikely event I survive the build and test program in the Portland race, I might well set sail with 1000 nm of reserve fuel for a new keel cooled Beta 30 that is being installed later this week. This time I will go for a faster route, probably via the Cannery Islands, Magellans short cut or the Horn, but then North West to Fiji, (Very good stores, engineering and R&R), then Darwin and Richards Bay South Africa, Fortelaza in NE Brazil, Bermuda and back to Blighty. Very vague plan, as I failed to sop at Bora Bora last time, and might wish to go down South again to New Zealand for the Typhoon season. I'm not too concerned about sailing a good boat during typhon season unless it's across an area where you could get cornered like Northern Australia. I like going slowly across any warm fishy areas, as you get some real interesting visitors, including a teenage grey whale that stayed near my old steel yacht for nearly the entire weeks sail from the Tahiti to Tonga, as I was doing almost the same spped as a small whale, around 4 to 5kts max. That whale was heading for a known feeding and breeding ground just West of Tonga, and stayed with me until the entrance marker for Vavau.

Practical_Sailor_Jan_01.pdf (plaisance-pratique.com)

One important point is that results table is based on anchor deck area, (Size), as far as I can tell, as that is the limiting factor for many boats, it's not based on a daft weight comparison, which is of no real interest if you have a windlass or tough arms. It also avoids encouraging ultra light bendable or breakable anchors. In reality it would be good to see a second weight vs performance table for the manual only small boat users.

vyc_cox reply:

Luke list a heavy weight for use in a storm as their Mk 1 design is a bad copy that is sort of OK in mud but poor in sand, if you use such a heavy anchor it will provide good holding, but they are targeting boaters looking for a single anchor who might not have a second good rode, or even enough chain. Some of those boaters don't even use chain, and in the case of commercial fishermen that might result in the use of Polypropelene as that does stay off the bottom so tends not to chafe, something of a gamble if the anchor hits a wreck or coral head. I always used 10m of chain when using a fishermans and Poly rode.

17lbs is perfectly good for my boat, as it probably will exert half the force of a 27ft offshore capable yacht. Some kevlar or carbon race yachts are the same, although the windage of my boat is less than a sail boat if the mast is folded down onto the bow sprit. Like the anchors the A frame mast is in the back garden at present.

J.M.Reineck & Sons only make anchors for Herreshoff yachts, so they only do a 7.5lb and 17lb anchor. They can make larger ones but one blog says they might need to subcontract to their approved large anchor company:
Anchors – kingston-anchors (kingstonanchors.com)

I might be just about able to buy a new 17lb Herreshoff, BUT there is no way I could afford a special order job through Kingston, they are probably no 1 for plow anchors with the very best type of stainless available in the USA. If I win the Lotto I might buy a Kingston plow to mount alongside the Herreshoff, as they do make large and small anchors.

 

[Poignard]

Yep, Don Street really did know his ar5se from his elbow about anchors, although I doubt if he could afford a new bronze genuine fully certficated Herreshoff, that is slightly better in sand than the one Don would have used. Do you know if he used a genuine steel CQR or not ??

[...]

.

I'm afraid I can remember little of the conversation I had with Don Street, or how we came to be talking about anchors.

I had no reason to be dissatisfied with the (genuine) CQR I had then, and still have, so I would not have been seeking advice on its possible replacement. It probably just came up in the course of what I remember as a wide-ranging and enjoyable conversation about all things to do with sailing.


I must say I am surprised that my only anchor thread has been revived after 12 years.

If I have learnt anything about anchoring since then, it is not to start anchor threads!

 

[boomerangben]

Yep, Don Street really did know his ar5se from his elbow about anchors, although I doubt if he could afford a new bronze genuine fully certficated Herreshoff, that is slightly better in sand than the one Don would have used. Do you know if he used a genuine steel CQR or not ??

Boomerangben:

I'm talking to parts suppliers and second hand supply companies every day, BUT, my anchors are in the back garden until I finish building my offshore self righting lifeboat with a folding A frame mast, (Square sail or trysail and jib or genoa), for a potential second singlehanded circumnavigation. In the unlikely event I survive the build and test program in the Portland race, I might well set sail with 1000 nm of reserve fuel for a new keel cooled Beta 30 that is being installed later this week. This time I will go for a faster route, probably via the Cannery Islands, Magellans short cut or the Horn, but then North West to Fiji, (Very good stores, engineering and R&R), then Darwin and Richards Bay South Africa, Fortelaza in NE Brazil, Bermuda and back to Blighty. Very vague plan, as I failed to sop at Bora Bora last time, and might wish to go down South again to New Zealand for the Typhoon season. I'm not too concerned about sailing a good boat during typhon season unless it's across an area where you could get cornered like Northern Australia. I like going slowly across any warm fishy areas, as you get some real interesting visitors, including a teenage grey whale that stayed near my old steel yacht for nearly the entire weeks sail from the Tahiti to Tonga, as I was doing almost the same spped as a small whale, around 4 to 5kts max. That whale was heading for a known feeding and breeding ground just West of Tonga, and stayed with me until the entrance marker for Vavau.

Practical_Sailor_Jan_01.pdf (plaisance-pratique.com)

One important point is that results table is based on anchor deck area, (Size), as far as I can tell, as that is the limiting factor for many boats, it's not based on a daft weight comparison, which is of no real interest if you have a windlass or tough arms. It also avoids encouraging ultra light bendable or breakable anchors. In reality it would be good to see a second weight vs performance table for the manual only small boat users.

vyc_cox reply:

Luke list a heavy weight for use in a storm as their Mk 1 design is a bad copy that is sort of OK in mud but poor in sand, if you use such a heavy anchor it will provide good holding, but they are targeting boaters looking for a single anchor who might not have a second good rode, or even enough chain. Some of those boaters don't even use chain, and in the case of commercial fishermen that might result in the use of Polypropelene as that does stay off the bottom so tends not to chafe, something of a gamble if the anchor hits a wreck or coral head. I always used 10m of chain when using a fishermans and Poly rode.

17lbs is perfectly good for my boat, as it probably will exert half the force of a 27ft offshore capable yacht. Some kevlar or carbon race yachts are the same, although the windage of my boat is less than a sail boat if the mast is folded down onto the bow sprit. Like the anchors the A frame mast is in the back garden at present.

J.M.Reineck & Sons only make anchors for Herreshoff yachts, so they only do a 7.5lb and 17lb anchor. They can make larger ones but one blog says they might need to subcontract to their approved large anchor company:
Anchors – kingston-anchors (kingstonanchors.com)

I might be just about able to buy a new 17lb Herreshoff, BUT there is no way I could afford a special order job through Kingston, they are probably no 1 for plow anchors with the very best type of stainless available in the USA. If I win the Lotto I might buy a Kingston plow to mount alongside the Herreshoff, as they do make large and small anchors.

Thank you for the link.

If I was in you shoes and had 1500 of our fine Sterling coins to spend on an anchor, I would buying 3 of the other better performing anchors, one of which would be a Knox. I would also spend some of the change on getting good weather forecasts, good information about potential anchorages en route and a fish finder to assess bottom conditions.

I could not sleep easy spending over 3 times the money on an anchor that provides less than a 1/3 the holding. (Herreshoff vs Spade).

 

[TNLI]

Thank you for the link.

If I was in you shoes and had 1500 of our fine Sterling coins to spend on an anchor, I would buying 3 of the other better performing anchors, one of which would be a Knox. I would also spend some of the change on getting good weather forecasts, good information about potential anchorages en route and a fish finder to assess bottom conditions.

I could not sleep easy spending over 3 times the money on an anchor that provides less than a 1/3 the holding. (Herreshoff vs Spade).

Ah, you need to remember that the Herreshof will work with a 2 to 1 rope rode in any type of bottom, it is highly unlkely that it could be bent or broken, and is a real class act in rocks, heavy weed and cobblestones.

No other modern anchor is capable of providing or functioning so well with a short scope in any type of sea bed. Fishermans anchors and the admiralty pattern version in particular, all work well with a short scope, BUT if the sea bed is not rocks, heavy weed or cobblestones they are worse than useless unless very heavy.

The Herreshoff was no 1 for unbendable unbreakable main or storm anchors until WW2, although early Danforths became popular for more normal mud and sand anchors. The late model 3 piece bronze version is slightly different in design to the cheaper copies and slightly better in sand or mud.

Sensible safe boaters use 2 mains in a storm, even though the secodary main might not be set. Some use just a single main but are ready to deploy their secondary main almost instantly.

It's the combination of a good main with a Herreshof that is the soltion to anchoring in a sea bed marked as mixed, or one with a debris warning. I used to use a genuine steel CQR with a Danforth secondary in bad conditions, BUT all of the Danforths and the alloy ones in particular can be bent and those 2 anchors are no good in rocks or heavy weed, so not the best solution. Even moderate weeds can foul a Danforth or a Spade until they don't reset

The new pair will be a genuine bronze Herreshoff in a real storm only and a genuine CQR, (In deck space vs holding pwer it was no 1 for holding, and when compared in weight terms, was better than a Delta, which is nearly as tough. If it's not possible to use a 5 to 1 chain rode for the CQR, I will use a steel Danforth, or even a Spade. When not in use the bronze herreshoff will be disassembled and placed in a locked cabinet that has tough fire glass and a display light, so any visitors or crew can admire the lovely bronze shine and wonderfull design.

 

[Minerva]

When not in use the bronze herreshoff will be disassembled and placed in a locked cabinet that has tough fire glass and a display light, so any visitors or crew can admire the lovely bronze shine and wonderfull design.

That does sound like the best use of the aesthetically pleasing piece of solid bronze.

 

[NormanS]

I never anchor in rocks, heavy weed, or cobblestones, because I use common sense and a fishfinder. Saves a lot of bother.

 

[TNLI]

.

I'm afraid I can remember little of the conversation I had with Don Street, or how we came to be talking about anchors.

I had no reason to be dissatisfied with the (genuine) CQR I had then, and still have, so I would not have been seeking advice on its possible replacement. It probably just came up in the course of what I remember as a wide-ranging and enjoyable conversation about all things to do with sailing.


I must say I am surprised that my only anchor thread has been revived after 12 years.

If I have learnt anything about anchoring since then, it is not to start anchor threads!

Yes very true, but modern advertising and unrealistic tests have brain washed a new generation of boaters into buying anchors that are a disaster when dragged into clumps of weed, deployed in rocks due to lack of room in an anchorage, too great a depth for a sensible scope, or heavy weed where they never reach the bottom.

I will never replace my genuine steel CQR, unless it gets too badly worn. I tend to use the Danforth as often as a genuine CQR, unless conditions are bad, and the Herreshoff is going to be for a secondary storm main, or as main if I'm in deep water.

 

[TNLI]

I never anchor in rocks, heavy weed, or cobblestones, because I use common sense and a fishfinder. Saves a lot of bother.

Famous last words, if you can't get into a main mud or sand only anchorage for some reason, or it turns out to be overcrowded, like many anchorages in the Carib. area, or even some in the EU or Med during the summer. If you like exploring, you will have no choice but to use some anchorages that are problematic in holding terms due to weeds or areas of cobblestones in particular, or are deep water until the rocks or cliffs.

 

[boomerangben]

Ah, you need to remember that the Herreshof will work with a 2 to 1 rope rode in any type of bottom, it is highly unlkely that it could be bent or broken, and is a real class act in rocks, heavy weed and cobblestones.

No other modern anchor is capable of providing or functioning so well with a short scope in any type of sea bed. Fishermans anchors and the admiralty pattern version in particular, all work well with a short scope, BUT if the sea bed is not rocks, heavy weed or cobblestones they are worse than useless unless very heavy.

The Herreshoff was no 1 for unbendable unbreakable main or storm anchors until WW2, although early Danforths became popular for more normal mud and sand anchors. The late model 3 piece bronze version is slightly different in design to the cheaper copies and slightly better in sand or mud.

Sensible safe boaters use 2 mains in a storm, even though the secodary main might not be set. Some use just a single main but are ready to deploy their secondary main almost instantly.

It's the combination of a good main with a Herreshof that is the soltion to anchoring in a sea bed marked as mixed, or one with a debris warning. I used to use a genuine steel CQR with a Danforth secondary in bad conditions, BUT all of the Danforths and the alloy ones in particular can be bent and those 2 anchors are no good in rocks or heavy weed, so not the best solution. Even moderate weeds can foul a Danforth or a Spade until they don't reset

The new pair will be a genuine bronze Herreshoff in a real storm only and a genuine CQR, (In deck space vs holding pwer it was no 1 for holding, and when compared in weight terms, was better than a Delta, which is nearly as tough. If it's not possible to use a 5 to 1 chain rode for the CQR, I will use a steel Danforth, or even a Spade. When not in use the bronze herreshoff will be disassembled and placed in a locked cabinet that has tough fire glass and a display light, so any visitors or crew can admire the lovely bronze shine and wonderfull design.

So what is the figure for the hereshoffs holding power in rocks weed or cobblestones? Because if it is in sand it isn’t a capable storm anchor. If you are in deep water close to obstructions in a storm you are in the wrong place. Additional warp is cheap

 

[TNLI]

So what is the figure for the hereshoffs holding power in rocks weed or cobblestones? Because if it is in sand it isn’t a capable storm anchor. If you are in deep water close to obstructions in a storm you are in the wrong place. Additional warp is cheap

The only figures are for a Mk 1 and the Mk 2 would produce similar figures for rocks, weed and cobblestone. You will find that when anchoring in a busy anchorage you do not always have a choice of where you anchor, or the sea bed is marked as mixed. In some countries the charts are based on incomplete surveys as regards new coral heads, weed beds and debris in particular. Additional warp is not going to help a modern anchor hold in heavy weed or rocks, at best you might get lucky and get the anchor jammed betwween 2 rocks, but if it's not a real tough anchor, it will gent bent as a result. That's why commercial anchors are all thicker in terms of shank and flukes.

No anchor is perfect, and the Herreshoff is not too good in sand, but none of the modern anchors can function in any type of sea bed without getting bent in the case of rocks, or simply failing to reach the bottom in the case of weeds. The Bruce is closer than most and is OK, but not good in rocks, but hopeless in even light weeds. It can't hold with a 2 to 1 rope rode but might start to hold with 3 to 1 of rope. In many cases of sudden local winds or squall line related incidents there is no time to join the Panama canal lines together or pull some monster heavy storm anchor like a ships anchor out of the bilges, so you will be stuck with using the 2 anchors on the bow and their associated rodes.

Don't forget that most sailors who really know how using just one anchor in bad conditions can suddenly turn out to be a bad idea, often due to a patch of weeds, plastic bags, clumps of coral, tin cans and other types of debris not marked on any chart, will be using 2 anchors, and it's the combination of a Herreshoff with a Danforth, Spade or genuine CQR that is the real class act in ultimate holding power terms.

Many countries including the UK have anchorages that are open to a greater or lesser extent, or have too much fetch to be safe in strong winds. You can easily be forced to leave in a hurry when a low pressure or tropical disturbance passes by on the wrong side to that in the forecast. You then have to get into the new lee, and anchor up in what might well be a poor holding area in a much greater depth than normal. If you are going to get involved in more serious cruising you do need a selection of anchors, including a spare and a few small ones for the dinghy.

 

[Bajansailor]

You could ask the RNLI nicely if they have any of their Arun class lifeboat anchors knocking around still - they carried 2 x 150 lb 3 part fisherman anchors on their foredecks.
If they do, they might be agreeable to selling one - and I am sure they would be happy to get rid of it for a lot less than 1500 pounds.
And this would be the ultimate storm anchor - you certainly would not drag that in a hurry.
Getting it back on board afterwards might be a tad awkward though.
Alternatively, just buy a 'New Gen' anchor.

I was working at the RNLI 30 years ago and one job I had was to help Stuart Welford (the RNLI research and development manager) to analyse all the data that they had collected on some exhaustive anchor trials they had carried out up in Scotland - they were especially keen on doing tests in kelp.
There were no 'new gen' anchors available, and the best 'all round' anchor (as a result of these trials) turned out to be - a Delta!
I seem to remember that the early Severns and Trents were fitted with Fisherman and Delta anchors (that is progress, moving from two Fishermen to one) - but I think that the lifeboats now have Spades or some other new gen anchor?

 

[john_morris_uk]

TNLI; ….but none of the modern anchors can function in any type of sea bed without getting bent in the case of rocks, or simply failing to reach the bottom in the case of weeds.

This is complete drivel. I appreciate that you are fixated with anchor shanks getting bent but you are boldly making statements without a shred of evidence. You’ve jumped from new generation anchors have weak shanks (highly debatable) to ‘they all bend in rocks’. No they don’t because I use one. And the Spade anchor (amongst others) is pretty good in weed! I know because as I say above, it’s my go to anchor.

And don’t suggest I lack anchoring experience in demanding conditions. For example I’ve secured a boat through a hurricane. (albeit only a Cat 2). Bows secured in the mangrove, two anchors out the back end…. etc etc.

 

[TNLI]

You could ask the RNLI nicely if they have any of their Arun class lifeboat anchors knocking around still - they carried 2 x 150 lb 3 part fisherman anchors on their foredecks.
If they do, they might be agreeable to selling one - and I am sure they would be happy to get rid of it for a lot less than 1500 pounds.
And this would be the ultimate storm anchor - you certainly would not drag that in a hurry.
Getting it back on board afterwards might be a tad awkward though.
Alternatively, just buy a 'New Gen' anchor.

I was working at the RNLI 30 years ago and one job I had was to help Stuart Welford (the RNLI research and development manager) to analyse all the data that they had collected on some exhaustive anchor trials they had carried out up in Scotland - they were especially keen on doing tests in kelp.
There were no 'new gen' anchors available, and the best 'all round' anchor (as a result of these trials) turned out to be - a Delta!
I seem to remember that the early Severns and Trents were fitted with Fisherman and Delta anchors (that is progress, moving from two Fishermen to one) - but I think that the lifeboats now have Spades or some other new gen anchor?

I don't use dedicated storm anchors, as I have no room for them and they weigh too much. The RNLI Admiralty anchors are for rocks and weeds with a short scope only. What is required for private boats or my own boat is a lighter easy to store general purpose anchor that can be used in rocks or weeds with a short scope, (So good for deep water), BUT will also work in mud and sand, although with a less than ideal performance in sand. Interesting the Delta was good in kelp, and in general terms a heavy plow will work to some extent in weeds. Why was the RNLI so intrested in Kelp beds in holding terms ??

Many private boaters who think that a specialist storm anchor like the one Luke advertise, or a oversize unbreakable CQR, Delta or Bruce, (It must not bend or break), and a matching heavy chain and rope rode down in the bilges or the bottom of a locker, is one way of accepting the limitations of weak shank or breakable kit built anchors. Alas in the real world of nasty weather related surprises, those anchors are often not in use when the boat is wrecked. The main reason for the dragging and failure to reset is weed or debris, like plastic bags and fishing gear including crab pots etc. Just one tin can, can ruin your whole day! Some anchorages have a surprising number of old sunken rowing or small boats in them.

The RNLI are using the Spade on some boats, but they should have asked the manfacturer to remove the yellow paint bedire it started to flake off. Not sure if it's a speciail order version, as the shanks looks wider than normal.
Oddly enough your comment about the Delta has me thinking that if you don't need a deep water short scope anchor, a good storm set up with 2 mains, might be a Delta or genuine CQR, and a Bruce or Lewmar Claw. The Bruce will do ok in rocks, but is real bad in weeds.
Theft is quite an issue in some countries, so I'm glad the genuine bronze Herreshoff is a 3 piece that can be stored below.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I don't use dedicated storm anchors, as I have no room for them and they weigh too much. The RNLI Admiralty anchors are for rocks and weeds with a short scope only. What is required for private boats or my own boat is a lighter easy to store general purpose anchor that can be used in rocks or weeds with a short scope, (So good for deep water), BUT will also work in mud and sand, although with a less than ideal performance in sand. Interesting the Delta was good in kelp, and in general terms a heavy plow will work to some extent in weeds. Why was the RNLI so intrested in Kelp beds in holding terms ??

Many private boaters who think that a specialist storm anchor like the one Luke advertise, or a oversize unbreakable CQR, Delta or Bruce, (It must not bend or break), and a matching heavy chain and rope rode down in the bilges or the bottom of a locker, is one way of accepting the limitations of weak shank or breakable kit built anchors. Alas in the real world of nasty weather related surprises, those anchors are often not in use when the boat is wrecked. The main reason for the dragging and failure to reset is weed or debris, like plastic bags and fishing gear including crab pots etc. Just one tin can, can ruin your whole day! Some anchorages have a surprising number of old sunken rowing or small boats in them.

The RNLI are using the Spade on some boats, but they should have asked the manfacturer to remove the yellow paint bedire it started to flake off. Not sure if it's a speciail order version, as the shanks looks wider than normal.
Oddly enough your comment about the Delta has me thinking that if you don't need a deep water short scope anchor, a good storm set up with 2 mains, might be a Delta or genuine CQR, and a Bruce or Lewmar Claw. The Bruce will do ok in rocks, but is real bad in weeds.
Theft is quite an issue in some countries, so I'm glad the genuine bronze Herreshoff is a 3 piece that can be stored below.

“or a oversize unbreakable CQR, Delta or Bruce, (It must not bend or break),”

More drivel. All anchors break if abused enough.

Also your harping on about short scope anchoring reveals a lack of knowledge regarding scope in deeper waters. The 5x or 7x etc formula only works in shallow water. It’s an approximation then.. Please stop cluttering up the forum with your fixations and disinformation.

 

[Neeves]

“or a oversize unbreakable CQR, Delta or Bruce, (It must not bend or break),”

More drivel. All anchors break if abused enough.

Also your harping on about short scope anchoring reveals a lack of knowledge regarding scope in deeper waters. The 5x or 7x etc formula only works in shallow water. It’s an approximation then.. Please stop cluttering up the forum with your fixations and disinformation.

I'm joining the corp of people demanding that posts can be too long.

Your final sentence is far too long:

"Please stop cluttering up the forum"

would have been more than adequate.

What is needed is some good Moderation. . Where are good Moderators when you need them?

Jonathan