The great chandlery swindle

[Woodpile]

Just received the latest Force 4 catalogue in the post and happened to spot a useful-looking aluminium folding ladder for £99.99. In B&Q, you can get something that looks remarkably similar for just £49.97. I only mention it because I bought the B&Q version last year. It's rugged, 2.5kgs lighter, seemingly good quality and has suited me just as well as I hoped.

No surprise to find such extravagant pricing at the chandlery, of course, but it did get me thinking. Isn't it time that one of the so-called 'consumer' sailing magazines we all support so avidly took a bit more interest in these sorts of issues? Should we not take our editors to task, and call on them to exert some editorial pressure in our favour for a change?

How about a series of articles comparing chandlery goods against hardware store/other alternatives, for instance? I guess the 'practical' PBO readership would be a great resource for ideas about alternatives. What does everyone else think?

B&Q item...
http://www.diy.com/bq/product/product.jhtml?PRODID=168711&CATID=172548

Force 4 item...
http://www.force4.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh0...ww.force4.co.uk/acatalog/index.html&WD=ladder purpose multi&PREVQUERY=PR=-1&TB=A&SHOP=&SS=multi-purpose+ladder&PN=Online_Catalogue_Miscellaneous_Maintenance_53.html#a490001#a490001

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[maxxi]

And so say all of us.

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[Ohdrat]

Here Here.. PBO we want <font color=red>action</font color=red>

 

[Guest]

DIY - Caravan shops - Chandlers

I have long advocated the old Caravan dealer for many items .....

Wall lights 12V with nice shades etc. in brass finish - fiver each

Hatch stays - in Caravan shop are window stays !!! - fiver often or some a little more if you want heavy duty !

Cookers / Place settings / cutlery etc. etc.

Water supply items from taps, pumps, pipes, etc. etc.

Chandlers - I only go there for purely marine stuff .... sorry I know that traders only survive by people using them - but if the same article with a different label on costs a lot less - Bye Bye !

BUT there are some items that should be made clear are definite no-no's ....... B&Q shackles etc. for marine use - ok for the gate / dog leash etc. but little use on a boat.

Consider the engines and parts ....... bearings can be bought from a supplier using the GENERIC code at a fraction of the NAME brand price - but it is the same article. Filters are often found for another engine and cheaper ..... ( an old trick with Volvo cars ..... Volvo said the whole air filter and plastic box was to be replaced ..... said it was not 'openeable' - well the Hillman Hunter had the same filter and similar box ...... you could buy the filter from Hillman and open the Volvo case and change like for like .........) There are a million and 1 other examples - it really needs a database to be made up of all the tricks / cheaper but good substitutes etc.

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<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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[Guest]

BUT .... can PBO / YBW help ?

Is it 'politically' correct for them to get involved ?

We all apreciate saving money and not being ripped off - but isn't it difficult for a mag that derives a part of its revenue from Chandlers adverts ?

If this post runs to thousands with peoples tips ...... that will go a long way to 'tripping-up' the chandler trade !!!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[Dave_Knowles]

I think you must though compare like for like. Earlier this year I went to Machine Mart to look at the folding ladders and they all looked similar but ranged in price from £70 to over £150 and it was not until you looked at them carefully you could see the build quility and therefore life expectancy was better on the more expensive ones. I decided though as it was something that I would use only occasionally to buy the cheaper one.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[Woodpile]

Re: BUT .... can PBO / YBW help ?

I don't think it would affect our favourite magazines' ad revenues if chandlery margins were to come under pressure. (Some hope!) Shouldn't a more competitive market encourage more advertising? (This from someone who scored a D grade in O level economics...)



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[LORDNELSON]

I expect there are lots of us who use a chandlers for purely marine goods and buy from other sectors when there is a real price saving for the same quality. I also think you have to differentiate between real chandlers who often give you a good deal for marine goods and the plastic encapsulated goods dealers calling themselves chandlers who charge large margins and sell mainly to yotties. Unfortunately many sailors are short of time and are apparently very well off and so such expensive chandlers continue to re-invent themselves. Seems to me we should all spread the gospel about good chandlers and alternative sources without necessarily involving magazines who do rely on advertising revenue to keep their prices down.

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[Dave_Knowles]

Re: BUT .... can PBO / YBW help ?

I think that you may find that the Chandlery margins are no bigger than B & Q. It is just that their buying power is not so great especially as chandleries are often only one off. Chandleries normally have to buy from middle men as the producers of marine equipment have not in the past wanted to deal with lots of small accounts. This will change though just give it time.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[bigmart]

Re: BUT .... can PBO / YBW help ?

B&Q are'n't so cheap on some goods. Of course it all depends on whether you've got the time to shop around & do the research. On higher value items it's often worth it. These days of course the web can be a useful resource.

At the end of the day you pays your money & you takes your choice.

Martin

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[Woodpile]

Lord Nelson - In my opinion, allowing magazines off the hook on this issue is a major cop-out. They have had an easy life for too long - recycling industry press releases about new product with scarcely any thought given to value for money or to informing readers about viable alternatives. How many 'reviews' have you read where a price isn't even mentioned? (Particularly for new electronic products.)

The truth is that most product news/review items in all the mags are dropped straight onto the page with scarcely a second thought. If you managed to get on the industry PR mailing list I bet the real position would become embarrassingly clear.

I don't know about anyone else, but I want to read sailing magazines with valuable editorial content. While they do a good job in many respects, as far as 'product/marketplace analysis' goes, the mags are failing miserably. We should let it be known that we expect better.

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[PGD]

Re: BUT .... can PBO / YBW help ?

This is very true, why would any magazine knock it's customers for the massive ad revenues they generate.

I dropped a press release on the site below, to every IPC mag editor, not one response and no coverage, they won't do anything at all.

It comes down to the original message, vote with your feet, and then tell me about it.

Got several letters penned to certain establishments on behalf of the baoting public, mainly asking for there opinion than to throw mud.

Let's see what happens.



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mssa.org.uk>http://www.mssa.org.uk</A> Marine Service Standards Assistance

 

[Jaguar]

I think you should take a look at outdoor persuit shops if you think chandlers are expensive. The basic Garmin etrex costs £120 in a Chandler - £150 in an outdoor persuitys shop. If all thinks are equal, me thinks that the chandler has the lower margin.


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[dickh]

Re: BUT .... can PBO / YBW help ?

Bigmart, I agree you have to be careful with some B&Q stuff. I spotted some International Yacht Varnish in B&Q last year and I pounced on it as it was considerable cheaper, even had a nice yacht on the can, then I started to read the small print "ONLY SUITABLE FOR INTERIOR USE" ..... and I promptly replaced it - but I wonder how many other people were conned by the nice can & name and bought it for exterior work, wether boaty or not.

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Mirelle]

The humble galvanised shackle

Perhaps everyone else on this board uses stainless or bronze shackles, but the galvanised shackle is about as mundane a bit of kit as one might buy from a chandler.

You would be well advised NOT to do so!

I have not set foot in a yot chandlers which sells proper, honest to goodness, British Standard BS 3032 galvanised shackles. They all sell the sort of cheap rubbish that agricultural merchants sell to farmers (at a third of the price) and which is weak, badly galvanised and, frankly, unfit for serious use in rigging.

Happily, I have found a company which does sell proper shackes, along with a lot of other stuff, here:

http://www.eyecochain.com/mooring_default.htm

Furthermore, they sell BS3032 galvanised shackles at a significantly lower price than any of the chandlers in the area, definitelty including the Marina down the lane, charge for agricultural type shackles.

OK so how to tell the difference - a BS 3032 shackle says so on it, has a pin larger than the body of the shackle, and, if galvanised, is properly galvanised.

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[mickshep]

Re: The humble galvanised shackle

Large stainless steel bottle screws from chandlers on South coast £42 each, Same bought in Sheffield/Rotherham from lifting gear manufacturer £12 each, identical enough to realisticaly suggest, manufactured by same people. 100m roll 6mm stainless rigging wire, £130. Nuff said. Cheers, Mick.

<hr width=100% size=1>"Naaa mate, she's made of tin"

 

[Guest]

having friends who have run the 're-invented' chandlers etc. I can say that overall the margins are not as high as you think ...... OK - we have pointed at a number of items and they are marked up by middlemen before it even hits the chandlers shelves !!!

Believe me I am not a chandler friend - as I like my economy !!! But passing on what was shown to me after a particular friend went bankrupt !! He wnet not because of lack of sales- but because the margin disappeared into middlemens pockets !! and competition from on-line stuff !!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
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[PBrooks]

To defend the chandlers a bit and retailers in general. I doubt any of them are making excessive profits, although they may seem expensive on certain products. And I can't see that you're being at all realistic expecting the yachting press to jump in and be the consumer's champion. It is already a very competitive market and nobody is stopping you from going to B&Q or Screwfix or any number of other suppliers if you want to. I'm pretty sure that in this industry there is no monopoly at work (some spares operations, such as engines, may be an exception) so it's up to you to shop around or not as your circumstances dictate.

The trouble with consumer surveys, BBC's Watchdog being the worst offender, is that they parachute in, measure one attribute (price, say) and then take everybody to task without understanding any of the other elements that go to make up a retail "offer".

I accept that there is a general concern that once "marine" has been stamped on the packaging, the price goes up and it would be worth establishing whether this is the case. Two points here. For major manufacturers such as Volvo, this may (allegedly) be true as they have a spares monopoly. For others, it's probably not significant, by the time you've taken any differences in materials into account or the costs of running a chandlery versus a caravan spares retailer (for example)


Best regards
Paul

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[Dave_Knowles]

Nigel,

You are quite right with what you say but it will change although it will take time.

<hr width=100% size=1>Take care.

Dave

Dave Knowles
Southampton - UK

http://www.MyCleopatra.co.uk

 

[Woodpile]

Hi Paul

You say: 'To defend the chandlers a bit and retailers in general. I doubt any of them are making excessive profits, although they may seem expensive on certain products. And I can't see that you're being at all realistic expecting the yachting press to jump in and be the consumer's champion. '

I say: 'Does it matter whether they are making excessive profits or not? Are you suggesting we should all subsidise an unsustainable industry as the price of being yachtsmen and women? I guess you are not, and I agree. There should be freedom of choice, and people can take their money where they like. But I believe most of us simply demand value as a core value, and too often we just don't get it. Why? Because often we are ill-informed, unlucky, or don't know where else to turn - and therefore end up sustaining the unsustainable through lack of information or accident. Is it unrealistic to expect 'our' magazines to take an interest on our behalf ?

I agree with you entirely about BBC's Watchdog. It is an ill-researched, often idiotic programme, and the Which? reports are often just as hopeless. But I want to believe it is possible to research and write balanced, insightful editorial about consumer-related issues, and readers in the yachting sector are currently missing out. I happen to believe the magazines are doing readers a huge disservice by not focusing attention on this area.

But as for ignoring the 'retail offer', we may have to differ. While I've had some good experiences in chandleries, generally speaking the unique offer of others - large and small - is the chance to be ill-served by a Musto-clad, would-be boat bum who'd clearly rather be somewhere else. (OK, I'm exaggerating for dramatic effect!)

Cheers
Chris

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