The Future of Old Boats with Big Engines?

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dpb

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This advert I found interesting for two reasons.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/sea-ray-2...7417361?pt=UK_Power_Boats&hash=item4ae446ae91

First because I used to have a boat like this up till 2006 and it remains one of the favourite that I have had. Mine had a 5.7l V8 though and being raw water cooled was rotting from the inside and I eventually put the money I was spending on repairs each year to a loan on a brand new boat.
Secondly, because I have been pondering the fate of old, big engined boats, like the Sea Ray, and like my current Portofino, where the cost of repairs and maintenance, and eventual replacement is disproportionate to the boats value. To the extent that if you can afford the repairs and eventual replacement, you can probably afford a newer dearer boat in the first place.
Another issue is that as the boats get older, little things need fiddling with more often, but the access arrangement in many, maybe most boats is such that access to carry out even simple jobs, like removing a starter motor are made difficult, or painfull or both, as is the case on the Portofino.
So take my Portofino.
When the time comes, and I suppose it is when, where a repair or replacement is needed that is financially unviable, what do I do? Sunseeker have had a boat like mine, with new engines installed priced to reflect the value of those engines, for sale for at least the last four years. I think it is still for sale.
So would I do as the Sea Ray in the advert, convert to low power (say 50hp) single diesel, that could be done relatively cheaply, and would result in a cheap to run and maintain, and easy to work on boat that would be attractive to buyers in that budget? The Sea Ray looks like a tidy job though I do wonder about the exposed prop in the river environment.
Another idea that came to me is that my DIY jobs would be so much easier if there was only one of the existing engines sat in the middle, and such jobs would become enjoyable rather than a bind as there would be room for a little seat each side of the motor! I think doing such a conversion would be relatively easy.
Also playing with a couple of online power / size / speed programmes, even with one 200hp engine my Portofino would probably, if re propped, still get a top speed of 25k, well we don’t push her hard these days so cruise between 20 and 25 anyway at the moment. Ok, the single engine would work harder, but I’d have a good source of spare parts from the removed engine....unless it was sold to finance the project.
As you can see I do not reach a conclusion, nor have any particular plans at the moment, but would be interested in seeing other’s views on this.
 
I think you're absolutely right in believing that many of these magnificent sea-going craft will (and in many cases this has been happening for some time) spend their latter years as river boats before reaching their penultimate stage as "projects".

Running costs are high enough for most people who can afford them not to want to look at anything more than a few years old unless the sticker reflects this.
 
I always think there is a solution to what you want to do, especially if you don't have a bottomless wallet like most of us. I guess it really comes down to how much you can do yourself. Whilst I like being able to help out engineers and keep them running, there is a lot you can do yourself if you have the time, space and patience.

I bought a very similar boat, with the 5.0l v8 in which was a complete nightmare, but was lucky enough to have the time ect to convert it to a diesel. to be fair it was a pretty easy thing to do as most of the bits (like transom mounts) lined up. I made a write up of it here will refresh the images soon.

It really depends on what level you want to get involved with the actual refit, as I only had to outsource the drive coupling which was all custom made, but even that was hardly bank crippling.
 
The only problem with small replacement engines is that nobody but nobody wants to cruise at displacement speed.
With the exception of Nordhaven and Kady Kogen second hand displ. boats can't even be given away at their scrap value.
we live in a fast moving world and people rightly want the option of higher planing speed, even if they spend most of their time pottering along at 7 or 8kts to save fuel.

In other words you would probably get less for a converted small engine planing boat than leaving the original engines in place. Weirdly modern second hand cars face the same dilemma, what do you do with a 10 year old luxury car with ECU black box that's failed; the repair is more than the cars worth! As J.Clarkson said on top gear a new BMW top of the range car will lose 40% of its value after 18 months.

Maybe old boats are throw away items like everything else in our modern society.:ambivalence:
 
Or polish them up and give them a lick of paint.....

I understand the winning sealed envelope bid for this one was £67,000

b2ap3_thumbnail_IMG_20150111_105430.jpg
 
There are a few sportcruisers that have been re-engined like this on the Thames, there is even a Princess 35 Flybridge with a single 50hp.
However they become unsellable mongrels, it will take a strange buyer mindset to buy a boat like that Searay that looks like it does 40knts but actually just put-puts along at 5knts.
Boats are about selling dreams and even if folks never realise them they like having the potential there.
 
not really a mobo person but did do a lot of work on an raf derby class 1942 triple screw some years ago . I often wonder why twin engine mobos of a certain size dont have a mid engine 40/50hp for river working ,with the cost of them new could fit a little on in the middle without batting an eylid on cost
 
not really a mobo person but did do a lot of work on an raf derby class 1942 triple screw some years ago . I often wonder why twin engine mobos of a certain size dont have a mid engine 40/50hp for river working ,with the cost of them new could fit a little on in the middle without batting an eylid on cost

Someone tried this but it didn't really work, on rivers you do a lot of close manouvering in locks and the single small engine and prop didn't work with the rudders behind the twin screws. So you fire up the two big engines for 2 mins for handling every 30-40 mins then turn them off again before they have wamed up, not really a good idea.
 
Someone tried this but it didn't really work, on rivers you do a lot of close manouvering in locks and the single small engine and prop didn't work with the rudders behind the twin screws. So you fire up the two big engines for 2 mins for handling every 30-40 mins then turn them off again before they have wamed up, not really a good idea.
good bow thruster?stern thruster
 
So you fire up the two big engines for 2 mins for handling every 30-40 mins then turn them off again before they have wamed up, not really a good idea.
But if the boat is one step away from scrap, it probably doesn't really matter, does it ?
 
If you know any being given away at scrap value, I have a mate who wants to buy something cheap to live on and move out of his parents' garage.

Pete

What was the name of the woman who bought an old wooden trawler in the north of England and had the problem getting the crane to lift it?
maybe it's for sale again? :D
 
Can you even sell an old boat with two petrol V8s on legs?

Not easily. Best bet for the owner of a tired old petrol boat that's sucking the bank account dry is to remove engines and drives and sell on ebay - there's always a queue of eager buyers working on 'projects' who will buy them, ditto much of the other electrical equipment. Strip out the other fixtures take to tip. Next, demonstrate that a chainsaw makes mincemeat of GRP, by chopping the hull into 1m square sections, take to tip for landfill.
 
I saw in the Bembridge newsletter that they are having a "sale" of the abandoned boat in the harbour.... it does not take very long for an old boat to become more expensive to keep in annual fees, insurance and maintenance that its actually worth.

There are so many old rotton tubs moored along stretches of canals and rivers around the UK with barry bolt-on outboard brackets on the transom with an old 10hp outboard hanging off it, most of these would have previously had inboard power...
 
What was the name of the woman who bought an old wooden trawler in the north of England and had the problem getting the crane to lift it?
maybe it's for sale again? :D

Closer to home than you think...

I was actually in the car with him on the way to Preston to view that one when the owner phoned to say it had just been sold. Not to Ellie, but to someone else who sold it on to her a few months later.

Ellie got it launched in the end and brought it down to Brighton with only a couple of minor incidents. A lot of boat for the money, and I don't think she's planning to part with it any time soon.

Pete
 
Can you even sell an old boat with two petrol V8s on legs?

At the right price my mate would buy it, depending on the condition of the interior. This is exactly his plan, he's identified that once-fast boats with thirsty old petrol lumps are uneconomic for their original purpose and should be available cheap. Engine condition no problem if you're just going to park it in the mud at the side of the river (though obviously shafts are preferable to legs from the point of view of long-term watertightness).

Pete
 
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