The Future of Corporate Sailing

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Let me preface this by saying that there have been times at which I have earnt my wage driving corporate yachts, and I still do quite a bit of that work. But almost all of what I do is in events that are corporate only, not part of other big events. Mainly because I'm normally racing in the big events (RTI, Cowes etc).

As in all recent years the corporate boys were out in force for the RTI this year.
After a few run ins with them I'm now convinced that there needs to be a change in the way corporate sailing works in the large events.

Down the back of the island, with the wind about 18 knots, we came across a 40.7 in the colours of the race sponsors. He was on Port with a Spinnaker up. However his entire crew were sitting in the cockpit and no-one was trimming the kite. He was running by the lee and clearly trying to sail low to avoid having to gybe at the approaching headland.
We were sailing our standard angles, about 165, and slowly closed from his leward side. However when we got close he adamantly refused to go up. And even pushed us down to sailing by the lee. This angered us, as we wanted to dive inshore and gybe twice before the headland. It was clear however that the 40.7 had no intention of gybing, and wasn't prepared to be pushed into a situation where he would have to, and was ignoring the RRS. So we gybed out, and sailed into the tide, losing ground on our major competition. As we watched he also refused to yield to a J80 coming out on starboard.

I understood his situation, but he was effectively limited in his ability to react to racing situations because he did not have the crew to manouver his boat. I've been in that situation in corporate fleets, but in a different way because all of the boats are limited in the same way, and all the skippers make concessions.

So should he have been flying the kite?
Should he have mixed it with the main fleet knowing he couldn't gybe?
Is there a case for keeping corporate sailing separate from the "regular" sailors?
Or should the organisers start insiting that corporate charter boats have a minimum number of competent crew on board?
 
Totally agree. We had very similar situation two years ago - a 40.7 to leeward off Ventnor, pushing us too close in. We gybed on to starboard, whereupon he said 'We can't gybe, the crew doesn't know how.' Surely he shouldn't be that far inshore if he's lacking control. Also this year identical situation with one of the clipper 68's who completely stonewalled us. Not impressive - and none of the crews looked like they were enjoying themselves, possibly because the skipper was stressed and they were outside their comfort zone with the kite up in conditions where, with their experience, they shouldn't be.

Still a difficult one - down to the skipper I guess.
 
I get really annoyed by people chartering boats out to corporate types spoiling the events they come to 'be part of' or worse still spectate. My pet hate is Challenge boats and similar barging around in Cowes week, not racing, getting in the way, taking the wind at marks (I normally race a small boat) and making money out of spoiling an event which is costing us a lot of cash.
Largely for this reason I'm not committing to Cowes week this year.
I think any crew must be competent to gybe the boat. OK in the limits there are going to be times when a marginal crew cannot, but not having basic competence in the crew should not be allowed.
Unfortunately its not worth protesting, so these incidents go unrecorded.
It is unfortunately not always down to the skipper, he will often be a hired oik with expectations placed on him.
 
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It is unfortunately not always down to the skipper, he will often be a hired oik with expectations placed on him.

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I agree, I've been in that situation. "Why can't we put the spinnaker up, they have?"

Very difficult, and you have to be strong to dissapoint paying guests and take the seamanlike option.
 
Or make sure you keep well out of the way of the general racing line - as Hired Skipper you should know where the best line will be - so ensure you don't go there!
 
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Totally agree. We had very similar situation two years ago - a 40.7 to leeward off Ventnor, pushing us too close in. We gybed on to starboard, whereupon he said 'We can't gybe, the crew doesn't know how.'

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.mmm....that's a hell of a way to keep on your desired racing line..... I wonder what would happen if you shouted back, "Sorry, neither does mine!...." /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
I think we should first differentiate between genuine corporate sailing where the crews are keen and most have a fair idea what they should be doing and the incidents here which are clearly corposate entertaining. In the instancxes mentioned above the vessels involved were clearly 'not under control' and should thus be reported to the race authorities for both the rules they infringed and the rule on sportsmanship. I would go further and suggest that there may even be grounds for reporting the vessels to the Coastguard for being NUC and not displaying the appropriate marlks.

Having said that I have nothing actually against either corporate entertainment in boats or corporate sailing, both bring money into the sport, and also introduce ppeople who may not otherwise have made contact with sailing. However the skippers of these boats are boors, poor sportsmen and not the sort of person who should showing of our sport to the well healed corporate types.
 
We had the same problem last year at St Cats with a Sunsail on port gybe against our starboard gybe, in rather stronger winds. It was our only close shave of the day, but was pretty dangerous.
However there are plenty of well-sailed charter boats out there, and probably just as many incompetently-sailed owner's boats. The real problem is with the protest system which makes it totally impracticable for most entrants to lodge a protest.
Now that they have sorted out the Declaration system so well (congrats to the ISC for this), perhaps they can come up with a better way of policing the protests?
BTW, this year we had no close shaves, no angry shouting, and greatly enjoyed ourselves as usual. Super exercise.

"Resolution"
GBR1426R
 
If you cant gybe it, take it down.

What kind of racing is it that makes protesting such an arcane process that it is not worth protesting?

Also, overriding all racing considerations IRPCS takes precedence. All Skippers, especially Commercial should have this basic stuff tattooed on their forehead.

Or encourage the skippers to square up for an unlicensed boxing match round the back of the kitchens after the race as a settlement for infringements.
 
We could have protested, we were definitely fouled.

We didn't because we were already thrashing them, they started 20 minutes earlier in a boat rated about 5% faster.
Plus to protest takes time and effort, and I don't see any way round that.
 
That puts you in a good light, and the other Skipper in an even more poxy one.

He knows he is already down the toilet, and insists on fouling you costing you valuable seconds.

What if you had lost winning the race by 2 seconds? Would you seriously be so magnanimous?


Perhaps there ought to be a racing license that you get endorsed, and banned when you have lost 3 protests? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
The future of corporate sailing is in Scotland on the west coast where you can go out and enjoy a day on the water without being hampered by a lot of other people doing the same as you.

Try www.geronimosailing.com to see whats available on the Clyde with 2 airports within easy reach you can fly up to Scotland for a day or two and enjoy un crowded waters.
 
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The future of corporate sailing is in Scotland on the west coast where you can go out and enjoy a day on the water without being hampered by a lot of other people doing the same as you.

Try www.geronimosailing.com to see whats available on the Clyde with 2 airports within easy reach you can fly up to Scotland for a day or two and enjoy un crowded waters.

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ermm, that is not really what this is about. I just returned on Saturday night from 8 days in the Clyde thank. Very nice.
Even saw Drum out by Rothesay, and a lot of nice corporate boats in Largs pushing up the prices of berthing a bit.

I think this is about keeping their corporate paying customers deliriously happy to the detriment of other water users, or even competitiors in a show race.
 
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Also, overriding all racing considerations IRPCS takes precedence.


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Not in a race it doesn't.
 
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Also, overriding all racing considerations IRPCS takes precedence.


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Not in a race it doesn't.

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Oh yes it does! (cue Pantomime Skipper with Corporate Logowear on)
 
The rules of racing override IRPCS - that's why you sign on - by signing you agree that you will sail under the racing rules.

The racing rules directly contradict IRPCS in several areas, such as over taking.
 
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The rules of racing override IRPCS

[/ QUOTE ] but only as between the participants, as I'm sure you meant.
 
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The rules of racing override IRPCS

[/ QUOTE ] but only as between the participants, as I'm sure you meant.

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Of course. I wouldn't expect non-participants to sign on!
 
I'm sorry, I knew what you meant. It was just that someone had to say it and I thought it might as well be me!

I hope you had a great day on Saturday and raised a lot of money for your excellent cause.
 
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