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Re: Aircraft Carriers

I once gave imfo to certain person, next day he was giving it out again as an expert!!!!!!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>rich :-)) <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.jersey-harbours.com>http://www.jersey-harbours.com</A>
 
Re: Aircraft Carriers

wasn't you. Was Crappy1 - opps, sorry, I meant Happy1

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.stingo.co.uk>http://www.stingo.co.uk</A> - still showing at a computer near you</font color=blue>
 
Re: The Forum (Longish, and well,....)

Me, I upset people because I sometimes give lectures (I also get given sets of engraved thumbscrews at the end of organisational assignments). So I am going to lecture - if you don't want to attend, do the right thing and not listen.

We (sorry I know I am new, but at least myself claim some ground here) are only seeing what is usual in any semi organised group - there are formal rules and rulemakers (Kim, bless his tolerant but soon to need some darning sox) and informal rules and rulemakers. Usually, the most influencial informal rulemakers get their power from being a cohesive group (like minded, been around longer than most, keep together alot). They often resist, or even resent the intrusion of others, especially if those others are different minded, have different behaviours, are from another country, etc. Nothing wrong with that at all, that is how we behave, but if we are in an organisation which does not claim eliteness through some particular closed doctrine, then we must make room for and tolerate the rest being in the vicinity.

When the informal rulemakers are tested, they react because they feel threatened. When the newcomer is reacted against, some newcomers will submit, some will walk away, some will defend and some will provoke further reaction (or there will be a complex mixture of these). The reaction of the newcomer can only be defensive, whether that is aggressive or not is often out of their immediate concious control - and in the context, immediacy, physical security and semi anonymity of a forum, the temptation to flame is not easily resisted.

Tripleace started this thread with what appears to have been a genuine objective of restoring peace. Instead some have turned it into a ground to reestablish the informal rules they see as being threatened. It may be that Tripleace has even inadvertently threatened them by seeking a truce. It may be that my post represents a subconcious attempt by me to to regroup the rest - I hope not, because my concious one is of genuine concern.

Now look back through this thread, some have tried to contribute to peace, some have used it as another vehicle to throw darts at others and some have tried to lighten the situation with some jest. And, yes, I know I have used it as an excuse to lecture, show off even, but actually I also care.

To get personal, because lets be frank, he is one of the main protaganists in this, I find Happy1 refreshing. I don't agree with all (or sometimes even much) of what he says, but he adds another dimension and I cannot find much wrong with that. The threads he starts turn out to be the longest - he has a firm following of those who accept him, but also a firm following of those who seem quite willing to get into his headlights and then complain when they get snapped at.

For the sake of good order, let me say I also find some of the "rulemakers" refreshing too, and respect their right to show some protection of what has become a very good collection of forums because, at least partly, of their fostering and longer term participation.

In the end we all have something to contribute, in the end we all have something to learn, and, most importantly, in the end there is no reason why we have to read the posts of others if we don't want to. In the end if one gets rebutted when one offers advice or a point of view and one perseveres in the face of that rebuttal, then one has to be prepared for an argument and perhaps being snapped at too, and there is really not much point wailing about it.

And in the end I have probably made quite a few more enemies, probably an ass of myself and maybe a friend or two.

John

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Good God people, can you not see that if we allow this state to continue our Forum plaything will destroy itself.

All I really wanted from this thread was a simple reply below mine of those who wanted to try again....

Thats is, the Good the bad and the ugly... EVERYONE.

In this vote for peace, Kim and the Powers can see who is in favour of self control or whether they have to have the 24 hour monitor that the forum appears to almost need.







<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.boating-ads.co.uk> Boating Website</A>
 
Simon

I vote for self control and to start again (even though I have only been here a little while, so just starting myself anyway, I have lurked for much longer).

Thanks for sticking your head up on this.

John

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So you\'ve heard I have a vacancy at present then?

Would be good to have someone in a different time zone on this thing!

Joking aside much of what you say is absolutely correct.

I cannot, and will not, ban a person simply because he isn't liked. Heh, it would be so easy...one button click, I have my life back for a bit and that's it done. But no-one invented bulletin boards for an easy life. In all the time we have done this thing it has been necessary to slap absolute bans on just a handful of people.

If I had worked this forum (since 2001, when it had far fewer posters than now) on the 'ban if not liked' basis it would be a very solitary place indeed. If someone goes off on one then ignore and move on, not reply with a whole bunch of stuff that serves simply to pour gas on the fire.

By the same token, if someone threatens the dynamic of the forum by excessive posting or by trashing other threads continually then it will be tackled, as it has been in the past and will be, if necessary, in the future. If you have concerns PM me...I do always respond, wherever I am, usually within 24 hours or a lot less.

The more everyone targets an individual the more the basis of this thing gets abhorent to me. If the psychologists among you have worked out that my reaction stems from the fact that I was one of the poor sops bullied at school then 10 out of 10 but a few decades on I have stronger reasons than that for believing that our forums should be a place where views are aired strongly but everyone is allowed to live and let live.

Just in case I haven't made it clear, I support no one individual, group or clique but generally enjoy working with you all and want it to remain that way.

Kim



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Re: The Forum (Longish, and well,....)

MainlySteam, My thoughts exactly. Is it really helpfull as I see in one post to make a typo from Happy1 to Crappy1?

I have stayed away a fair bit over the last few months, not because of H1 but because every post of his seemed to be an opportunity for someone to have a go at him and I found it boring.





<hr width=100% size=1>CJ
cjs@stone.uk.com


<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.stone.uk.com>http://www.stone.uk.com</A>
 
I dont think I want this forum to be an exclusive club that admits only those people who conform to some predetermined norm. We already have a moderator who does a very good job of calling a halt before all the toys are chucked out of the pram. So there are one or two dorks (OK, one) who willingly demonstrate their stupidity at regular intervals but, hey, its a free country and I, for one, find it very entertaining

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Re: Aircraft Carriers

So !! Don't provide any further response to that individual. If all his detractors did that then the problem would go away. It would also make life a lot easier for K and people would only get banned for doing really wonderfully bad things.

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Re: Aircraft Carriers

I agree with you.
I read lots on this forum, almost daily. I don't post often. I think that it's great that there is a group of boaters who get together on the water dry land too, but I wonder how welcome outsiders are in the flesh. I think that it's great too, that there is a host of knowlege out there, and H1 has stimulated much of it to the surface. I have learned a lot. (Thanks to all). I wish H1 didn't have so short a fuse- or the need to force a point home so thoroughly, 'cos it makes for a bad atmosphere. He swings between cheerful dry wit and defensive 'aggression' quite easily, and it can be hard to know which we are in line for next. As an inteligent perfectionist, he's needed to build up his theoretical knowlege base rapidly so as not to feel unsafe or insecure in this persuit that we all enjoy.
He often takes a refreshingly innocent view of questions that many of us have taken for granted over years of sound experience, and it is a shame that asking the questions with such innocense can be so provocative ( some of us have wondered in the past if H1 was a plant to ask daft questions and stimulate chat). It's tiring that so much of this forum is dominated by one person though.

I look forward to postings about boating!

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Re: Aircraft Carriers

I agree with you Howard 100% on your well made points here. I have met Happy1 on two occaisons now and enjoyed his company very much. Its just a shame that his postings seem to create so much aggro and it really is time for everyone to take a step back, calm down and get on with enjoying the forum.

Joanne and I have gained such a lot from many forumites and indeed have made some good freinds on and off the water from it so it does sadden me to see such division at present.

Nick

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://arweb.co.uk/argallery/Nick2>http://arweb.co.uk/argallery/Nick2</A>
 
Re: Just a thought

Might work but IPC have a legal thing or two to worry about any form of slagging can get them in hot water as they are the propagator of the message to the world, so unlikely to go unmoderated.

Free speach is fine until you print it and broadcast it /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Peter

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mssa.org.uk>http://www.mssa.org.uk</A> Marine Service Standards Assistance
 
Re: Aircraft Carriers

Entirely agree Whisper. If you think someone is a twat, ignore him or her. You play straight into the troll's hands by responding.

Bill.

<hr width=100% size=1>One of these days I'll have a boat that WORKS
 
Re: So you\'ve heard I have a vacancy at present then?

This is one of the best forums I've found both in terms of ease of use and content and control.

Rather than an absolute ban you could have a middle ground - bit like being dad - sorry son but for that you're grounded for a week - no forum.

Give peeps time to cool off and for others to move on.

I have always had good advice from those gathered here and indeed been able to help a few along the way. As with most things it's all about balance and credability. If you want neither you can only expect what you are given.

This forum is not the play ground from school nor a proving ground and people should not be out to "out do" one another - you come here for advice, opinion and a bit of leg pull if you've met a few folk before or to organise the weekend / an event etc.

May be a clear out would help, but you might want to get rid of the ranking system so that we are all equal - so loose the number of posts / new user tags, and maybe declare a bit more of who you are to stop the hiding behind an unknown identity so as to sling mud - just an idea.

Peter

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mssa.org.uk>http://www.mssa.org.uk</A> Marine Service Standards Assistance
 
Re: Just a thought

Is it me or are people getting a bit short tempered of late as Autumn draws in and Winter won't be far behind?
I have not been around for very long but this forum has given me a lot of very good information and many a laugh. Every forum has it's cliques/antagonists. I have read a few of the car forums over the last couple of years and they are far far worse than this one for rude and nasty behaviour. I do think that moderation is a good thing, especially when the snipes get really personal.
Being relatively new to the forum I have experienced very helpful and friendly people mostly but also a feeling that posting on a particular thread may be intruding on a private conversation at times and tend not to bother, even if I'd really like to contribute.

It's so much easier for people to be confrontational and/or nasty over the internet, hiding behind a keyboard and a monitor so I guess tolerence will be far less than in a face to face situation but I don't think that there's an issue here, there are very few that get stuck into others and hopefully it will stay that way. I'd probably (being a bit of a wuss) be quite peturbed if someone was to have a go at me, even if I am hiding behind the web but I am prepared for it as I don't know/can't see who's read what I've written afterall. Saying that it would be good to put faces to names and will probably turn up for a forumy do in the near future.

Maybe we need a " Completely Off Topic Thread " ????

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Neraida on 10/09/2003 13:18 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
In A Perfect World

We are not.The fact of the matter is we are all from very disparate backgrounds,level of education,financial standing, age and experience.Some are more successfull than others,successful people are not by nature timid people, they are assertive,but it is a very fine line between assertiveness and aggression, aggression is the first form of defence, when a person feels threatened. I for one felt quite intimidated when i first posted, as i perceived the forum as an aggressive debating ground, which at times it can be, but not always, and I, like the majority of the forum have the confidence to continue, also i have seen a lot of new users just crash and burn never to be heard of again which is a shame.I remember my first post what a real hash I made of it!!! I learnt from that experience and I am still learning on a daily basis .We all post differently, some of the forumites i have had the pleasure of meeting personnally, have a different persona in the flesh than they do here on the forum and it is on this basis, I reserve making any kind of judgement of a person, until i have met them. I guess what I am trying to say is if you can't take the heat turn the fire of, or get out of the kitchen.It is after all our choice to use this Forum.

julian

OOhh did I post that ????

<hr width=100% size=1>man made it ,man can repair it, i think??
 
Its a relationship and as such it moves on. There cannot be a going back as we have been a part of an evolution - its where it is now and that isn't where it will be 12, 24,36 months from now.
I don't think there's a war going on - so see no need for a pact for peace. I think it would be interesting to see a user graph because I think it would show that we all ebb and flow a bit in terms of use and who we interact with.
Just apply your freedom and don't get involved with the people who you think are being destructive - it isn't everyone. Kim's is an interesting perspective - he cannot ban people on the ground that no-one likes them - I work with a few people who I don't have much time for and keep my communications with them to the bare minimum - same with the forum.


<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
 
temporary (ok, Final) Solution

I don't work with anybody I don't like. Although the bonding of others in such circumstances is interesting, with an e-grouping the unliked ones can be chucked out. Which is a load less hassle than firing them i can tell you. In fact [drift] i once had to discipline somebody for being very stinky. The pong was pretty awful, and the meeting was even worse. UNfortunately it started with pleasantries so the subject became more difficult to broach. However, i did eventually manage to say "oh and er one more thing - You Stink. Sorry, but it's true. There's no easy way to say it, and we're all suffocating." which actually went down ok. Mind you, he left a bit later.[/drift]

Anyway i unfortunately feel that the inability of the forum fuhrer to not eliminate the undesirables indicates [rabid right wing] namby pamby lefty grauniad-style feelings that everything will work out nicely, which it does in a classroom and the buzzer goes and usually nobody dead. Whereas if now and again if there were actually a few casualties then there'd be a bit more toeing the line. [/rabid right wing]

So to sum up, clearly it would be better if he was taken outside and shot. But in this modern wishy washy age populated by descendants of hidey-away scardy types on account of all the very bravest who led the cavalry charge being shot away by some then recently-invented and very surprisingly efficient Gatling guns, it's sadly quite unacceptable. At least in this new building i have ensured that there are not-too-high walls on the balconies so people can do the decent thing, top themselves, and save a lot of hassle and another embarassing "look, everyone hates you" review meeting. So, if there isn't to be a shooting, at least he should do the decent thing.
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