NormanS
Well-Known Member
Well, I've emailed my response, and asked a few questions, but I suspect the whole thing is someone "Empire Building".
The end of owner maintenance ...
- Thread starter rszemeti
- Start date
TwoHooter
Well-Known Member
That document says 'The Regulations give statutory force to the Code'.
The documents we are discussing are worth examining with that in mind. From the first document: Our aim is for the Marine Guidance Notes to come into force no later than the end of August 2019. The Regulations will be published on www.legislation.gov.uk
What regulations are these? Have drafts been published? Will they have the effect of turning what they say is Guidance into something with statutory force?
Before Capnsensible blows a skinfitting I stress that I'm just asking, not panicking. There is a difference.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Nice try at spin, Hoots. Didnt work though. As you are well aware, during this whole sad thread I have been advocating calm. Good to hear you have eased your sheets and relieved your anxiety. :encouragement:
Next mission is to understand what a Merchant Shipping Notice is and how it differs from a Marine Guidance Notice. I have posted the links but some seeds fall on stony ground.
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capnsensible
Well-Known Member
fisherman
Well-Known Member
I registered a new boat in 1980. Under 6M, I had to have the minimum all round white light, I don't recall flares but imagine a couple of handhelds, then it had to be measured, numbers painted on. When I applied for a grant for gear the surveyor said I needed a stop valve on the electric pump outlet, which was as high up the hull as could be. In 1983 and 1992 I had to be measured, (10mt) numbers, lights, flares, fishing signal, that was it. Yes a lot more has crept up recently, see the MSN.
GHA
Well-Known Member
It would be surprising if regs weren't increased o er the decades considering how likely it is to get killed on the job. Nothing like recreational sailing .
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-10923190/fishing-the-most-dangerous-job-in-the-uk
fisherman
Well-Known Member
But, my point earlier, how do casualty numbers relate to man hours at sea? There are (only) 12000 commercial fishermen, against ? how many leisure boaters, but I suspect, as i said, your casualty rate is low and you should lean on that.
The registration and inspection regime was random until the late eighties when we had the first safety certs, 1988 was the first sea survival course. Standards for boats were very much down to the individual inspector's bonnet bee. A man from the DTI or DoT wandered down the quay in 1993 and told me categorically I must fit an engine room atomised spray system. I did. Three months later I asked him to verify it, he told me everything had changed and he would visit again later, i told him not to bother, but not in those words.
3.5 million according to this https://www.pbo.co.uk/news/boating-watersports-seven-year-high-52066
but man hours is extant
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Kukri
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Really helpful stuff, both on the extension of regulation and on the numbers.
It seems that leisure boating is pretty safe, and that recreational sailing in particular is a very safe thing to do.
fisherman
Well-Known Member
Well its risk choice. people say glibly that, for instance, skate boarding is more dangerous than flying in airplanes, but unless you do one in place of the other your risk increases if you do both.
Ah, sorry, add to my previous, firefighting items, from 1983 on.
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rgarside
Well-Known Member
Having emailed the RYA to enquire whether they were responding to the MCA, I today received a reply confirming that
the RYA has responded to the consultation, and is also urging its members to do so.
More information can be found at
https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-ad...nsultationonyachtandpowerboatsafetyatsea.aspx
the RYA has responded to the consultation, and is also urging its members to do so.
More information can be found at
https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-ad...nsultationonyachtandpowerboatsafetyatsea.aspx
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
To put things into a context.
Last weekend I had a coolin water problem... as in no water coming out... limped home and got tied up.
Today spent a few contortionist hours tracing the problem. .. inlet free, SW pump working ... water not coming out heat exchanger.
So take off heat exchanger and btprng home to clean or at possiblt send to have it cleaned.
None of this is complicated. Six bolts and five hose clips. .... But it is entirely "safety critical". Should I be forced into a criminal lifestyle because I can actually undo a bolt?
Last weekend I had a coolin water problem... as in no water coming out... limped home and got tied up.
Today spent a few contortionist hours tracing the problem. .. inlet free, SW pump working ... water not coming out heat exchanger.
So take off heat exchanger and btprng home to clean or at possiblt send to have it cleaned.
None of this is complicated. Six bolts and five hose clips. .... But it is entirely "safety critical". Should I be forced into a criminal lifestyle because I can actually undo a bolt?
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
.....there you have confessed,mitigating circumstances when you case come up!
robertj
Well-Known Member
robertj
Well-Known Member
But that’s the point they don’t!
The governments concern is generating money through taxes, if you self maintain you don’t pay tax, if you employ some one, the revenue machine kicks in.
Pure and simple revenue collection.
rszemeti
Well-Known Member
I think, having had the opportunity to reflect, as the MCA has clearly stated that private pleasure vessels are NOT covered under these guidance notes, they should state that clearly in the guidance. If they will write it in emails but not add it to the guidance, then it begins to smell very fishy to me ...
Hot Property
Well-Known Member
Response from MCA regarding my submission:-
"I would like to stress that the MGN’s are non-mandatory guidance that the owner of a pleasure vessel does not need to follow and they do not prevent an owner from carrying out maintenance on their own vessel.
The suggestion that a boat is re-coded under the recreational craft directive when, say an outboard engine has been changed is ludicrous!
As for changing a propeller on a boat requiring some form of “checking” is crazy.
With respect to the above comment, again we would have to stress the advisory nature of the comment. It is well documented through a number of MAIB reports that an increase in power or propeller torque has the ability to significantly change the anticipated handling characteristics of the vessel (RIB). The purpose of the guidance is to give the owner areas to consider when making modifications to their vessel and that if they are not sure of the consequences of the modification, that they should ask someone to help identify what those consequences might be.
I hope this addresses your concerns"
It does not address my concerns at all....... Crowd funded legal advice anyone??
"I would like to stress that the MGN’s are non-mandatory guidance that the owner of a pleasure vessel does not need to follow and they do not prevent an owner from carrying out maintenance on their own vessel.
The suggestion that a boat is re-coded under the recreational craft directive when, say an outboard engine has been changed is ludicrous!
As for changing a propeller on a boat requiring some form of “checking” is crazy.
With respect to the above comment, again we would have to stress the advisory nature of the comment. It is well documented through a number of MAIB reports that an increase in power or propeller torque has the ability to significantly change the anticipated handling characteristics of the vessel (RIB). The purpose of the guidance is to give the owner areas to consider when making modifications to their vessel and that if they are not sure of the consequences of the modification, that they should ask someone to help identify what those consequences might be.
I hope this addresses your concerns"
It does not address my concerns at all....... Crowd funded legal advice anyone??
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
I would like to stress that the MGN’s are non-mandatory guidance that the owner of a pleasure vessel does not need to follow and they do not prevent an owner from carrying out maintenance on their own vessel.
Direct from the MCA!!!!!!
What on earth is it that people dont get???????
Direct from the MCA!!!!!!
What on earth is it that people dont get???????
Hot Property
Well-Known Member
The email from them is crystal clear - problem is that it's what is in the "guidance/regulations" that actually matters - the devil is in the detail......
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
Re propellors..
Indeed, judging by the speed with which the prop is taken off the OB when some high performance robs and race boats are lifted out .. (partially to protect them from damage) ... half the fun of high performance motorboats is changing the prop to see what it does to speed acceleration handling etc.
Regarding changing sails..
This would mean the racing boys would have to have their boat re-surveyed every year whenever they change the rags..
Another comment to go into the MCA.
Indeed, judging by the speed with which the prop is taken off the OB when some high performance robs and race boats are lifted out .. (partially to protect them from damage) ... half the fun of high performance motorboats is changing the prop to see what it does to speed acceleration handling etc.
Regarding changing sails..
This would mean the racing boys would have to have their boat re-surveyed every year whenever they change the rags..
Another comment to go into the MCA.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
So basically, what you are saying is that the heat exchanger (possiby) had not had any regular servicing & you did not follow any particular guidelines to maintain the engine properly.
So you do really need the MCA's advice & perhaps some form of regulation, to keep you out of trouble & it is precisely YOU that it is aimed at.
Well done- go to jail:encouragement:
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