The end of owner maintenance ...

Big_Col said:
I wonder what would qualify a Marine Professional? Would such a person need something similar to what gas people have in CORGI but for boats and not gas? I can imagine a whole industry forming out of implementing Marine Professionals.
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Why would qualifications work or help?

Had the kitchen redone, fitter says must have a qualified electrician, okay, afterwards I have switches now wired wrong and bare wires hanging. Chap comes to fit new shower room, must have qualified plumber to do mods, end up with hot out of cold taps and cold out of hot, cistern is now on hot water, sink is correct but don't ask about the kitchen. I fitted the originals 20 years ago, never a problem, but then I did a old type engineering apprenticeship.

Brian
 
rotrax said:
In almost the first few words of the CONSULTATION document it says one of the responses they are looking for is if their ideas are " Realistic to carry out in practice "

So, just a consultation document and they have asked recipricants to answer the above question.

So, perhaps a trifle early to start castigating the RYA for being slow

And, also perhaps not time to worry about it becoming enshrined legislation.

They cant get rid of patently unsafe 'slumboats' on the Thames-what chance policeing DIY on the thousands of leisure boats in use in the UK.

If we had a US style para military high personel and vessels Coastguard there might be a chance of enforcement, but as it stands the resources are not in place.[/QUOTE True, but boatyards/marinas could refuse to accommodate boats that have not had all maintenance carried out by their “qualified” staff. A nice captive profit source and basis for expansion. I shall respond along the lines that owners have an obligation to carry out any recommendations of insurance surveys, using “qualified professionals” where appropriate (e.g standing rigging replacement needing specialist tools, liferaft servicing etc.)), but not for routine tasks such as engine oil changes, winch servicing, antifouling and so on.
I shall also add that before producing this guidance they would be better advised to tackle the “lobster pot” problem which contributes to so many needs for rescue.
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rotrax said:
In almost the first few words of the CONSULTATION document it says one of the responses they are looking for is if their ideas are " Realistic to carry out in practice "

So, just a consultation document and they have asked recipricants to answer the above question.

So, perhaps a trifle early to start castigating the RYA for being slow

And, also perhaps not time to worry about it becoming enshrined legislation.
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No, now is EXACTLY the time to worry about it becoming enshrined! Easier to correct it before it happens! And this is now half way through it's consultation period and not a peep from the RYA!!!!

If we had a US style para military high personel and vessels Coastguard there might be a chance of enforcement, but as it stands the resources are not in place.
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Let's get this right ... so as all the marinas are being bought up by larger and larger groups, many with embedded maintenance facilities ... all it needs then is "all work done on boats in the marina must be carried out in accordance the MCGA guidelines" and there you are, no more working on your own boat, unless you happen to be a 'Marine Professional' ... notice that it does NOT say "or other competent person" ... and then you have no where else to go ...
 
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rszemeti said:
No, now is EXACTLY the time to worry about it becoming enshrined! Easier to correct it before it happens! And this is now half way through it's consultation period and not a peep from the RYA!!!!



Let's get this right ... so as all the marinas are being bought up by larger and larger groups, many with embedded maintenance facilities ... all it needs then is "all work done on boats in the marina must be carried out in accordance the MCGA guidelines" and there you are, no more working on your own boat, unless you happen to be a 'Marine Professional' ... notice that it does NOT say "or other competent person" ... and then you have no where else to go ...
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But no one knows what these guidelines may-or indeed may not-be. They will be decided after the consultation resonses have been looked at.

Has anyone approached the RYA to ask what is their response to this consultation document? Or the CA?

No-I thought as much.

But you can be sure they will respond within the time frame required.
 
I think some contributers are doing an injustice to marine professionals ie those who make their living from working on our boats. I've always (with one exception) been satisfied with the work carried out both in quality and charges. The work has been done to a standard equal to or better than I could do myself and always much quicker.
This new proposal would be impossible to police - who would know what winter maintenance is carried out in my garden?
 
You need to be on the ball. Some times someone just says some words, like "This work should be done by a professional/registered xxx" and next thing the insurance co says "What a good idea" and you are stuffed. The aforementioned MCA cert became one such insurance requirement for FVs, along with crew certs for survival, firefighting, first aid and 'safety awareness' whatever that turned out to be. Every new cert became an insurance item. The MCA cert grew out of the relatively simple registration procedure of the 70s, and now encompasses construction to such an extent that it is sometimes not possible to register a boat at all.
Example, fisherman has extended illness, boat falls off the register. Applies to register it, not up to spec, eg Rails must be xx mts high "But if we lift the cod end that high we'll capsize"
"Tough"
This is an established vessel which fished safely for many years.
A newer reg says that GRP hulls must have top hat frames fitted while in the mould, clearly impossible to comply with except for a new build.
You have all this to look forward to, and I've been warning you on here for 14 years. The MCA is looking for jobs for the boys.
 
But if it’s written in as Law then doing a bit of engine upkeep in the privacy of your boat would make you into a criminal!
I have seen it. In Spain,official inspections at your cost,so called marine surveyors,once it starts it’s never ending and yachtsmen are hardly a section of society that could organize a march to protect its rights.
 
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rszemeti said:
If you have not seen this consultation already, I suggest you read the documents and respond.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-yacht-and-powerboat-safety-at-sea

Effectively, many of the clauses woudl see the end of owner maintenance on pleasure craft.

eg:



and ...



etc etc ..
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Thanks for the heads-up, I'll read with interest. Who was it said something to the effect that "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance" ?? Never a truer word spoken.
 
Interestingly enough I have been trying to find a marine professional to get my injector pump fixed. The 2 associated with the marina declined saying they didn't feel confident in their ability to do the job. A company I emailed never replied and a professional recommended to me on this forum didn't reply to my email or phone message. I am now doing it myself. Personally I enjoy doing my own maintenance and don't see how a prohibition could be policed.

Martin
 
martinriches said:
Interestingly enough I have been trying to find a marine professional to get my injector pump fixed. The 2 associated with the marina declined saying they didn't feel confident in their ability to do the job. A company I emailed never replied and a professional recommended to me on this forum didn't reply to my email or phone message. I am now doing it myself. Personally I enjoy doing my own maintenance and don't see how a prohibition could be policed.

Martin
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If it were to happen, I suspect policing would come through insurance companies insisting on a professionally issued paper trail in the event of any claim. If that were the case, I would envisage obtaining some paperwork of my own to enable me to be eligible to work on my own boat. I already have an MCA recognised engineering qualification, so I may already be able to argue that I am qualified. Personally I cannot see this getting off the ground. It could price many people out of boating.
 
CLB said:
It could price many people out of boating.
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Exactly.

The leisure marine industry would be seriously damaged and, bottom line, it cant be that much of a problem in the real world otherwise we would be hearing about leisure boaters in trouble-DUE TO POOR MAINTENANCE-all the time.

And we dont! Even saving lives at sea does not have that many instances, does it?

And, as I know to my cost, very often a Marine Pofessional cant always do it as well as me!
 
CLB said:
If it were to happen, I suspect policing would come through insurance companies insisting on a professionally issued paper trail in the event of any claim. If that were the case, I would envisage obtaining some paperwork of my own to enable me to be eligible to work on my own boat. I already have an MCA recognised engineering qualification, so I may already be able to argue that I am qualified. Personally I cannot see this getting off the ground. It could price many people out of boating.
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Have a feeling it may get a lot harder.

I've got 8 years worth of engineering qualifications, one of the UK top apprenticeships, 20 years in senior design positions, 35 years designing, developing and building marine charging and switchgear and never made a insurance claim, Yet this year they include a new limitation on my product liability, they do not cover marine safety critical items. What is safety critical ? anything that effects the navigation of a boat, i.e. engine, so if you wanted a bit of plastic with a 250 amp fuse to supply starter motor, I cannot supply.

So what will happen if this is general, the marine engineers who fit or repair engines and steering gear !!!!!

Brian
 
rotrax said:
But no one knows what these guidelines may-or indeed may not-be. They will be decided after the consultation resonses have been looked at.

Has anyone approached the RYA to ask what is their response to this consultation document? Or the CA?

No-I thought as much.
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Rest assured, if no one kicks up a fuss, they will come out exactly as proposed.

I have written to the MCA and the RYA and tonight I will be writing to my MP.
 
My question is what are these proposals to achieve? How terrible are the accident figures these actions are expected to improve? It would appear to be a set of possible solutions looking for a set of problems!
 
nimrod1230 said:
My question is what are these proposals to achieve? How terrible are the accident figures these actions are expected to improve? It would appear to be a set of possible solutions looking for a set of problems!
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Agreed.

From the maintenance paper:
4.4 Unless specifically trained, experienced and/or qualified to do so, repairs should not be carried out by the owner, managing agent or skipper.

That would stop me doing any repair work, so if it is enforced (eg via insurers) I’d most likely get rid of my boat.
 
chriss999 said:
Agreed.

From the maintenance paper:
4.4 Unless specifically trained, experienced and/or qualified to do so, repairs should not be carried out by the owner, managing agent or skipper.

That would stop me doing any repair work, so if it is enforced (eg via insurers) I’d most likely get rid of my boat.
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The words "Specifically trained, experienced and/or qualified" are very loose.

I have 45 years pro experience of fixing vehicles of all sizes from mo-peds to 40 ton trucks plus mechanical, electrical, pneumatic and hydraulic equipment and I have several bits of paper saying so. I have been maintaining my own boats since 1977.

According to the above, I surely would be qualified? There would be serious trouble if I were considered unqualified I can tell you!

Also, is regular maintenance different to repairs?

Of course it is. IMHO, anyway.

So, a lot of ambiguity here.

It needs sorting out-and I am sure it will be.
 
Any regulations they come out with however mild will just be the start, it should be mandatory if you ask me to do your own maintenance or at least have a grasp of it, the amount of lifeboat call outs due to blocked filters and trivial issues is crazy, I repaired an outboard for someone who called out the rnli for a tow home because his engine died for no other reason than poor maintenance, he could see no issue in it.
It would take major failure and risk of injury or loss before I’d consider a call out, I try build redundancy into everything I can.
 
nimrod1230 said:
My question is what are these proposals to achieve? How terrible are the accident figures these actions are expected to improve? It would appear to be a set of possible solutions looking for a set of problems!
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That must be what it's all about, and I suspect most incidents could be put down to incompetent operation of a vessel rather than a poor standard of maintenance.
 
I find it intriguing and confusing that I would be able to maintain the brakes, steering, fuel system, etc. on my car myself (where I could easily kill and/or injure others) but not work on equivalent systems on my boat (where I would be very unlikely to harm anyone except myself or my crew who, presumably, are voluntarily with me - and even that chance of death or harm to the crew is far less likely). Definitely a solution looking for a problem.
 
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