The Dinorwic Centaur

vyv_cox said:
Many years ago I acquired a pre-war MG saloon with a 6-cylinder engine that was rusted solid. I did manage to free the rings that were rusted to the bores and get it running again. However, it took months of work to achieve it.
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That sort of effort is worthwhile on something that is historical, rare or interesting, but a Centaur is none of those.
 
prv said:
I kind of agree, but the main bulkhead will be the key. Everything else is either potentially ok, or not necessary for Dylan's plan. Talk upthread about osmosis treatment or rebuilding freshwater taps misses the point so widely it's funny.

Pete
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That's because I hadn't realised that Dylan was planning on using this as a GRP tent and not a boat. My understanding was that the boat was going to be used for four adults and a dog, for extended periods of time, across the N coast of Scotland and Islands. If Dylan and crew are happy heaving water cans around the boat and buckets of poo around every time they want to make a cup of tea or take a dump, that's cool, but they do have different standards to me as he has pointed out, and probably a lot more tolerance of each other too. I love camping...but in a tent. In a boat I don't like condensation, drips, and things that could work that don't.

Osmosis...fine...but again I'd be concerned if she has a dose of pox from the outside, and quite possibly the same from the inside now. Centaur keels are hardly famed for being strong are they, and sometimes need additional laminate on the inside...call me old fashioned but I'd be hesitating to lay up over soggy GRP.
 
omegajames said:
Even the main bulkhead is just a bit of ply.... I speak with ignorance here (not knowing the Centaur well) but with West's on-board would it be too terrible to fit a functioning replacement good enough for the purpose, even if that was just doubling the old with some of B&Qs finest?
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It is - I believe - a bit of ply which is glassed in all the way round on both sides. Removing and replacing it would be a heck of a big job.
 
JumbleDuck said:
It is - I believe - a bit of ply which is glassed in all the way round on both sides. Removing and replacing it would be a heck of a big job.
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It is, and it usually involves removing just about everything inside forward of the midpoint to get it in place, if you can at all, because the builder would have put it in before the deck went on. That's why I think for a tatty old wreck like that boat, rotten bulkhead = dead boat, however much free time you have and ability to be happy living in the cold wet windy bit of the country in damp squalor.
 
I don't think fitting a new bulkhead would be that difficult, after all with care there's the old one for a template, we fitted the forward bulkhead in my boat with the deck on; however I agree with all the other reservations about wet grp, possible inside osmosis etc.
 
I owned a Robber 25 which had a new main bulkhead fitted by the previous owner, took him a couple of weeks - including extending the cabin! So it is pretty 'doable' but still a substantial effort. From memory he had reused parts of the bulkhead which certainly helped.
 
If it's only the bottom couple of inches or so presumably it might be possible to just cut off the tabbing at the bottom, chop out the rot, and epoxy and glass in a new piece?

But then all this is hypothetical, it might be fine :) I still think that *For THIS purpose and THIS owner* it might just be a winner! :)

What are you thinking Dylan?
 
Centaurs are like buses

omegajames said:
If it's only the bottom couple of inches or so presumably it might be possible to just cut off the tabbing at the bottom, chop out the rot, and epoxy and glass in a new piece?

But then all this is hypothetical, it might be fine :) I still think that *For THIS purpose and THIS owner* it might just be a winner! :)

What are you thinking Dylan?
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with 2,500 made there are lots around

Centaurs are like buses - there will be another along in a minute

at the moment there are abour 25 on the market that I know of

most are way out of my league

three are close to my price range

but I am hopeful that something will come up well before 28th feb

this one is a lot of work and in the wrong place

A B layout in southampton with a dead engine went for under £2,000 recently

it was on the market for £2,500

I contacted the broker and within a week the price was down to £1750

then it moved before I could get down to see it - the inside was pretty good

standing rigging would need the once over but otherwise ready to roll once re-powered

another went in Novemver for £800 - I was told that the inside of that was pretty good too

I have a couple of talks to do in the south

so as soon as I have got a replacement for the dead Polo sorted out then I shall put the duck punt on the roof and take a look around the solent yards

-I will ask about - put some stickers on some unloved Centaurs and sail around chichester harbour a bit

meantime the brokers at Boatshed are keeping their eyes open for me

plus on here while some are trying to hide boats from me - some are trying to find them

people will be returning to their boats for some winter mainatenance, people will chhat to their neighbours, yard bills will start to loom large, old blokes will decide to swallow the anchor

needless to say I do have plan B and plan C

but for the time being Plan A has a few months to run.

D
 
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omegajames said:
Oh well. Let's hope someone else saves her then. You hoping one comes along with a Rocna and an Eber? :)
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I am assuming it will have a danforth and a gas cooker that will be a liability with rotten rubber pipes

I have an origo for cooking and heating

I will also take the chinese plough from katie L

electrics

- battery leds

- I will try to make the bog work but I am assuming the fresh water tank will be ugly inside if it has stood for five years

during the winter I sleep on a lilo so I am assuming we can sleep on lilos if the upholstery is rotten

the lovely flock ones from argos are great and only cost £12 a pop

D
 
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SAPurdie said:
It would take several months to clean up the glass dust afterwards though, and don't ask how I know that...
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I agree!

After grinding out rotten supports and grp in my previous boat, I would never touch a boat that needed it again. After cleaning and hoovering many times, you would still start to itch after about half an hour of sitting in the cabin. Never got rid of it either.

Dylan - I can't believe you are really considering it. Its horrible and would be worse than building from scratch as the rotten **** has to be removed first!

Regards

Carl
 
carl170 said:
I agree!

After grinding out rotten supports and grp in my previous boat, I would never touch a boat that needed it again. After cleaning and hoovering many times, you would still start to itch after about half an hour of sitting in the cabin. Never got rid of it either.

Dylan - I can't believe you are really considering it. Its horrible and would be worse than building from scratch as the rotten **** has to be removed first!

Regards

Carl
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I am not ruling out anything

we do not know if that bulkhead is rotten

although there is a good chance that it is completely jiggered

but if it is possible to patch it up .... then why not

I spent five years sailing the slug

no electrics to speak of, unlined, no standing headroom. sailed like a pig

the Polo has a cracked windscreen, 160,000 miles, non functioning radio, non functioning drivers window

I do have Wests (Wessex resins) on my side

I hope that some-one will go up and take a better look and poke things with a screw driver for me

However..... I am hoping that something better will emerge

so if you know of anything

dylan.winter@virgin.net
 
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dylanwinter said:
then why not...
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Because the main bulkhead is structural and the integrity of the boat depends on it. Ancillary bits of a car not working are not structural.

I would rather sail a boat that was structurally sound and had no engine at all than one that had a weak or poorly repaired main bulkhead and a brand new engine.
 
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Dylan

Not being funny fella, but if I were you I'd just keep schtum about all these Centaurs. You don't really need the advice, as you seem pretty much set on your course of action regardless. You are putting the precise whereabouts and eBay auction dates of all these craft onto the one forum where people might have the time, inclination and means to actually just beat you to it. TBH, if I wanted a sub £4k family cruiser project boat, I'd be tempted to go and have a look at that one in Norfolk with a fair bit less in crisp clean cash in my back pocket (if I had it!) now it's been brought to everyone's attention!

I can't understand why you'd bring an eBay auction to anyone's attention unless you were the vendor. You either need to see the boat, decide on your upper limit and bid, or take a massive risk and bid blind. However, as you've already found out to your cost there is clearly a market for these old Centaurs and you are in competition with other buyers (especially so on eBay), and I'd be gobsmacked if the buyers of these boats are not readers of this very forum. I think we now get the absolute stripped out camping/cruising for peanuts ethos that you have (not that you'd catch me up there in a boat I didn't trust implicitly with a proper VHF/nav lights/battery charging system/inboard) and I actually think it's great and I doff my cap to you. Problem is, others may now be thinking the same!

I think you need to balance the web hits/content for KTL with the more mercenary aspect of actually getting the boat you want at the price you want to pay, and keep quiet on boat specifics until you've actually gone and bought it...
 
Iain C said:
Dylan

Not being funny fella, but if I were you I'd just keep schtum about all these Centaurs. You don't really need the advice, as you seem pretty much set on your course of action regardless. You are putting the precise whereabouts and eBay auction dates of all these craft onto the one forum where people might have the time, inclination and means to actually just beat you to it. TBH, if I wanted a sub £4k family cruiser project boat, I'd be tempted to go and have a look at that one in Norfolk with a fair bit less in crisp clean cash in my back pocket (if I had it!) now it's been brought to everyone's attention!

I can't understand why you'd bring an eBay auction to anyone's attention unless you were the vendor. You either need to see the boat, decide on your upper limit and bid, or take a massive risk and bid blind. However, as you've already found out to your cost there is clearly a market for these old Centaurs and you are in competition with other buyers (especially so on eBay), and I'd be gobsmacked if the buyers of these boats are not readers of this very forum. I think we now get the absolute stripped out camping/cruising for peanuts ethos that you have (not that you'd catch me up there in a boat I didn't trust implicitly with a proper VHF/nav lights/battery charging system/inboard) and I actually think it's great and I doff my cap to you. Problem is, others may now be thinking the same!

I think you need to balance the web hits/content for KTL with the more mercenary aspect of actually getting the boat you want at the price you want to pay, and keep quiet on boat specifics until you've actually gone and bought it...
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you make a good point

but the fifty or a hundred, maybe a thousand times as many people will look at the ebay listing at the end of feb as will ever look at the boat on here

this is a small forum with a few (generally) afluent (generally) old blokes argueing the toss over a boat they will never buy themselves

and nothing wrong with that

but among the pages of information and experience free opinions any thread picks up there are a few people who have actually replaced bulk heads and resurrected old boats - there are even a few blokes who have sailed tatty old boats

and you pick up all sorts of useful info even from slightly circular threads such as this

in a previous long thread one bloke posted an image of a tiller on a pageant - it had been raised 15 inches in the most gloriously elegant manner

one massive problem with this project solved at a stroke

I also learned about the big hunters with wells and sizing outboards and that initially centaurs were designed for 10hp inboards

I know who to send images of the keel tops to get an educated opinion as to whether or not they will last the trip

so there is a downside to letting people know what I am doing - but as no-one else appears to show any interest in emulating KTL then I think that I am not raising the price of the boats I am looking at

I agree that the broads boat and the pembroke boats are in the frame

the Broads one has a high price because they are claiming that it has a decent engine

the pembroke bloke is not for moving.... yet

the inside of both of them look little better than this Dinorwic one

as for generating web hits on KTL

very little overlap between here and KTL - the stats tell me that

I come here to learn and to discuss things that I find of great interest



as for this bulkhead I am assuming that should a repair fail (why would it?) and it collapses under the weight of the mast then the roof will drop a little

no-oone will die

it is possible that there could be catastrophic failure and the mast collapse and punch through the bottom of the boat

seems unlikely

I will have sea trialled the centaur in everything the Solent can throw at it

but I will have a radio, and Epirb, an inflatable dinghy and a mobile phone with me at all times



during the past six years of KTL I have met a lot of frightened boat owners

I am sure you have met them - people who only really feel safe with their boat ashore or safely tied up to a pontoon

you should hear how the brightlingsea blokes talk of the Wallet or the wells blokes of the bar

even the Humber blokes fear the currents under the bridge and at trent falls

I am a cautious sailor and have spent many days cowering in harbours waiting for the wind to change

I am 58 now, been sailing for half a century and failed to drown either myself or my crew

part of sailing is about assessing risks

chucking vast sums at expensive big boats does not eradicate risk

in some measure I am with FDR


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EuAZsz_z_U
 
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Go for it Dylan; you're carrying the flame for old fashioned practical boating where the function of the boat was to keep the water out and get you there with minimal use of the smallish engine. A lot of rot talked about rot; people have been cutting rotten bits out and replacing them with newer bits since boats first floated. Some of the reactions are filled with incredulity, I guess you don't fit the norm for most of us with our aft cabins, Eberspachers, EPIRBs etc. Good on you and don't let them put you off.

Personally it's my and my family's idea of hell - but then I grew up with the family of four in a ****** Hurley 22 with no proper sitting headroom for a decent sized lad and a single loo under Mum and Dad's 'bed' in the fore 'cabin'. I still shudder at the memory :)

Frankly if it's watertight, floats, sails and stays in one piece then it fits all four requirements.
 
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