The Dinorwic Centaur

dylanwinter said:
all candidate boats considered

four adults and a lab

Katie L would burst at the seams

as for this one if it went for £500

pressure washer inside and out

replace upholstery with foam rubber covered with fleece

scatter cushions

Origo from Katie L

battery nav lights

some paint

replace standing rigging where necessary

as long as the keels are okay I am in business

having said that.... there are better boats out there with jiggered engines

yours....

Optimistic Ollie
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Yep, and just one or two other items. Osmosis treatment, replacement of every bit of rotten wood on it (should only take a few months), several thousand quids worth of foam rubber, wood, mastic, paint, epoxy, glass, batteries, wiring, running rigging, standing rigging, chain. Probably a few hundred quids worth of sail repairs, a working VHF, new water tanks, rebuild kits on the bog, the taps, the winches etc etc. Then you can launch it (craneage) sail it for a bit and run round fixing all the leaks and things that go clonk and don't work. And then there's the dreaded "procedure" with the chainsaw.

Dylan my Sabre had sat ashore for 10 years when I got her. She was properly packed away and dry as a bone with a decommissioned but low hours inboard...I spent months, full time, just getting her back together and launched, and a shed load of cash too. I had the same outlook as you, a quick bit of this and a little bit of that without spending much, but the reality simply isn't like that.

I think your project is great but there have got to be better boats than that!!
 
600kg

JumbleDuck said:
Greengate Metals are offering 10p/kg on cast iron (http://greengatemetals.co.uk/scrapmetal/prices/). I am pretty sure that Centaur keels do not weight two tonnes each.
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600 kg each for each keel

250kg for the engine/gearbox

50kg for the rudder

the aluminium mast will weigh around a guessed 100 kg

say 50kg of stainless gubbins

found these prices here

http://greengatemetals.co.uk/scrapmetal/prices/

no idea how accurate they are

but my guess is those will more than cover the cost of crushing the plastic bits and taking them to landfill

especially if the same bloke buys several boats

D
 
dylanwinter said:
... four adults and a lab ...
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How long are they going to be staying aboard with you? It would be a major undertaking to bring a boat like that to anywhere near a family habitable & seaworthy state. Is it worth it? The money you'd spend would pay for quite a few nights' B&B for the overflow from Katie L.
 
Add to the above costs shifting it , just cost me £500 to move a 22 footer, the guy has a big hiab so lifted on and off but still a fair sum, especially if you consider the cost of buying the boat is probably less that the haulage costs.
 
Iain C said:
Yep, and just one or two other items. Osmosis treatment, replacement of every bit of rotten wood on it (should only take a few months), several thousand quids worth of foam rubber, wood, mastic, paint, epoxy, glass, batteries, wiring, running rigging, standing rigging, chain. Probably a few hundred quids worth of sail repairs, a working VHF, new water tanks, rebuild kits on the bog, the taps, the winches etc etc. Then you can launch it (craneage) sail it for a bit and run round fixing all the leaks and things that go clonk and don't work. And then there's the dreaded "procedure" with the chainsaw.
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Your points are good, but only for someone undertaking a full restoration, not for someone wanting to put together a simple camping experience to use for a few months. I still think the bulkhead's a biggie, though.
 
Iain C said:
Yep, and just one or two other items. Osmosis treatment, replacement of every bit of rotten wood on it (should only take a few months), several thousand quids worth of foam rubber, wood, mastic, paint, epoxy, glass, batteries, wiring, running rigging, standing rigging, chain. Probably a few hundred quids worth of sail repairs, a working VHF, new water tanks, rebuild kits on the bog, the taps, the winches etc etc. Then you can launch it (craneage) sail it for a bit and run round fixing all the leaks and things that go clonk and don't work. And then there's the dreaded "procedure" with the chainsaw.

Dylan my Sabre had sat ashore for 10 years when I got her. She was properly packed away and dry as a bone with a decommissioned but low hours inboard...I spent months, full time, just getting her back together and launched, and a shed load of cash too. I had the same outlook as you, a quick bit of this and a little bit of that without spending much, but the reality simply isn't like that.

I think your project is great but there have got to be better boats than that!!
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I,

that is a fine and sobering list

and you are of course correct it would be a lot of work if aiming for perfection and a cosy weekend retreat

my standards are not as high as yours

my family are as hardy as I am

more bivouac than frame tent if you understand what I mean

lots of the costs you identify will not apply

as I already live and sail without them

water tanks.. plastic cans from Katie L

radio.. hand held from Katie L

Osmosis - never gonna fix that

heads... should be fixed -assuming it needs it

Berth cushions 3 inch ebay foam and fleece covers £200 for the lot

Lilos and fleece covers even cheaper

batteries - Katie L runs on old car batteries - leds really are a game changer

cooking stuff - mopved over from Katie L

no wiring needed - leds and battery nav lights transferred from Katie L

Wessex are paying for all the epoxy

never use anti-foul anymore - not worth it with a bilge keelers and the frequency of drying moorings

varnish - got that in the garage

standing rigging - replace as necessary - careful inspection and replacement of dodgy eye splices - dyneema is a game changer when it comes to replacing rigging screws with lashings

running rigging - bags of the stuff in the garage

sails - who knows what they are like? lots of ebay ones around

So if this one goes for say £800 that leaves me with £1200 for the other bits compared to £2,000 for one that needs little more than the old engine removed and the well installed

yours

Hard as nails Henry
 
Achillesheel said:
In pic 8 there seems to be a tide mark about a foot above the current water level. Are you sure the hull is watertight.

Walk away Dylan, don't look back. The right boat will appear.
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That's blown my theory of a recent ingress of water out the window...!
 
dylanwinter said:
Roger Bull the worlds most authoritative Centaur anatomist worked out the scrap value

stainless steel, steel, aluminium

Roger said that the value of the metals more than covered the cost of disposing of the GRP and left you up a couple of hundred


the keels are worth £400

the mast - maybe £50

stainless bits... £20

D
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Christ Dylan if my keels were worth that much my boat would've been weighed in by now, i think this is what you're on about from something i posted regarding the disposal of grp boats:

"I worked it out after having a bad week on my project, phoned the local re-cyclers up the road from me to tell them what it was (Centaur - fibreglass boat) and they quoted me £100 a tonne so you could scrap a Centaur for around £150 - £200 then go weigh the keels in at 600kg a pop and the aluminum mast which weighs around 40kg (bare pole) and the stainless, and then..................... basically i would've offset most of the the cost of the fibreglass by weighing in the metal but only if i did the hull and deck in a weekend. At the time i could've had it done in a matter of hours the way i was feeling (hull refused to dry)."

So you're only talking a couple of hundred quid tops for the metals to offset the couple of hundred odd quid you'd spend scrapping the structure.
 
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Iain C said:
Yep, and just one or two other items. Osmosis treatment, replacement of every bit of rotten wood on it (should only take a few months), several thousand quids worth of foam rubber, wood, mastic, paint, epoxy, glass, batteries, wiring, running rigging, standing rigging, chain. Probably a few hundred quids worth of sail repairs, a working VHF, new water tanks, rebuild kits on the bog, the taps, the winches etc etc. Then you can launch it (craneage) sail it for a bit and run round fixing all the leaks and things that go clonk and don't work. And then there's the dreaded "procedure" with the chainsaw.

Dylan my Sabre had sat ashore for 10 years when I got her. She was properly packed away and dry as a bone with a decommissioned but low hours inboard...I spent months, full time, just getting her back together and launched, and a shed load of cash too. I had the same outlook as you, a quick bit of this and a little bit of that without spending much, but the reality simply isn't like that.

I think your project is great but there have got to be better boats than that!!
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I couldn't agree more with you Iain hence I told him not to touch it with a bargepole.

cheers
 
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The dealbreaker is that this project is not affordably towable, which may be a first for the OPs boats to date?

I have rebuilt a 26foot 'sail away' and enjoyed the process hugely and the sailing and racing afterwards but, I was not in a hurry. AND commute time to the job site was one minute on a bicycle and NO yard fees as we know 'em...

Family of four plus dog would be a squeeze in my 36ft I reckon, even with two dinghies, space enough and all weather comfort .
Lot of hanging around to get round Scotland in reasonably stable motoring/sailing weather?

I hate pouring cold water on people's enthusiasm per se and have to assume this is part of a well orchestrated DW enthusiasm and best of luck whichever choice pops up next, Keep Tackling Locations!....
 
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Dylan

Sorry have not been feeling good and not up to a second photographic expedition....

We were preoccupied with getting 0ur boat safe. We had a bit of a tidal surge on Friday which was enough to overtop the dockside that Anna Sira is sittin on!

View attachment 38606

View attachment 38607
There is a 2005 harbour dues sticker on one of the windows which was probably the last time she was afloat!

Gareth is the property developer/owner of the Marina.

Hope to be in better health next weekend and do a bit more poking around for you.

Do you think cracking a sea cock or a little bore hole just aft of the prop would help in making an assessment of the internals.........

Steve
 
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get well soon

TSB240 said:
Dylan

Sorry have not been feeling good and not up to a second photographic expedition....

We were preoccupied with getting 0ur boat safe. We had a bit of a tidal surge on Friday which was enough to overtop the dockside that Anna Sira is sittin on!

View attachment 38606

View attachment 38607
There is a 2005 harbour dues sticker on one of the windows which was probably the last time she was afloat!

Gareth is the property developer/owner of the Marina.

Hope to be in better health next weekend and do a bit more poking around for you.

Do you think cracking a sea cock or a little bore hole just aft of the prop would help in making an assessment of the internals.........

Steve
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S

get well soon

not sure that crud should be drained into the sea

I am assuming it smelt of diesel - maybe not

if it smells okay then I guess a hose would drain it out

is there no hatch on the bloomin thing

some-one has drained some water from her to account for the fall in level

not sure that you should drill a hole in her

it would be great if you could poke the bulkead though to see if it has gone mushy

and a snap of the top of the keels from inside would be great

although I am beginning to think that she could be a massive amount of aggravation

2005

eight years abandonned - bumma

D
 
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Okay I'll say it Dylan,

this is a good time for a rethink.

You're more likely to find a Centaur with a recoverable or quite likely servicable engine, they're good boats which appeal to novices and experienced alike, and usually worth a significant amount, so there can't be that many abandoned like that one.

If crew dictates you need a bigger boat temporarily get a normal Centaur by all means and benefit from the big engine for strong tides, battery charging - inc cameras etc - and heating one way or another, then sell her at the end.

These boats are either too far gone or too good to butcher just because an outboard manufacturer and a magazine are desperate, such a boat could go on to give a lot of pleasure rather than be a frankenstein experiment - a lot of people, me included, think if you're not doing it in the Hunter you may as well do it sensibly and there's nothing more pragmatic than a Centaur with good sails & ( newish, inboard ) engine - your videos will still be as good.
 
and

Seajet said:
Okay I'll say it Dylan,

this is a good time for a rethink.

You're more likely to find a Centaur with a recoverable or quite likely servicable engine, they're good boats which appeal to novices and experienced alike, and usually worth a significant amount, so there can't be that many abandoned like that one.

If crew dictates you need a bigger boat temporarily get a normal Centaur by all means and benefit from the big engine for strong tides, battery charging - inc cameras etc - and heating one way or another, then sell her at the end.

These boats are either too far gone or too good to butcher just because an outboard manufacturer and a magazine are desperate, such a boat could go on to give a lot of pleasure rather than be a frankenstein experiment - a lot of people, me included, think if you're not doing it in the Hunter you may as well do it sensibly and there's nothing more pragmatic than a Centaur with good sails & ( newish, inboard ) engine - your videos will still be as good.
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and a £10,000 price tag

D
 
So, dylanwinter, you want to take a shallow draft boat with a big hole cut in the cockpit around the top of Scotland?
 
Seeing as a chum got an excellent late model one with a brand new 3 cylinder engine & lots of electronics for less than 2 thirds of that I think not; yes he was very much in the right place at the right time, but Centaur prices seem to have tumbled more than any other boat lately despite their being a jolly good ( if not rewarding in helmsmans' feel on the tiller feedback terms ) boat in the right hands - I have sailed a few.

I'd think you could get a functioning useful one for £3,500 especially as this is just for one mission then selling on, not to become the family pride & joy.
 
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dylanwinter said:
...not sure that you should drill a hole in her...
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success_baby.jpg
 
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