The Chandlers book

[Robin]

I speak for the vast, silent majority on here who look on with amazement at 'fellow sailors' vilifying the Chandlers, belittling their suffering, sneering, pontificating and commanding their armchair warships - and can't believe what they are reading.

The people I speak for wouldn't dream of posting on this thread. Which is of course quite handy for me, as there is no way you can prove me wrong


- W

I can assure you that you are wrong because there is a silent majority with an opposing view too. Nothing against the Chandlers, a nice couple it seems and yes everyone does something they regret once in a while. Paying a ransom though, that is where it all goes wrong, that is a no no and should never have happened.

Now I have broken my own rule, never to post on this subject.

 

[webcraft]

I can assure you that you are wrong because there is a silent majority with an opposing view too.

Prove it

- W

 

[penfold]

I speak for the vast, silent majority on here who look on with amazement at 'fellow sailors' vilifying the Chandlers, belittling their suffering, sneering, pontificating and commanding their armchair warships - and can't believe what they are reading.

The people I speak for wouldn't dream of posting on this thread. Which is of course quite handy for me, as there is no way you can prove me wrong


- W

Physician heal thyself; I agree with Maby's sentiment, although it was rather intemperately expressed. If they ignored the ISAF warning about pirate activity immediately west of the Seychelles they were foolish.

 

[webcraft]

Physician heal thyself; I agree with Moby's sentiment, although it was rather intemperately expressed. If they ignored the ISAF warning about pirate activity immediately west of the Seychelles they were foolish.

The Chandlers have denied that they received any warning - article HERE

- W

 

[Deleted member 36384]

The ransom is irrelevant, as are the Chandlers. The problem was there just waiting to happen sooner or later. If it wasn't the Chandlers it would have been another yachtsman. The Chandlers did not let the Jeanie out the bottle.

This has been a well known issue (for me since at least 2003) as I was involved in planning a delivery of a motor boat from Oman to Europe. The facts around piracy were available then. We placed the boat on a ship as it was not worth the risk.

The fact that yachtsman were sneaking through the area back then, had advice on how to stay undetected and used convoy tactics showed that the risk was understood. Blaming the Chandlers for any increase in risk to yachtsman is both pointless and churlish.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Can I clarify any incorrect details of locations, the position of known pirate attacks on the 22 Oct 2009 and the position of the Lynn Rival on 23 Oct 2009.

The EPIRB on "LYNN RIVAL" was activated at 01:33Z on the 23 October 2009 at the location 04° 31.43S 054° 26.10E. This is 60 nautical miles west by north of the town of Victoria in the Seychelles.

Early, the previous day at 05:55Z on the 22 OCT 2009 there was a thwarted pirate attack on a merchantman in the area 04° 09.00S 052° 35.00E this is very close to the last known position of LYNN RIVAL. This area was listed as 'High Risk for the next 24/48 hours'.

The above information was known in Port Victoria and was passed to all cruising yachts clearing out of the Seychelles.

The Chandlers on Lynn Rival were supposed to be headed towards Amirante Islands which is to the south west be were, when taken by pirates towards the north of a westerly point from the Seychelles and heading into the known area of high risk pirate activity mentioned above and warnings had been given by ISAF!

See the YBW forum thread of October 2009:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217765&highlight=Pirate

I hope this clarifies things?

.
.

They deny that they were given any warning. Do you or anyone else have proof that they were?

 

[Rigger Mortice]

The Chandlers have denied that they received any warning - article HERE

- W

Shades of Mandy Rice-Davis perhaps?

 

[gardenshed]

"A pair of fools who have made life far more dangerous for pleasure sailors everywhere"

The pirates already knew that yachts are easy targets. The Chandlers changed nothing.

As for "making life far more dangerous for pleasure sailors everywhere" ....

What are the alternatives if, after a few years cruising around the world, the political situation changes and you now find yourself in South East Asia and want to get back to the UK.
Go around the Cape of Good Hope?
Clockwise cruise around Africa (oh let's choose from Angola,Democtaric Republic of Congo [or whatever it is called this week], Cameroon, Nigeria, Cote D'Ivoire, Liberia or Sierra Leone....)?
Realistically, what were their options? Remain in the Seychelles? retrace their steps all the way back through Asia, across the Pacific and back through the Panama Canal?

They don't give impression of having cash reserves that would have allowed them to put the boat on a Ship and I am sure that if they knew then what they know now, they wouldn't have taken the same decision.... but what are the alternatives?

But ignoring all the thread drift, is it a good book? How do they rationalise their choices? what can we learn? Is it worth buying?

 

[RichardS]

But ignoring all the thread drift, is it a good book? How do they rationalise their choices? what can we learn? Is it worth buying?

SWMBO gave me the book this morning for my birthday so I'll have to come back to you on that one!

By the way, anyone who has sailed in places like the Seychelles will know that the communications and administrative infrastructure is such that any statement that "all yachts clearing out of Victoria would be given a specific warning notice" must be taken with a pinch of salt.

Not to say that the authorities and their people would not be making their best efforts but it's nothing like the UK!

Richard

 

[Victoria Sponge]

They deny that they were given any warning. Do you or anyone else have proof that they were?

This might be naive, as I have no experience to sailing in those waters, but doesn't it make a lot of sense to find out yourselves what's going on?

Wasn't there already evidence of pirate activity in those waters, albeit not towards small yachts?

 

[jimbaerselman]

"A pair of fools who have made life far more dangerous for pleasure sailors everywhere"

The pirates already knew that yachts are easy targets. The Chandlers changed nothing.

Exactly. The ransom market was already well established. The only mistake made was in underestimating the risk to their own particular passage. And perhaps that was because the latest information was not available to them, or they were unaware of the source.

But why not ask them first hand? They're talking about their experience at the Cruising Association. See http://www.cruising.org.uk/node/14538

 

[Slow_boat]

A pair of fools who have made life far more dangerous for pleasure sailors everywhere.

Before them, the pirates attention was fixed on large cargo ships and they needed somewhere with no functioning government to hide them while they waited for the ransom to be paid. Now, the Chandlers have suddenly shown the world that it is possible to take a small pleasure craft, with no risk of it fighting back, and collect a ransom - might not be as much as for an oil tanker, but it's a lot less effort and risk.

Just been reading of inceased pirate activity along the west coast of Africa. How long before bandits start taking people off yachts along the African Mediterranean coast? Thank you, Chandlers!

Empathy implant, anyone?

 

[lenseman]

They deny that they were given any warning. Do you or anyone else have proof that they were?

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/2009/10/28/T28100908/

 

[Heckler]

"A pair of fools who have made life far more dangerous for pleasure sailors everywhere"

The pirates already knew that yachts are easy targets. The Chandlers changed nothing.

As for "making life far more dangerous for pleasure sailors everywhere" ....

What are the alternatives if, after a few years cruising around the world, the political situation changes and you now find yourself in South East Asia and want to get back to the UK.
Go around the Cape of Good Hope?
Clockwise cruise around Africa (oh let's choose from Angola,Democtaric Republic of Congo [or whatever it is called this week], Cameroon, Nigeria, Cote D'Ivoire, Liberia or Sierra Leone....)?
Realistically, what were their options? Remain in the Seychelles? retrace their steps all the way back through Asia, across the Pacific and back through the Panama Canal?

They don't give impression of having cash reserves that would have allowed them to put the boat on a Ship and I am sure that if they knew then what they know now, they wouldn't have taken the same decision.... but what are the alternatives?

But ignoring all the thread drift, is it a good book? How do they rationalise their choices? what can we learn? Is it worth buying?

I enjoyed the book immensely, it gives an insight in to how they think, it doesnt say where the dosh came from, just refered to vey obliquely at the end, buy the book, worth £9.99, i couldnt put it down!
Stu

 

[webcraft]

http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist//ITN/2009/10/28/T28100908/

Warned by 'the manager of a yacht club in the Seychelles' . . . hardly the big official warning we have been told about, is it?

If I had listened to all the sailing advice I have been given in bars I might never have gone anywhere.

- W

 

[lenseman]

Warned by 'the manager of a yacht club in the Seychelles' . . . hardly the big official warning we have been told about, is it?

If I had listened to all the sailing advice I have been given in bars I might never have gone anywhere.

- W

In the earlier half of the year (2009) the Coastguards (Customs) in the Seychelles had completely closed any departure from Victoria, Mahé for the first part of the year as piracy has been very bad around the Seychelles with a number of yachts attacked and boarded. They would not have done that if there was no risk?

A blog by the Hacking family mentions the fact that departures were not allowed earlier in the year due to piracy:

http://hackingfamily.com/cruise_info/Indian/Seychelles_Cruising.htm

YachtPals has a list of cruising yachts attacked in the Seychelles area in 2009.

http://yachtpals.com/piracy-seychelles-4120

SEYCHELLES

The Seychelles is an archipelago nation of 115 islands in the Indian Ocean. About 930 miles east of mainland Africa, and northeast of the island of Madagascar, the Seychelles have long been a favorite stop for cruisers sailing along the African coast. Though generally safe for boating, there have been a few reports of crime in the last year. In Beau Vallon Bay, Mahe (-4.65306, 55.4589), during July there were reports of a man attempting to board and rob yachts at anchor. Fortunately, the cruising community spotted the guy, and chased him off. We wouldn't classify this as an act of piracy, and it appears the incident was isolated.

In 2009 there have been several attacks by pirates near the Seychelles, two on private yachts. Gilbert Victor, Andre Conrad and John Hoareau onboard the catamaran sailing yacht Serenity were taken hostage by pirates in March while sailing for Madagascar from the Seychelles, and the sailing yacht Tanit, was on route from Yemen to Kenya, sailing between the coast of Somalia and the Seychelles, when attacked by pirates. A tour boat and fishing boat have also been attacked by pirates near the Seychelles.

The pirates of Somalia are now striking boats of all kinds in this area. The entire area, including offshore the east coast of mainland Africa and as far as Madagascar is currently listed as very dangerous for private yachts and boats of all types due to piracy. Read more about the pirate situation in the Seychelles here: Pirates Attack Yachts near the Seychelles.

http://yachtpals.com/pirates-yachts-4092#seychelles

I was very well known in 2009 that there was a very great risk from pirates when sailing from Victoria Mahé.

 

[RichardS]

I was very well known in 2009 that there was a very great risk from pirates when sailing from Victoria Mahé.

But check out the bareboat charters from Victoria with The Moorings and there is not even a mention of piracy or any kind of restrictions whatsoever that I can find - everything is exactly the same as when I charted in 2006!

Richard

 

[lenseman]

But check out the bareboat charters from Victoria with The Moorings and there is not even a mention of piracy or any kind of restrictions whatsoever that I can find . . . . .

They are not going to change their web-page and say "Don't come and charter with us, it is far too dangerous. Pirates are operating from the lesser Seychelles islands" ?

. . . . . everything is exactly the same as when I charted in 2006!

2006 was 2006, the extended piracy out towards the Seychelles did not start until 2007/8.

 

[VO5]

Warned by 'the manager of a yacht club in the Seychelles' . . . hardly the big official warning we have been told about, is it?

If I had listened to all the sailing advice I have been given in bars I might never have gone anywhere.

- W

It is a warning nevertheless.
A warning is a warning.
When a warning of this sort is given, it must be for a good reason, and it needs to be checked.
Was it checked or was it ignored ?
Why is a warning of this sort given ?
For fun, to frighten people unnecessarily, as a joke ?
I don't agree with you at all.

Footnote:~
Actually, come to think of it I would rather agree with Maby than agree with you.

 

[webcraft]

It is a warning nevertheless.
A warning is a warning.
When a warning of this sort is given, it must be for a good reason, and it needs to be checked.
Was it checked or was it ignored ?
Why is a warning of this sort given ?
For fun, to frighten people unnecessarily, as a joke ?
I don't agree with you at all.

It was a warning given by a guy who worked behind the bar at a yacht club ffs. The Chandlers had already been delayed for a long time and decided to go. You cannot possibly know what you would have done in the same circumstances.


- W