The case against leading lines aft.

[Babylon]

Lines only marginally longer, only need a winch for the main halyard.
Lines run over coach roof, not side decks.
I can sometimes drop my main with the wind behind, so no friction problems.
Single line reeling does produce a good reef, and if executed properly doesn't need winching.
Good line management, like coiling them up, doesn't cause any clutter in the cockpit. Only my jib sheets are loose in the cockpit.
How often do you need to inspect your rigging at the mast?
I quite often go forward when I'm sailing as I can steer using a remote control on the auto helm, so I can get plenty of practice.

Good point.

But surely you want to flake any lines led aft to the cockpit - eg halyards - for a free run when you let them off?

 

[Malcb]

Good point.

But surely you want to flake any lines led aft to the cockpit - eg halyards - for a free run when you let them off?

I always throw the halyards down the hatch when I need to lower the mainsail, similarly with the roller reefing line when I pull out the jib. Helps stop any snagging.

 

[Daydream believer]

The usual single-line system has a block that slides the length of the boom attached to the tack pendant, so you can't pull down a bigger reef than the length of your boom. That's the reason third reefs generally don't use the system, it's not just collective thoughtlessness.

Pete

I have single line on 1st & 2nd reefs & i do not have any blocks in the boom.
In fact if one has used this system in the boom it might explain why there is so much friction. If a block is placed in the boom the pull now becomes 1:2( note not 2:1) unbalancing the line & increasing the load required to pull the clew

People say there is more friction leading halliards aft. It only adds one block at the base of the mast meaning i now have a bigger winch than the one mounted on the mast. I had mast mounted winches on a wooden mast & they both pulled out when winching under load. . They also had the habit of hooking the genoa sheets on a tack ( when single handed so could not control sheets as easy) so i had to fit a gaiter over the halliards & winches
Others complain of more ropes in the cockpit getting in the way -- well coil them up properly

 

[michael_w]

I'm in the keep it at the mast camp. Sheets excepted, the only line I've got lead aft is the combination pole foreguy/main boom preventer. KISS.

 

[jwilson]

As regards speed of tucking a reef in, I honestly don't think there has been any improvement on the Appledore system, perfected about a century ago. On my gaff cutter with a 450 sq ft mainsail you just go to the mast, ease the throat halyard, stick the handle in and wind; job done, on any point of sailing.

On that I fully agree - and with a wooden boom with shaped cheeks you can keep a very good mainsail shape when reefed even on a bermudan main. I once had a boat with a ratchet lever on the boom to roller-reef, instead of the windy-handle, also a good system. Easy and quick, though you do it all at the mast, which I don't mind.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I have a cunningham rigged permanently and led aft. If the weather looks like being light, it stays where it is. If it looks like it might turn into a good blow, I swap it onto the third reef tack spectacle before setting out.

I like that idea. Good tip.

 

[geem]

I wouldnt dream of leading the lines back to my cockpit. We have a flush deck, wide side decks and a heavy boat that rolls and pitches slowly. going to the mast is not a struggle even in 30+ knots of wind. In fact it is no issue at all. Using our slab reefing is very easy. The boom is supported by a permanent boom strut so no topping lift to adjust. One person can easily reef.
Having been on some smaller boats with quite rounded coachroofs where standing up on them even in the marina needs consideration for where you put your feet I can fully understand why some people can see no alternative to leading all lines back to the cockpit. At the end of the day it is personal preference but I believe some deck designs have to lead all lines back to the cockpit because it wouldnt be safe to go forward when the boat was bouncing. It is all about compromise. More internal volume and headroom or flush deck must be a common design decision on smaller boats. You can see why designers go with the headroom and volume or they would never sell a boat, hence coachroofs that you can stand on.

 

[fireball]

I have to go to the mast anyway to guide the sliders to the lower track and to hook the cringles.<snip> And even when I have furled the sail, I am normally on the cabin roof to tidy up the sail.

So - it's a poor system that you have .. not suited to single line reefing.
Our mainsail luff has ballbearing cars running up a track - no guidance needed. The single line reefing (actually it's two lines with blocks on a track in the boom) pulls the tack and clew to the right place and the stackpack & lines collects the sail.

 

[doug748]

I'm in the keep it at the mast camp. Sheets excepted, the only line I've got lead aft is the combination pole foreguy/main boom preventer. KISS.

Me too, I have enough rope in the cockpit.


Anyway I don't get out much I enjoy the trip to the mast.

 

[onesea]

> I am puzzled by boats with slab reefing at the mast and the halyard led aft.
I have that set up for racing with large crew, it works well.

> What happens if you are single handed?
Drop halyard to mark (if you have one I have not done it yet, so guess). Back to cockpit tighten halyard then tighten reefing lines.

Here is the important bit its well set up and works well, so I will not change it.

Which would I choose not what I have!

Either Granny bars and at the mast, simple low friction advantages/ disadvantages as above.
or Lead to the cockpit advantages and disadvantages as above would not go out of my way for in mast furling (I would never buy a new boat so it would always be waiting breakdown)..

Which ever system, it NEEDS to be well designed and set up. So it runs smoothly as some one said a good rigger could save you a allot of work setting the boat up just so (not saying it will be cheap).

As for flaking lines, I have just started keeping some elastic loops around the cockpit so once the sails are up reefed or what ever I coil the ropes up loop the elastic round them THEN drop them into the cabin.

Takes moments and keeps the cabin that bit tidier when I go below to put the kettle on..

When I want to drop the sail I pull it up on deck either coiled or not and its ready to drop...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Lines in the cockpit? Use halyard bags. Works a treat. Costs pennies (relative to the cost of the whole damn shooting match).

 

[Talbot]

I am having my boat set up for single line reefing at the moement. This includes:

New selden boom (to ensure blocks inside the boom cannot get twisted)
Main halyard marked for reef positions.
Double line reefing (also to cockpit) for the third reef.
Low friction blocks at all points.
New Lewmar Evo 45 winches.
Line bags below the winches to prevent rope tangles and remove possible tripping points


I single hand a lot - any reason not to leave the cockpit is good.

 

[[70521]]

AAC are taking out of their behouchie, as we Scots say.

 

[Daydream believer]

Why put blocks in the boom?

 

[Kukri]

Why put blocks in the boom?

"Never put a block anywhere that you can't get at it" (my late father, sailing career 1919-85)

 

[prv]

I have single line on 1st & 2nd reefs & i do not have any blocks in the boom.

OK. Can you explain the lead of your single line, as I've not used such a system. I can think of one possible route, but it doesn't seem like my idea would work very well so perhaps there's some other cunning arrangement that hasn't occurred to me.

In fact if one has used this system in the boom it might explain why there is so much friction.

I used to be rather anti single-line reefing having used some bad examples on old charter boats, and much preferred the two-line system I had on Kindred Spirit. However, the new boat came with "single-line" with blocks in the boom, and it's been entirely satisfactory so far. There's a little more friction than on Kindred Spirit (which is a much smaller boat) but certainly not what I would call excessive.

If a block is placed in the boom the pull now becomes 1:2( note not 2:1) unbalancing the line & increasing the load required to pull the clew

I think you must be imagining something different. Certainly nothing is rove to disadvantage.

The tack pendant is a single part, starting with a shackle to the cringle on the sail. It runs round a turning block at the gooseneck (actually built into the boom end fitting) and aft along the inside of the boom. The end of it is spliced onto a block, which starts at the forward end of the boom.

The clew pendant starts made fast to the boom, runs up and through the clew cringle (could be a block on really big sails) then down to the end of the boom and inside it. So far, just the same as for reefing with separate pendants or ram's horns. Where it differs is that it goes round the internal block mentioned above on the end of the tack pendant, then back to a turning block inside the aft end of the boom, then forward and out at the gooseneck and aft along the coachroof.

If you consider only the tack pendant, then it's a 2:1 advantage. Imagine the clew is not moving, you have a tackle made off at the end of the boom, through a moving block, then through a turning block at the boom end. That's a 2:1 whip, the turning block adds no advantage.

If you consider the clew pendant, once the tack is hauled all the way down, then none of the blocks inside the boom are moving and are all just turning blocks, again adding no advantage. What you get is the 2:1 (minus friction) from the pass through the clew cringle - exactly like for under-boom / ram's horn reefing.

Pete

 

[prv]

"Never put a block anywhere that you can't get at it" (my late father, sailing career 1919-85)

I certainly have some sympathy with that view. As my reply to Daydream Believer mentions, I have both blocks and splices inside the boom where they're hard to get at. The system works very well, but I'm very aware that if I want to replace the tack pendant it will involve drilling out rivets. Perhaps not a design I would have chosen if I hadn't inherited it. Or rather, I wish Selden had designed an easier means of access.

Pete

 

[vyv_cox]

I certainly have some sympathy with that view. As my reply to Daydream Believer mentions, I have both blocks and splices inside the boom where they're hard to get at. The system works very well, but I'm very aware that if I want to replace the tack pendant it will involve drilling out rivets. Perhaps not a design I would have chosen if I hadn't inherited it. Or rather, I wish Selden had designed an easier means of access.

Pete

I have had the balance block system in Kemp/Selden booms for more than 20 years now and never had a problem with them. After a certain incident when the crew pulled all the lines out of the boom at the end of the season I took the opportunity to replace the rivets in the aft end with Rivnuts. I replaced all the reefing pendants with Dyneema two sizes smaller than the braid-on-braid it replaced, a much easier job with the end cap removed.

 

[prv]

After a certain incident when the crew pulled all the lines out of the boom at the end of the season I took the opportunity to replace the rivets in the aft end with Rivnuts.

Ah, an excellent idea.

My reefing lines look rather scruffy - probably the originals from fifteen years ago. I think at the end of this season I may do as you suggest, and at the same time replace the lines. Going to go for green - yellow - red to indicate the severity of reef required

Pete

 

[Daydream believer]

Reef
Ine starts at underside of boom, goes up to relevnt reef cringle
Back to end of boom & inside boom to gooseneck ( no blocks in boom)
From gooseneck up luff of sail to block attached to sail with spectacles back don to gooseneck where line goes through a locating eye on the mast ( holds line forward & keeps it tidy)
Down to block on deck at base of mast
Along deck to winch via deck organiser
The sail is fully battened with dynema halliard
When in correct reef position i have a tape on the mast that comes level with one of the battens
As i take up reef line i gradually slacken halliard ( leave a turn round winch to provide friction)
When sail luff os almost in right place i lock off halliard & tension the sail