The best of Both Worlds?

[Gludy]

Having experienced 40 foot and 60 foot gin palaces and looking to the future, I am thinking that a semi displacment boat may be a better bet.

Such a boat could say do 25 knots top if you wanted to get there in a huury, do 20 knots all day but maybe do 3000 miles at say 12 knots.

I have now concluded that my other half and guests are not enjoying the getting there as much as the being there!

With such a boat you can choose to go at displacement speed and have a comforatble ride getting there!

You can pop over to the CI and fill up on cheap fuel that could last a season!

Add to that that such boats are often A class and ocean going - hence safer.

Add to that they are very roomy and can be very stylish and I am beginning to wonder why anyone buys gin palaces?

Now I know you all I hate controversy ... but just thought this might invite some calm reactions.



<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[powerskipper]

My farther is looking at this type at the mo too, will let you know what happens but will be next year I think now.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/>http://powerskipper.mysite.freeserve.com/</A>
Julie

 

[DepSol]

Fuel aint that cheap over here at the moment! it will be if red diesel gets banned.

<hr width=100% size=1>Dom

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.soltron.co.uk>the website</A>
MMS - Discount Chandlery

 

[longjohnsilver]

Cheap fuel to last a season. With a semi displacement you aint got a hope, they guzzle the stuff! You'd have to tow a bowser.

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[Gludy]

How much is it Dom?

<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[kindredspirit]

Pop around to Neyland and buy a Dale!


(But you won't get a 3,000 mile range !!!!)


<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.begleys.com/weather.htm>Useful links for Irish waters.</A>

 

[Gludy]

Well I think a Marlow would be a lot better!
3000 miles range, Kevlar hull, can dry out, plus about the best quality build anywhere with a boat tha can cross oceans.

The new Traders are also good with the new 64 exhibiting some very nice features.



<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[kindredspirit]

Actually, Paul, excuse my ignorance but I'd never heard of a Marlow before.

Looked it up on Copernic. Fine boat but nary a price.

I'd actually like a boat like that but unfortunately I'll never be able to afford it.




<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.begleys.com/weather.htm>Useful links for Irish waters.</A>

 

[Gludy]

Sorry that justr is not so with the boats I am looking at.

The 3000 mile range at 12 knots may be halfed to 1500 miles at 25 knots but you have the choice - it seems in practice the faster speeds consume about the same as a planing boat!



<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Gludy]

The Marlow is the definitive quality boat .. teak all form same tree no butt joints and laid full 5/8th inch deep, engine room with workshop and air conditioning so that you can walk around the engines in confort. Wash basin in engine room to clean your hands so no dirty hands up into the saloon ... almost silent running ... can cross the atlantic .... dry out ... good prop protection .. jvelar hull to take impact .... etc etc etc. Its really a great boatand I am about to sea trial one but I have to travel a long way to do it!


<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[kindredspirit]

Let us know how you get on.

I presume it's a plane trip to Florida?




<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.begleys.com/weather.htm>Useful links for Irish waters.</A>

 

[kimhollamby]

Careful about claims

If the boat is genuine semi-displacement it will be less efficient at higher speeds by quite a margin.

Planing hulls tend to have a sweat spot where a compromise between speed and economy hits the right efficiency. Genuine semi-displacement simply burns more the harder you push.

If you are looking for a genuine 25 knots I'd go for a planing hull -- semi-displacements can start to misbehave at those speeds. If on the other hand you are more realistic and want comfortable 12 knots with a sprint up to high teens or just touching 20s, then the other option might be best, depending on design.

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[Gludy]

Yes ... as it happens I actually got praised for arranging it - I first arranged the boat and then planned a break around it. So SWMBO was pleased with my thoughtful suggestion of a break in Florida followed later by the brainwave of tryoing out a Marlow whilst over there!!! .... its all down to presentation. ... or rather the order of presentation.

In a way I will be sad to the my Squadie go, it has been a great boat to me and I have done all that can be done to it.

At the mpment it a battle between the traders and the Marlows with a few others in the wings. In any event it will be a bigger boat and provide me with the option of what speed to travel.


<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Gludy]

Re: Careful about claims

Kim
I think having the choice is the best thing.

I accept that a semi that will do 25 knots will not be as efficient at 25 knots as a planing boat but frankly the difference seems to be less than we may expect. At say 18 knots there is a fuel saving and much improved comfort.

I also accept that it will not be as efficient when in pure displacment mode.

However the Marlow does seem to have the best of both worlds with its design. I i shall be videoing the boat and the trail as well as taking many photos - I will post some on the forum when when I return.

I really want the speed for short runs and the comfort of travel for longer runs, even in a f5/6. I want all to enjoy getting there as well as being there.

A boat that is limited to say 12 knots will just not do me. Nor will a boat that is only efficient at well into planing speeds.

"Genuine semi-displacement simply burns more the harder you push."
That is true but if it burns say 10% more than a planing boat at 25knots but offers the choice of burning 70% less at 12 knots, then that is acceptable. I think the efficieny of the planing hull at planing speeds is somewhat over rated. I will be heading for a 65 to 70 foot boat and the longer the boat the highers its effcient displacment speed.

I frankly have lost faith in the latest Fairlines, Princesses etc. I feel that my 1996 Squadie is fine and practical but as time has gone on since then the boat designs have gone bcakward. What I just photographed on a new Squadrom 58 will eventually be published on the web on a part of a site that lets the public report such problems for all to read.

So what do I go to for a bigger boat? I can go to the same but in 70 foot and have enourmous engines that get me there fast but are not enjoyable for others when in the process of getting there OR I can consider alternatives.

I am considering alternatives. The last time I did this was with the Cara jet boat and the boat I ended up with was the Squadron 59. That I think caused an historically large thread and a hell of a good row. I do not think this thread can match it

<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: Careful about claims

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

That is true but if it burns say 10% more than a planing boat at 25knots but offers the choice of burning 70% less at 12 knots, then that is acceptable.

<hr></blockquote>

Do you mean consumption will be 70 per cent less at 12 compared to 25? I'm guessing so -- certainly similar size semis versus planing hulls wouldn't see such a differential at 12 knots.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I accept that a semi that will do 25 knots will not be as efficient at 25 knots as a planing boat but frankly the difference seems to be less than we may expect. At say 18 knots there is a fuel saving and much improved comfort.

<hr></blockquote>

Why the fuel saving at 18 knots? Granted the planing hull might be slightly less efficient at that speed (varies from design to design) unless the semi-displacement boat you are looking at is substantially longer and or narrower in the beam it doesn't necessarily follow in my view.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I will be heading for a 65 to 70 foot boat and the longer the boat the highers its effcient displacment speed.

<hr></blockquote>

Yes true...of all hull forms. Assuming a LWL of around 60ft on your 65ft-70ft boat then you are going to see reasonable efficiency up to 11 knots (and better gains again if you stay below, say, 9 knots). If the semi-displacement had a kindly design towards the stern then it might conceivably be more efficient at these speeds. But to attain 20-25 knots that semi-displacement boat will have large immersed aft sections and a fat transom, just the same as the planing boat. Engine ratings might be different but amount of horsepower being used probably very similar, therefore not such a great deal of difference between two.

+++

Sorry to go off on one regarding this but there's a huge amount of tosh written about so-called semi-displacement designs. That's not to say I don't like them -- I'll take a passage on a Fleming 55 any day (as indeed have been lucky enough to do) but probably not with the throttles cracked wide open to high teens, much more like 10-12 knots where the great benefit of such a design (great big keel) can come into its own, the coffee stays in its cup and the caps stay on the diesel fillers. I owned two 7.5 knot displacement cruisers back in the 1990s so anything is fast after that! (In fact one of those boats wasn't that fuel efficient either thanks to being built like an iceburg below waterline).

Not arguing against your experiences either -- if you've had enough of big planing boats then fair enough.

Just wary about fuel efficiency suppositions.

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[BrendanS]

Re: Careful about claims

Thank you Kim. Was inclined to respond, but didn't want to get off on a Gludy arguement which gets nowhere. He only responds to ........

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[longjohnsilver]

Re: Careful about claims

I remember you having a Pedro, was that the iceberg?

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[Gludy]

Re: Careful about claims

Kim
"Do you mean consumption will be 70 per cent less at 12 compared to 25? I'm guessing so -- certainly similar size semis versus planing hulls wouldn't see such a differential at 12 knots."

The Marlow 65/70 foot boats do 1.87 mpg at displacment speed. This is for a 35 to 45 ton boat. It has a range of 3000 miles on 1600 gallon(USA) so the mpg are slightly better, nearer to 2 mpg.

No matter what I did with a 65 to 70ft Princess/Squadron etc, I could never get to near to that range nor that consumption.
I accept though that at 25 knots the consumptiopn would be higher than the planing boat.

"But to attain 20-25 knots that semi-displacement boat will have large immersed aft sections and a fat transom, just the same as the planing boat. Engine ratings might be different but amount of horsepower being used probably very similar, therefore not such a great deal of difference between two."

I totallly agree with that, that is what I am saying that there is not much difference between the two at higher speeds but I have the flexibility at lower speeds.

I am more than happy to be proved wrong on all this, almost inviting that. I am just discussing it.

I would rate the points out of ten comparing the two types of boat that I am looking at as follows:-

Planing boat in passage comfort 5 Semi-displacment 10
Planing Boat flexibility in fuel consumption choice 5 SD 10
Planing Boat space 7 SD 10
Planing boat sea handling 7 SD 10
Planing Boat wow factor 10 SD 7
Planing boat sensibility of design 4 SD 10

I would mostly use the SD boat doing 18 knots or so and probably getting fuel consumption near to my current level - if red goes to road level plus prices, I would do my crusing at 12 knots. ... at these levels I am using 25% of the fuel that use on a 65 to 70 foot planing boat.

I am graeful for your comments and would really like foe someone to prove me totally wrong ...... I am carrying out an open thinking excercise. ... thats all.








<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Gludy]

Re: Careful about claims

I thinks thats a bit unfair Brendon and I cannot see the point of your post ... what did it contribute.

I am seeking an open minded discussion on this subject and would welcome anyone, including you, tearing my arguement to pieces. I am looking for facts not myths and so wish to have exact comparisons.

Generalisations are all very well, unfinished sentences not really very good ... try contributing. You even managed to agree with me on another thread!

<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[steverow]

Paul,

Buy the Marlowe, and then we can have trips next year together in both our boats, at the same speed (ish), without me having to set off five hours before you, or in the case of this year giving up totally and coming with you on Drumbeat instead.

Dunno if I'll see you at the weekend before you go, if not give me a bell when you're over there.

What do you wanna do about the scanner?, do you need me to do anything in your absence.

Steve.


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