the belgians are right to fine us for red diesel says my Euro MP

[Burnham Bob]

Despite the RYA assurances etc and the Government's best endeavours, this is the latest reply from my Euro MP - and it looks like we're stuffed.


Dear Mr Calver,
I have seen the response to you from the Belgian Embassy, and can confirm that their interpretation of the law is correct.

The UK secured derogation from the Energy Products Directive allowing it to apply a reduced rate of excise duty on red diesel for private pleasure boating. In December 2006 this derogation fell, with effect from November 2008.

HMRC reduced the rebate on red diesel but did not entirely get rid of it, so the UK remains in breach of the EU directive.

You will see attached the letter from the Tax and Custom Union DG of the European Commission. This confirms that it is not Belgian but UK law at fault.

The Commission has already addressed to the UK a letter of formal notice on this matter , which is tantamount to the triggering of a formal infringement proceeding.


In the view of the situation it would seem you have two options: either switch to unmarked fully paid ULS diesel or wait for the outcome of the infringement proceeding and then possibly engage in a legal action. If the ECJ ruling proves to be in favour of the UK then you will be entitled to engage the liability of the Kingdom of Belgium as it is recognised that Member States have to make good the loss sustained by individuals as a result of the infringement of EU law attributable to them. But litigation is likely to be protracted and costly.

Meanwhile, I will use what influence I have to encourage the UK government to align itself fully wuth the terms of the EU directive.

I hope this helps a bit, despite your continued frustrations.

My best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.

Yours sincerely,

Andrew Duff


I can't open the attachments at the mopment, but I've sent this email on to RYA legal (who still think they may get this sorted). All in all, looks like we are all well shafted.

 

[LittleShip]

Meanwhile, I will use what influence I have to encourage the UK government to align itself fully wuth the terms of the EU directive.

****** ....... Typical dont fight them just let them walk all over us.

Tom

PS Why wont it let me say T o ss er

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Meanwhile, I will use what influence I have to encourage the UK government to align itself fully wuth the terms of the EU directive.

****** ....... Typical dont fight them just let them walk all over us.

Tom

PS Why wont it let me say T o ss er

That's the bit that leapt out to me.

Wonder if he's pro europe

 

[Appledore]

"the belgians are right to fine us for red diesel says my Euro MP"

Pro Europe and so very anti British?? I thought MP's should always put their Country's interests first? Like the fishing quota debacle, the whole thing stinks to my mind.

 

[Slipperman]

If this is correct - are we now going to have trouble in France and other EU countries too?

 

[sailorman]

If this is correct - are we now going to have trouble in France and other EU countries too?

REALLY

 

[Koeketiene]

Wonder if he's pro europe

Must be - he's Lib Dem

That should get the Little Englanders going

 

[Cantata]

Bob, I trust you will send that letter to the RYA?!

 

[sailorman]

Bob, I trust you will send that letter to the RYA?!

the links relating to the subject might be better.
i am an RYA member since 1974 & i believe they are not pro active enough on this serious matter. we are not all olympic dinghy sailors are we

 

[CreakyDecks]

He is president of the Union of European Federalists, so I can't see him standing up for UK interests any time soon!

 

[maby]

Since red diesel is legal in this country provided you have paid the appropriate tax split, can we get away with fitting a second small tank together with a change-over valve and switching to white diesel as we enter belgian waters?

 

[omega2]

If he is your MP then remind him he may out of a job come 2015

 

[Bodach na mara]

Reading the text of this letter leads me to believe that the UK government will be required to levy the full rate of road fuel duty on red diesel to comply with the directive with no exceptions. The split to take account of the use of the fuel for non-propulsive purposes would go and I also assume that adding the red dye to the fuel would also need to cease.

It will then be years before many of us have tanks that do not contain detectable amounts of red residue, making enforcement difficult if you can find a law officer hat is prepared to be realistic in application of the law. This is not as daft as it sounds. Lots of cases are reported of people getting off charges on the grounds that they could not reasonably have been able to comply with the letter of the law. This will not apply in Belgium of course, or any other country that has taken a dislike to the British.

 

[sailorman]

Reading the text of this letter leads me to believe that the UK government will be required to levy the full rate of road fuel duty on red diesel to comply with the directive with no exceptions. The split to take account of the use of the fuel for non-propulsive purposes would go and I also assume that adding the red dye to the fuel would also need to cease.

It will then be years before many of us have tanks that do not contain detectable amounts of red residue, making enforcement difficult if you can find a law officer hat is prepared to be realistic in application of the law. This is not as daft as it sounds. Lots of cases are reported of people getting off charges on the grounds that they could not reasonably have been able to comply with the letter of the law. This will not apply in Belgium of course, or any other country that has taken a dislike to the British.

It is the Dye that is the problem NOT the split

Dear Mr Bob
I apologize for the somewhat belated reply to your last email but I wanted to make sure I had all pertinent information in my possession before coming back to you.

Although I understand the difficult position you and other British cruisers are in, I have to confirm that Belgium will indeed continue to fine pleasure vessels using dyed diesel. EU legislation clearly does not allow the use of dyed diesel for leisure vessels and Member States have to conform to this. It is worth noting that Belgium also used to allow for an exemption for pleasure vessels but put an end to it on the 31st of December 2006 in order to be in conformity with said EU legislation.

Belgian authorities have been in contact both with their British counterparts and with the Commission to explain it had no other choice but to implement EU legislation. Not doing so could be considered as an infringement. The Commission has never berated Belgium for its practice of fining the use of dyed diesel. Quite to the contrary, it is my understanding that the Commission has asked British authorities for explanations pertaining to its continued use of dyed diesel and started an investigation against the UK . Some of the confusion surrounding this question arises from early letters from the Commission which unfortunately contain some inaccurate information. As mentioned in my first email, we are currently waiting for a decision from the Commission and will in the meantime continue to respect and implement the EU legislation on the use of diesel.

Regards,
Serge Dickschen
Counsellor - Political Affairs
Embassy of Belgium
17 Grosvenor Crescent
London SW1X 7EE
020/7470 3727

 

[Bav34]

Thanks BB

As an aside, the Channel Island folk will feel it first if France take the same stance.

On our (very quiet) cruise this year (Dielette, Granville, St Malo, Plouer, St Cast etc etc) I reckon at times 75% of the visitors were from the C.I.s

Would the French really cut off that revenue stream by fining everyone?

 

[robmcg]

No problem - Just avoid Belgium, possibly the world's most boring country anyway!!!!!!

 

[oldgit]

"the belgians are right to fine us for red diesel says my Euro MP"

Pro Europe and so very anti British?? I thought MP's should always put their Country's interests first? Like the fishing quota debacle, the whole thing stinks to my mind.

Simply a case of keeping the split and dumping the dye !

 

[Koeketiene]

Thanks BB

As an aside, the Channel Island folk will feel it first if France take the same stance.

On our (very quiet) cruise this year (Dielette, Granville, St Malo, Plouer, St Cast etc etc) I reckon at times 75% of the visitors were from the C.I.s

Would the French really cut off that revenue stream by fining everyone?

Last time I fuelled in the CI (Guernsey - St Peters Port), the diesel was white.

 

[Bodach na mara]

Sailorman, in the letter to the OP from his MEP I found this sentence:

"HMRC reduced the rebate on red diesel but did not entirely get rid of it, so the UK remains in breach of the EU directive."

It is this that leads me to believe that nothing will satisfy the Europeans but the complete removal of the rebate. HMG will do that and blame it on "them over there."

 

[sailorman]

Sailorman, in the letter to the OP from his MEP I found this sentence:

"HMRC reduced the rebate on red diesel but did not entirely get rid of it, so the UK remains in breach of the EU directive."

It is this that leads me to believe that nothing will satisfy the Europeans but the complete removal of the rebate. HMG will do that and blame it on "them over there."

the mep is a nobody in this problem
the ambassador states the belgian line