Terrible sale photos...why??

[rosssavage]

+1.
A boat enjoyed by its owner alone is a bit sad ?
On "Ballerina" its the more the merrier, fortunate enough usually to be able to gather a motley crew ranging from septuagenarians to latest grandson of 7 months and his mates..
Not an attractive prospect if you worry about Peppa Pig/ Lego on the floor or rusk in the carpet.
A good solid days cleaning normally restores to some state of normality.Also a good time to put all switches back to proper positions, restore all settings on NAV gear and turn bilge pumps back to automatic.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m a serious advocate of using a boat. And it will get messy and mucky. And probably a little scratched with a few dings.

It’s more the fact that you want £130k of my money, and simply can’t be bothered to make any effort. What do I read into that?

Where else have you made no effort?

 

[ari]

+1.
A boat enjoyed by its owner alone is a bit sad ?
On "Ballerina" its the more the merrier, fortunate enough usually to be able to gather a motley crew ranging from septuagenarians to latest grandson of 7 months and his mates..
Not an attractive prospect if you worry about Peppa Pig/ Lego on the floor or rusk in the carpet.
A good solid days cleaning normally restores to some state of normality.Also a good time to put all switches back to proper positions, restore all settings on NAV gear and turn bilge pumps back to automatic.

But presumably if the boat was being photographed for sale, you'd make sure it was post the good day's cleaning? I think that's the point, not that the boats have been used and got messy, the fact that the owner isn't prepared to make any effort, so what else isn't he prepared to make effort in? (The point about brokers should be cleaning them up, not sure about that. Would an estate agent selling a £250,000 house mow the grass and clean the bathroom before he photographed it? It's down to the owner to leave a boat that's for sale in presentable condition surely?)

With regards to bad broker photos (poor quality, poor resolution, or just a complete lack of), what actually amazes me is that people use brokers like this in the first place. The world is not short of brokers these days, if I were listing my £130,000 boat with a broker, I'd have a quick look at how he was representing other boats before I decided to list mine with him and make sure I used one that was making some effort.

However I suspect some people make the selection based purely on the commission level, and it is often the case that you get what you pay for. I'd hope that although a good broker who represents the boat well might charge a little more, he's more likely to get a faster sale and higher price.

 

[Poignard]

I went to see a boat whose owner had suddenly died, leaving his elderly widow with the task of getting rid of it. She couldn't face going on board and had simply handed it over to a broker to sell, as is, to make a quick sale for whatever the broker could get. The value of the boat was low and didn't warrant paying a cleaning firm to smarten it up.

 

[volvopaul]

Just having a peruse through the online brokerages, sniffing out a potential boat purchase.

Looking to upgrade form my 30 year old Princess for something a little newer and bigger. Been browsing Fairline 47/50 and 46, budget c£130k.

Why, oh why, oh why, when you’re selling something the price of a small property, can’t you clear up your s**t before taking crappy, small, out of focus pictures....

I know this has been done to death here a million times before, but seriously....

Make some effort!! I’m willing to jump on a plane for the right boat, but honestly... why even bother? How can I take you seriously if you can’t spend half an hour just tidying the damn thing up..?!? And how do you even take bad pictures these days? Every iPhone / Android does it for you!

Rant rant grrrrrrr!

I looked in mainland Spain last October, every boat was a flea put and same budget as you ,

Drop me a pm with what you want as I come across a few all the time .

 

[AdeOlly]

I'm out there looking at the moment, and I agree with the OP's position. Cr@p everywhere is a real turn off and IMO broker is almost as much to blame as owner. When I sold my last boat the photography was done with me present and we made sure that all was neat and tidy, despite the boat still being is use, and thereafter the boat was always left in a clean, neat and tidy state. Not hard. Rocking up to a smelly messy boat is a huge turn off. My thoughts, rightly or wrongly, are if the owner can't keen it clean, tidy and odour free, have the oily bits seen any TLC.

I had the reverse happen once - pictures were excellent but when i arrived at the boat I was informed the owner's 19yr old daughter was using it as her university digs. So, it was in the stereotypical state of a student lodging, including knickers lying about The condition of the boat was much worse than the photos... a complete waste of a 450 mile round trip.

 

[Portofino]

It’s a broad church people’s tidyness and where they are on a scale of 10 re OCD ness and the boat .
I guess birds of a feather flock together so forumites on here , who sit to the right of the median position in the OCD scale will gravitate towards a boat presented in a state that not too far off there score or higher .
Problem is when a say 7/8 er ends up prospecting a boat owned by person happy and oblivious of there place down @ 2 .
Of course there may be estate disposal issues from a deceased owner a long way away for estate representatives to pop down and prep it .
But having said that anything can be arranged and a good broker should at least highlight a valet and photo prep needs to be done prior to listing properly.
When I approach Sunseeker.Fr to sell my Porto , the broker lifted all the hatches and suggested the gutters needed a fettle and the E room a valet .We had a guardian who supposedly reckoned to give it a 2 weekly clean .
Broker telephoned the chap there an then and gabbled away in Fr .
We had two viewings one local , one from Germany , so the flight issue , he asked if he could bring wife + 2 kids on the first weekend it was listed ( around the same money as this boat ) Broker asked the guardian to prep it before hand .
Needless to say it went , was an a truck to Germany 3 weeks later .
Went so fast I never actually saw it agian since we listed it at the end of Sept .Broker / guardian arranged stripping on our personal possessions and placement into a storage facility.

So the point is even if the owner can’t be arsed , death , illness , relocating etc what ever reason there are folks that can prep a boat .
Btw interms of OCD ness or boat cleaning i,d score myself a 8 .

 

[henryf]

Selling stuff isn't rocket science. Sell it as it stands in a sorry state but make it cheap or put in some effort and get market value. The difficulty comes when people can't see the wood for the trees and think their boat is better than everyone else's.

Here's what happens. A boat gets advertised for £250k. It's a bit crappy. Someone sees it for sale, their boat is in better condition so they ask £275k. Someone sees that boat for sale, their boat is in even better condition so asks £300k and so it goes on. The next guy's boat has A/C, the next one has the bigger engines, the next one has the designer cushion kit....

The problem is the original boat was only worth £175k to sell.

People can't see through the mess and the dirt. If it only needs a grand spending to fix that horrible noise or get it up on the plane why haven't you done it? Because it actually needs £60k plus Vat spending to sort the problem out. Throw in brokers and the problems worsen. They don't own the boat, are guided by the vendor in terms of pricing so just have to sell their soul and get people down in the hope someone will bite.

A good broker rejects more boats than they sign up. If it isn't going to sell then don't waste the time. Insist all the boats are properly valeted and prepared before photographing it properly. If you can't take pictures employ someone who can and be über critical of the photos, if they aren't right re-do them. Take the boat out on the water so you can get decent images, maybe even invest in a drone. All of a sudden you get a reputation and people want to sell their boat with you rather than you chasing them.

Not all owners will get it but let them deal with the bottom feeder brokers who ultimately sell purely on price. They'll moan with each other about the state of the market, time wasting buyers and everything else other than the fact their boat was an over priced pile of crap whilst the guys doing it right crack on and sell some boats.

The best option is to buy of a dealer that actually owns the boat. It will be priced right, you get a guarantee and it's there to be sold. You can't eat GRP.

To sell a boat you have to prep it ready for the season. Machine polish, service, antifoul, 2 part teak cleaner etc. That way when the man or woman who's ready to buy sees it they fall in love, the boat performs as expected on a trial and if you've priced it correctly there's no need to take a significant chip. I'm a firm believer in pricing at what you want rather than adding in a chip factor. That way you generate interest and have several interested parties.

There is one fly in the ointment. Establishing market value. It isn't as easy as cars and because there is so much over priced rubbish cluttering up the shelves you need someone who really knows. Again, a good broker will have the knowledge and recent sales data to back it up.

My last boat sold again not long ago, the guy used some of the photos I took when I sold it - that was naughty. Every single photo I used was taken at the time of sale. I spent a lot of time making sure the boat was presented properly and it sold quickly for pretty much the asking price.

I sell stuff for a living so it's easy. Ignore anyone who says if I can get £x.. I'll let it go. The boat isn't for sale so don't waste your time, find a boat that's actually for sale.

Henry

 

[Lloydroberts]

It could be argued that a neglected boat presented "For Sale" in a similar state is an honest description.
Far more honest than polished and presented as cared for......from a buyer's point of view..??

 

[prv]

I spent a lot of time making sure the boat was presented properly and it sold quickly for pretty much the asking price.

Same here, and I went down every week or two (not hard as I live nearby) to make sure that everything was still clean and fresh. It doesn't take long in grotty winter conditions for the outside to start looking a little unloved and the inside to feel a bit stale. Everything clean and tidy and neatly stowed, nothing on board that wasn't included in the sale. Batteries kept topped up and everything working perfectly. Nicely printed information sheets on the chart table for viewers to take away, listing all specs and inventory and work done in our ownership, engine maintenance logbook on hand, and a systems manual for the new owner showing how to use and maintain everything.

The first serious buyer (we had one tyre-kicker and one guy who should have been looking for something completely different for his needs) booked his surveyor and cancelled his viewings of two other boats, on the spot.

Pete

 

[Greg2]

Same here, and I went down every week or two (not hard as I live nearby) to make sure that everything was still clean and fresh. It doesn't take long in grotty winter conditions for the outside to start looking a little unloved and the inside to feel a bit stale. Everything clean and tidy and neatly stowed, nothing on board that wasn't included in the sale. Batteries kept topped up and everything working perfectly. Nicely printed information sheets on the chart table for viewers to take away, listing all specs and inventory and work done in our ownership, engine maintenance logbook on hand, and a systems manual for the new owner showing how to use and maintain everything.

The first serious buyer (we had one tyre-kicker and one guy who should have been looking for something completely different for his needs) booked his surveyor and cancelled his viewings of two other boats, on the spot.

Pete

When we put our last boat (Broom 41) on the market we spent money ensuring that she was ‘turn key’. Fully serviced and valeted with any problems that cropped up immediately dealt with and like you, I was there regularly to make sure that she stayed in top condition. We were clearly the exception as most people seem to use selling as a reason to stop all maintenance and upkeep. The broker (Norfolk Yacht Agency) was excellent though and they insist on payment for a weekly wash down by their team to keep the ‘forecourt’ looking respectable.

She didn’t sell overnight but then similar boats were tending to hang around on the market for 1 - 2 years. We sold within a season and at a negotiated price that we were happy with.

When buying I have to say that I am with the OP - poor photos of an untidy boat will not entice me to travel. I might have a look if in the vicinity for another boat but even then only if it didn’t entail too much effort or deviation from plans.

 

[plumbob]

When we put our last boat (Broom 41) on the market we spent money ensuring that she was ‘turn key’. Fully serviced and valeted with any problems that cropped up immediately dealt with and like you, I was there regularly to make sure that she stayed in top condition. We were clearly the exception as most people seem to use selling as a reason to stop all maintenance and upkeep. The broker (Norfolk Yacht Agency) was excellent though and they insist on payment for a weekly wash down by their team to keep the ‘forecourt’ looking respectable.

She didn’t sell overnight but then similar boats were tending to hang around on the market for 1 - 2 years. We sold within a season and at a negotiated price that we were happy with.

When buying I have to say that I am with the OP - poor photos of an untidy boat will not entice me to travel. I might have a look if in the vicinity for another boat but even then only if it didn’t entail too much effort or deviation from plans.

+1 I had a professional survey done prior to selling our last boat............£450. I already knew that one of the old gate valve sea cocks was stuck shut so one engine was U/S anyway. Had her lifted out , washed off and a full hull and topsides polish done by the yard. Antifoul done as well. I replaced both seacocks and skin fittings myself but with non dzr fittings, which was not only quite expensive but a bloody awful job , I should know having been a plumber a ll my working life. If I didnt have a Fein Multitool i would be there now. New hoses etc and she was ready to go. Launched on Ebay and Apollo Duck the same day, we had one call from a couple from Lincs 3 days later. They came and viewed the boat afloat , asked if we had internet banking and paid the asking price deposit there and then. Because we already had a survey with all items done, the whole deal was done within a week. We achieved what we wanted pricewise and our buyers were delighted.
I submit that it has to be worth doing everything right if you want to get the right price for your boat...........there was literally no quibble and this made the whole deal soooo much easier for all parties. All that work was probably a grand plus BUT we still made a profit despite having had the boat for 12 years.

 

[novanta]

I'm a broker myself and indeed, there are some terrible ad's on the web! If its possible I want to make the pics myself, just with my Samsung but I always clean up as much as possible, and drive the boat out of her berth to get some good overal pics, especially when she is in our own marina. It can be a lot of work but I think it is worth it!

 

[Wilko81]

To be fair our boat was looking sorry for it's self in the images online . I knew it was a 3 hour motorcycle ride to go view " but " I also knew there was a deal to be had after a chat with the broker . So I made the journey to go take a look through the dirt and greening and see what I thought I could do with it at the right money .
The pictures were good of the boat , but was on a mooring under a tree looking quite unloved . Now I know I'm not playing with 130k like some but I bought said boat for 8k and just had it valued at 16k . Admittedly a lot of sweat, cursing , cleaning etc .......So sometimes the dirt and grime plays into your hands . Now most people comment on how clean and fresh looking and well kept our boat looks . I suppose it depends what kind of buyer you are ? . Me being an engineer I like to get stuck in and bring things back to life and earn a few quid trade up value . Some people are buy it and go boating so depends what side of the fence your on with buying anything .... a car ... a boat ... a house . It's all about potential and investment and see just what is possible.

I'm now keeping a eye out for the next deal again bigger and hopefully a deal on a boat I can bring back and put my own stamp on .

Happy boating people .

 

[henryf]

I'm a broker myself and indeed, there are some terrible ad's on the web! If its possible I want to make the pics myself, just with my Samsung but I always clean up as much as possible, and drive the boat out of her berth to get some good overal pics, especially when she is in our own marina. It can be a lot of work but I think it is worth it!

You won't like me for saying it but I wouldn't use you to sell my boat. If you can't be bothered to invest in a proper camera set up you aren't much of a broker. It's going to cost maybe £1,000 - £1,500 but you will then be able to take proper images, particularly of the interior spaces. Your mobile phone is NOT the answer I'm afraid.

Those images are the only thing a potential buy has to decide whether or not they want to travel to see your boat. Take a look at how the new boat manufacturers do it. They aren't having to sell condition because the boat is brand new. You have to not only sell the boat against others on the market you also have to show it's in good condition.

It scares me even more when you say, "if it's possible I want to take the photos myself." That implies you haven't even been to see some of the boats you're selling !

Henry

 

[novanta]

It's not a contest who is making the best pictures, it's how you present the boat. If you are not interested in selling boats, even the most expensive camera won't help you. Just got back from the Med to inspect some boats which had lovely pics including the 3d tour... in real life they looked different...

 

[petem]

It's not a contest who is making the best pictures, it's how you present the boat. If you are not interested in selling boats, even the most expensive camera won't help you. Just got back from the Med to inspect some boats which had lovely pics including the 3d tour... in real life they looked different...

Yep but those lovely pics and 3d tours enticed you to look at the boats so in a way job done! What was wrong with the boats?

 

[jwilson]

You won't like me for saying it but I wouldn't use you to sell my boat. If you can't be bothered to invest in a proper camera set up you aren't much of a broker. It's going to cost maybe £1,000 - £1,500 but you will then be able to take proper images, particularly of the interior spaces. Your mobile phone is NOT the answer I'm afraid.

Those images are the only thing a potential buy has to decide whether or not they want to travel to see your boat. Take a look at how the new boat manufacturers do it. They aren't having to sell condition because the boat is brand new. You have to not only sell the boat against others on the market you also have to show it's in good condition.

It scares me even more when you say, "if it's possible I want to take the photos myself." That implies you haven't even been to see some of the boats you're selling !

Henry

I am a broker too. We won't sell a boat I haven't been aboard, the camera kit cost rather more than £1,500. Try https://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/b82718/images/saloon-table-ss.jpg as one of about 30 photos of a sailing yacht. We never act as secondary broker. We won't sell planing powerboats though - I just can't be enthusiastic about them. We also quite often turn down boats.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yep but those lovely pics and 3d tours enticed you to look at the boats so in a way job done!

Exactly! The broker did his job and the advertising worked perfectly

 

[petem]

You won't like me for saying it but I wouldn't use you to sell my boat. If you can't be bothered to invest in a proper camera set up you aren't much of a broker. It's going to cost maybe £1,000 - £1,500 but you will then be able to take proper images, particularly of the interior spaces. Your mobile phone is NOT the answer I'm afraid.

I think effort is more important than what type of camera you use. Take this example...

https://youtu.be/o9AlwADbwlw
https://youtu.be/K6Ugv2qby0c

...from this ad http://www.jamesdickensmarine.com/brokerage/Powerboats/EllingE3Monte.htm.

Now James Dickens isn't going to win any prizes for cinematography, website design or even spelling but he makes an effort to work with clients to prepare the boats for sale, he knows what he's talking about and is enthusiastic. I would defy anyone to decline to view the boat just because the photos or video were taken with a phone.

 

[petem]

I am a broker too. We won't sell a boat I haven't been aboard, the camera kit cost rather more than £1,500. Try https://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/b82718/images/saloon-table-ss.jpg as one of about 30 photos of a sailing yacht. We never act as secondary broker. We won't sell planing powerboats though - I just can't be enthusiastic about them. We also quite often turn down boats.

Ghastly website but beautiful pics (extra points earned for putting the toilet lid down every time)!