Tell me about wood please.

[CharlesM]

Hello All

Having recently been dumped out of a purchase of a ferro-cement boat, I have started thinking more widely about the kind of boat I should get.

To this end I would like to know what the (boating) world at large and those in the know think.

I know ferro-cement boats are generally regarded as suspicious by European boaters, are expensive and difficult to survey, and difficult and expensive to insure. But that a strongly and well built one will last forever with minimal maintanence.

My opinion (entirely based on heresay and know-less) is that wood is high maintenance.

What is the opinion? How does it rate for
1) Survey
2) Maintenance
3) insurance
4) resale (how many people will buy them)

I have always thought wooden boats (where well kept) are the most beautifull out there.

Regards
Charles

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[Mirelle]

Good thread on this subject

on the "Classic Boat" forum page, title "Wood or GRP", I think.

Anyway, here are some thoughts

1. Survey. The difficulty lies in locating a surveyor who really knows what he is looking at, because whereas thirty years ago any surveyor was seeing wooden boats every week, this is no longer the case. Ask other wooden boat owners for a recommendation, if in doubt.

2. Maintenance. IF (and this is very big proviso!) the boat was well built and has been well maintained, then maintenance is not a big issue. It boils down to painting the topsides, if wood, vs polishing them, if GRP. Everything else is more or less the same except that the wooden boat will probably have a lot more VARNISH!!!

If, on the other hand, a wooden boat has had a period of neglect, the story may be very different. Case in point. Last year I did no maintenance at all to mine - the weather was too nice and I kept putting it off. So this year I am paying for my pleasures and am not afloat yet, whereas last year I was sailing from March 1st to December 1st. No real problems, but I have made work for myself that I could have avoided. For example I have having to take a lot of varnish back to bare wood. But no structural issues. The boat was built in the 30's.

Next to my boat in the yard is a boat, built in the 60's, which until recently was owned by (tell it not in Gath!) a gentleman who is a yottin' journalist. She was in a shocking state when her present owner, who is young, capable and determined, took her on, with an amazing assortment of cheap and dirty repairs. He has now almost finished sorting her out, new decks, several new strakes of planking, etc., and she will be fine again, but it has been a big job. That was several years of neglect.

3. Insurance. Shop around. I've never had a problem, but some of the mainstream insurers, eg Pantaenius, apparently, don't like it. The issue is that the boat may be a CTL on quite minor damage, due to the cost of repairs, but the same is true of older glass boats, and you may be lucky to get insurance at all with ferro.

4. Resale. "A wooden boat is not just for Christmas!" Seriously, wooden boats can remain on the market for a relatively long time before finding a buyer. Two reasons, really - firstly, the number of people who want wooden boats is smaller, and secondly wooden boat owners hang onto their boats for very much longer. Indeed, they sometimes get passed down in families - I know many that have gone from father to son and at least one that has gone from grandfather to father to son! This also has the effect of reducing the number of buyers. So a wooden boat can sit on the market for a year, or even longer, before finding a buyer.

Besides "Classic Boat", which is good, these days, take a look at the US magazine "Wooden Boat", or Google their website, for a whole pile of more information.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[Born_Free]

Re: Tell me about wood please. - It Floats!

Hello Charles

The previous respondent 'Mirelle' has covered most of your queries about wooden boats very well. I've had mine for some five years now, and they are not terribly hard work to maintain, but as he points out, don't get behind with the maintenance as the jobs can mount up, however most of the work can comfortably be undertaken by a reasonable handyperson/DIYer, and you haven't got to be a GRP expert to sort out the old Osmosis, just a bit of a carpenter and decorator, and help and guidance are easily obtained from the many good books that have been published over the years, and from appropriate forums like this one, the Classic Boat and the Wooden Boat ones.

Regarding the insurance if you go ahead, I do mine with Northern Reef Insurance through the brokers Kendall Becker who are specialists in wooden boat insurance and very competitive, to the extent of being about 50% cheaper than most of the well known boat insurers, who probably just don't want the business anyway. (no I have no connection, I'm just a very satisfied customer).

Finally on wooden boat surveys, and at the risk of getting my wrist slapped for touting, I could possibly help you there, if you find something you like the look of, you're welcome to contact me via the email address on my profile page.

Regards
Martin


<hr width=100% size=1>Born Free!
Now I'm expensive

 

[graham]

All materials have pros and cons.

The annual maintenance of a well built wooden boat is not too terrible BUT it cannot be neglected.

You could leave a grp boat unloved for several years and put it back in commision in a weekend of powerwashing polishing and releasing oil .Do the same with a wooden boat and major work will be needed.

Resale of a popular design which has been looked after is not a problem .Poorly maintained amateur built jobs are fire wood material usually. Plywood boats can be a nightmare ,

Any boat is likely to be easier to sell than a ferro one,I know this is largely due to ignorance and prejudice but you cant fight it.

Personally I would own another wooden boat if the right one came along but I would not consider a boat with wooden spars.They can need more maintenance than the hull itself.

Survey and insurance will not be a problem ,ask around for an experienced wooden boat man.

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[alec]

Charles,

Unfortunately, a wooden boat is liable to have a higher content of non renewable wood than a GRP boat. Indeed, many rebuilds and replicas that are a joy to see come with a massive moral price tag that spoils the whole picture for many when the human suffering and lack of a decent future is considered.

The tragedy is of course that it is all so unnecessary. With modern resins and glues plus renewable softwoods the future could be so different.

Unfortunately, we still have many wooden ‘fundamentalists’ that inhabit forums such as this and elsewhere who blame everyone other than themselves for the situation . They normally make no attempt themselves to using ethical means of building or repairing a wooden boat and one only has to buy a copy of Classic Boat to see this.

Anyone involved in teaching the younger generations immediately sees how much they are aware of the situation and perhaps the only future left for wooden boat enjoyment and being able to sleep at night rests with them.






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[Joe_Cole]

Charles has already made it clear that he is looking for a second hand boat so nothing he will be doing will have any affect on the use of materials in the boat he purchases. I'm sure that he will be able to sleep at night safe in the knowledge that the environmental thought police won't be able to criticise him.

Joe

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[rich]

SO, What do You do.with old grp Hulks, you pillock

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.jersey-harbours.com

 

[Mirelle]

May I respectfully disagree?

There is no real need to use "non-renewable" wood in a wooden boat, certainly not in the form of repairs.

Teak comes from plantations these days - yes, I grant you you can see the difference between "old" teak from mixed growth forests and the plantation grown teak that you buy today (the growth rings are wider spaced) but it is good enough for practical purposes.

English Oak is readily available from the same, renewable, sources that it has always come from - i.e. hedgerows. Look about you.

Larch and similar softwoods are available from plantations in this country.

I grant you that I am unsure of the origins of iroko (a West African timber) and most of the mahoganies and quasi-mahoganies. I am also aware that clear Sika spruce has just about vanished. Perhaps someone in the timber trade can enlighten us, as I have been told that it is possible to get almost any timber with a "green" certification.

In terms of "damage to the planet", driving a car does far more harm, whilst smelting steel and making cement for buildings road and infrastructure are quite devastating in their effect on the atmosphere. Making a GRP hull out of glass fibre (a material which requires a lot of heat to produce) and polyester resin (an oil product) in a heated factory probably does more environmental damage than building or repairing a wooden boat in an unheated shed does.

I've spent a fair part of my life in Southeast Asia. Yes, illegal logging is a huge problem, but I fancy you will find that almost all of this timber goes to the following uses:

1. paper making
2. MDF and other fibre boards
3. Shuttering plywood for concrete
4. House building
5. Furniture making

I do take rather a dim view of being tagged as an enviromental bandit just because I own a wooden boat!

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[mickshep]

What utter tripe! Resin as an enviromentally friendly alternative??? Unbelievable.

<hr width=100% size=1>My Mum say's I'm not a fat b@st@rd, just heavy boned.

 

[tcm]

Re:indeed

um, alec the tree-hugger is becoming a regular and gentle albeit somewhat demented contibutor, imho.

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[CharlesM]

Re: Environmental issues

Alec

Thanks for pointing that out. I have not thought about that issue. I will not allow it to put me off buying a wooden boat, but if I do, and when the time comes to do repairs I will endevour to use renewable woods unless there is really no other option (or rediculiously expensive).

note we use non-renewable resource (oil) to run our cars because the alternative -hybrid or feul cell- is rediculously expensive for most of us. (although there is natural gas, but that is not renewable is it?)

It is important to start taking care of our planet - there is no doubt about that.

Regards
Charles

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