Teak veneer

[Ammonite]

My new to me boat has got a vast expanse of teak veneer and while generally in great condition in places the lacquer (satin), which im pretty sure has been sprayed on, has worn a little thin, not to the extent its lifted, just so you can see more grain than in other areas which in turn has made it a little grubby.

Any thoughts on the best way to clean and refinish without removing the existing finish and starting again? My initial thought is to wipe the dirt off with white spirit and to spray a couple of mist coats of clear lacquer on with a rattle can. There are a couple of areas I can practice on that wont notice. Thanks

 

[Concerto]

It would be helpful to mention which brand of boat you are talking about. Many British builders used a laquer from Morrells, supplier to the furniture industry. My Westerly used https://www.morrells.co.uk/products...0-low-odour-high-build-acid-catalyst-lacquer/ with a 30% sheen, other grades available. It is intnded to be sprayed, but can also be brushed. They have branches all over the country, so easy to obtain. A 5 litre can is sufficient for my 32ft Fulmar with a wood interior. Cost is about £60 for the lacquer and thinners - so not a marine price. I am currently stripping back to bare wood and am very pleased with the brushed finish. If srpaying you should be able to lay down 3 or 4 coats a day, brushing is 2 to 3 a day. So very quick to apply.

 

[Ammonite]

It would be helpful to mention which brand of boat you are talking about. Many British builders used a laquer from Morrells, supplier to the furniture industry. My Westerly used https://www.morrells.co.uk/products...0-low-odour-high-build-acid-catalyst-lacquer/ with a 30% sheen, other grades available. It is intnded to be sprayed, but can also be brushed. They have branches all over the country, so easy to obtain. A 5 litre can is sufficient for my 32ft Fulmar with a wood interior. Cost is about £60 for the lacquer and thinners - so not a marine price. I am currently stripping back to bare wood and am very pleased with the brushed finish. If srpaying you should be able to lay down 3 or 4 coats a day, brushing is 2 to 3 a day. So very quick to apply.

1999 Moody

 

[Concerto]

1999 Moody

Pretty sure Moody used Morrells. Have you asked on the Moody Owners forum?

 

[laika]

I am currently stripping back to bare wood and am very pleased with the brushed finish. If srpaying you should be able to lay down 3 or 4 coats a day, brushing is 2 to 3 a day. So very quick to apply.

Apologies for the newbie questions: I'm a woodwork dunce but thought only yesterday I need to do something about my (Westerly) interior woodwork. How are you stripping back? I'm a bit nervous about sanding veneer. And are you going crazy with disassembling everything to strip or accepting that what you can't get off because it's in the corner of a joint won't be noticeable when you've finished?

What kind of kit would people be using to spray? The boat is the only use I'd have for such kit so I wouldn't want to spend the earth but then again, I'm not sure I trust the quality of my brushmanship over large areas.

 

[doug748]

"What kind of kit would people be using to spray? The boat is the only use I'd have for such kit so I wouldn't want to spend the earth but then again, I'm not sure I trust the quality of my brushmanship over large areas....."


I don't think it is realistic to think about spraying, without taking the boat apart, even then it's a tough learning curve.
Unless you have black spots under the existing finish you may get away with a light sand and overcoat. I have had reasonable results with Woodskin applied with a cloth pad. Yacht varnish is often used and just as often looks poor, unless on a traditional boat.

I have used a lot of pre catalysed brushing lacquer, which is very easy to apply and, following Concerto's link, I notice Morrells have one on their list. Not used it in this application though.

.

 

[Concerto]

Apologies for the newbie questions: I'm a woodwork dunce but thought only yesterday I need to do something about my (Westerly) interior woodwork. How are you stripping back? I'm a bit nervous about sanding veneer. And are you going crazy with disassembling everything to strip or accepting that what you can't get off because it's in the corner of a joint won't be noticeable when you've finished?

What kind of kit would people be using to spray? The boat is the only use I'd have for such kit so I wouldn't want to spend the earth but then again, I'm not sure I trust the quality of my brushmanship over large areas.

Currently I am stripping off the old lacquer as it is going milky in colour and making the sapele/mahogony interior a much lighter colour almost like teak. I would have prefered a teak interior but I do not have that.

The woodwork in the forward cabin had to be removed when I replaced the foam backed vinyl headlining, so these were the first bits I tried working with. I am dismantling a few other bits but not bunk fronts or locker fronts. The loo door, hanging locker doors, drawers and cupboard doors will be removed and taken home to work on. This actually makes it easier to work on the plywood panels. I amy also remove the bits from the loo compartment as they are fixed in to glassfibre, again making it easier for sanding and lacquering.

The veneered plywood I am carefully sanding with an orbital sander using 180 grit on a slow speed, changing it frequently as the sanded lacquer can clog in lumps on the grit and cause more problems. When sanding the lacquer is a white dust, as soon as I see it get a brown tint, I stop sanding. Then I hand sand with 120 grit on a cork block in the direction of the grain. This opens up the veneer for a better finish. When you wipe the dust off with a damp cloth you can see any areas that still have lacquer as it dries quicker. So then I hand sand that a bit more. The table is almost ready to lacquer at home, but one leaf badly failed the damp cloth test and it was too late to finish it the same day. If you leave any old lacquer on the wood, it shows up later as a cloudy whiteish area, so it does pay to get it prepared fully before applying the lacquer. You can guess how I found out. Some of the solid timber that I sanded now look mahogony and is a transformation I starting to love. Just need to find more time to strip and relacquer, rather than go sailing.

The floorboards have already been stripped and varnished with a hard wearing water based flooring varnish that was recommended by Morrells. There was only one small point I caught the veneer (luckily in a unseen area), but I was using 120 grit to sand, hence now using 180 grit. The result, after removing dark dented areas so they matched the sanded veneer, is wonderful. Much lighter and less obviously marked than before.

I do have a small area of venner that has lifted opposite the loo compartment. It has also been stained quite dark. This will require the veneer to be refixed. I have not yet decided whether to bleach the veneer before or after it is refixed. the area is only about 3" long by 1½" high maximum dimensions, so not a major problem if it does not match exactly. To fix it down I shall probably use Gorilla glue and do it a little at a time. I may cut along the grain of the raised veneer to make getting the glue in easier. When I have finished I can guarantee it will look absolutely fine and no one would normally see any repair.

Re spraying. It should give a better finish than brushing. However I am applying 3 brushed coats of lacquer. Although the pot life is up to 36 hours once mixed, I try to only mix sufficient for what I am working on for each coat. The ratio is 9 parts lacquer to 1 part catalyst, so I am using a syringe and very small kitchen measuring jug for small quantities. Always brush in the direction of the grain. Be warned, do not allow any lacquer to drip from your bush without immediately brushing it out as it will show as a low dome and looks unsightly. After the second coat I am lightly sanding the lacquer as it gives a smoother finish to the final coat.

This is not a quick job as I am a perfectionist at getting it looking right and I am working on small sections at a time. The preparation takes so much longer than applying the lacquer. Hopefully the woodwork will look like it just came out of the Westerly factory.

 

[PCUK]

Don't wipe the teak with white spirit as it will leave an oil film. Use methylated spirit instead. An aerosol of lacquer will do the trick for refinishing. Lacquer for metal gives a very fine spray.

 

[laika]

The woodwork in the forward cabin had to be removed when I replaced the foam backed vinyl headlining, so these were the first bits I tried working with. I am dismantling a few other bits but not bunk fronts or locker fronts. The loo door, hanging locker doors, drawers and cupboard doors will be removed and taken home to work on.

Thank you for such a detailed answer. There are a couple of areas around my companionway that couldn't get much worse so I shall start with those. One question though...a side effect of reassembling lockers you've dismantled to do headlining is replacing the teak plugs which you then sand down...I'm presuming touching up the new lacquer in situ Isn't an issue?

I look forward to seeing the end result if concerto is at the Southampton boat show next year!

 

[Concerto]

Thank you for such a detailed answer. There are a couple of areas around my companionway that couldn't get much worse so I shall start with those. One question though...a side effect of reassembling lockers you've dismantled to do headlining is replacing the teak plugs which you then sand down...I'm presuming touching up the new lacquer in situ Isn't an issue?

I look forward to seeing the end result if Concerto is at the Southampton boat show next year!

None of the wood I am removing has any wood plugs. The locker fronts are remaining, I am just removing the locker doors. Where there is wood alongside headlining, the headling will be protected using a high grade 3M masking tape to stop lacquer creeping under the tape, sorry cannot remember the number.

Provided the Southampton Show runs next year, Concerto is currently going to be the Westerly Owners boat at the show and I will be onboard for the duration of the show to chat and explain anything visitors want to know about the restoration. It should be completed by next September and I am planning yet more improvements.. I cannot wait until I get the table back in the boat, possibly next week after it is lacquered.


However if you are ever in Kent and want to see Concerto, I will try my best to be available to let you come onboard. I have just come off another Fulmar, Slipstream, moored next to mine in Ramsgate. The lady owner who I have met many times and her 2 friends have been picking my brains on lots of matters about boats and Fulmars in particular. Great evening. They are leaving to return to the Orwell and I am going home to Chatham. On my return I may have to tow a disabled yacht currently stopped at Gillingham Marina fuel pontoon back to Chatham Marina as he has engine problems. That will be another story if I have to do that and get him through the lock as well - all singlehanded!

 

[Blueboatman]

I have had considerable success stripping the veneers and solid wood parts without sanding , using water based ‘ no nonsense’ ( for example ) paint and varnish stripper from screwfix.
In several applications it must be said because it is an enviro/weaker formula than the chemicals of the past.
Pretty much odour free though.
Applied and then wiped around using those “ buy 20 for a pound’’ small disposable scourer foam pads and then wiped/scraped once or twice in line with the grain gently with a flat steel proper 100 x75 carpenters Cabinet Scraper . Which REALLY gets into corners and edges whilst ensuring that the panel surfaces remain nice and flat ....
Reapply stripper, rub, wipe/scrape etc.. and repeat. And repeat?
Stubborn areas and corners took 4 or 5 applications but it is a safe and economic method and avoids risk of thinning out the veneers ..

I did one whole side of the cabin one winter-and there are a lot of lockers , bulkhead veneers, fiddles and posts , edgings etc etc ..
-if you are lucky enough to have the time and patience ( mindset I suppose) enough, the only sanding required is just prior to recoating with your Finish-of-Choice.
I would say be wary of applying too many coats of ‘ some’ of the yacht satin varnishes readily available as they contain filter ‘ bits’ which will eventually block out the view of the wood and look muddy and opaque ! ( I am sure there is previous, written forum wisdom on this..)
I have zero experience of using Morrells lacquer and look forward to experimenting with it. It sounds rather good.

Concerto appears to be doing a really pretty amazing job!

 

[Concerto]

Concerto appears to be doing a really pretty amazing job!

Thank you for your comment. I always believe there is only one way to a job, that is correctly. Preparation is always time consuming and does affect the finished result of the application. However there may several different ways that will give the same result. I am talking about what I am doing and what I found successful. I have used cabinet scrappers to remove the laquer, but they take a lot more effort and time than sanding. Part of the problem for me is early onset of arthritis in some of my finger joints and if I use any powertools for too long I also get vibration finger. Neither is fun and why I prefer to work on small areas on a regular basis than several big all days working. It does mean the whole job takes a lot longer but what's the rush. All I need to ensure is the internal woodwork and external varnishing, the gel coat is fully polished, the deck given another coat of paint, etc are all finished by the end of August ready for the Southampton Boat Show (provided it is not cancelled again!).

 

[SAMYL]

About 15 years ago I had the same problems with my Westerly 33 and my local boatyard advised me to use a coating called Patina.
It is a gel which you rub on with a cloth and without any preparation of the varnished surface except cleaning. Really bad areas can have several coats as required.
It is absolutely brilliant, quick and easy to apply and it has lasted well up to now. I have no connection with the firm, just a very satisfied user. i use a lot now in furniture restoration instead of French polish as it is much easier to apply and much more durable.
I have not seen it for sale in shops but it is available from Ebay Look up Patina wood wax. Also available from Amazon.
I did my whole boat in one day!!

Clear Finishing Wood Furniture Wax Oil patina Polish Protective Finish 320ml | eBay

 

[Seejay]

Did you apply this OVER the varnish?? So no need to sand down/ apply solvent to expose the bare wood?