Teak Sealer That Leaves The 'Grey' Look?

[The Real Flipper]

I need to do a pretty big job on my teak rails as they have rust and black stain marks and I want to take care of them while they're still good.
See pics attached. Hard to tell but in last photo (against sun) there are spots quite black and 3-5 inches long in a few places. Other areas not as bad...

The Plan:
I'm ordering new teak plugs, probably from Amazon or Ebay. The lightest colored ones I can find.
I plan to clean with dishwashing soap, the teak and hull.
Then clean the teak and hull with oxalic acid (because its widely available in NL) and said to brighten nicely, and remove scuff marks.
Then I will polish the hull with (some polisher from Amazon) and seal the teak with some sealant.
Sound like a decent plan?

Le Tonkinois Vernis Marine No.1 is well recommended (also widely available in NL which not everything is!) and said to last a long time in saltwater, so sounds good.
But I'm just wondering if there is a teak sealant that maybe doesn't last as long but keeps the 'grey' look of the untreated teak.
I actually kind of like the untreated look now that I think of it.
But I will 'brown' it if need be to keep it protected as that's the top priority.

As usual, thoughts and suggestions much appreciated.

Edit: already posted in Westerly forum, just looking for as many ideas as possible

 

[lustyd]

The less you do to teak the better, it’s used precisely because it doesn’t need protection. Patio magic will remove the growth and clean it without any work (more importantly without wear). That’s all you need.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Some diluted Oxalic Acid should clear the rust stains.

 

[The Real Flipper]

The less you do to teak the better, it’s used precisely because it doesn’t need protection. Patio magic will remove the growth and clean it without any work (more importantly without wear). That’s all you need.

Well it gets more complicated because what I didn't mention is that some of the bolts must be rusting but it's a huge job to replace them now as I actually want to sail this summer

So after cleaning, pulling the teak caps, cleaning out rust as best I can, and maybe putting a touch of WD40 or (something?) maybe rubber cement to stifle the rust and buy me a year, then re-cap with new teak caps and seal. It's as much the rust I'm trying to hold back as the teak I'm protecting. So I feel some kind of sealant will be necessary.

Just wondering if there is any sealant that doesn't turn it all brown? Which is fine if I have to but I do prefer the grey look if possible.

 

[Tranona]

Think you will find most of that staining will come out with scraping , sanding and local oxalid acid treatment. I am just redoing all the teak (and there is lots!) on my boat and would not dream of leaving it bare as it goes horrible just like yours. This is what the better side looks like now with varnish, but I am stripping it all off - other side and cockpit already done - and then 4 coats of International Woodskin which is a porous woodstain specifically formulated for long term protection of exterior wood on boats. Not super shiny, but very durable, you can expect 4-5 years before a refresher coat is needed. Will post some after pictures of the other side tomorrow. On my previous boat with even more wood trim, some of it was more than 10 years old when I sold it.

Invest in a Bahco scraper, some 60 grit paper for the hard stuff an 120 for light sanding before coating.

 

[The Real Flipper]

This is what the better side looks like now with varnish, but I am stripping it all off...

You forgot the pic

 

[Tradewinds]

Maybe this barrier sealer via Robbins Bristol
TMT Marine®

I know nothing about TMT or its products

Edit: This looks like the replacement for the defunct Lignia (as used by Spirit Yachts). Be interested to know how much it is compared to 1/4 sawn Teak ( more expensive I'm guessing).

 

[Tranona]

Maybe this barrier sealer via Robbins Bristol
TMT Marine®

I know nothing about TMT or its products

Edit: This looks like the replacement for the defunct Lignia (as used by Spirit Yachts). Be interested to know how much it is compared to 1/4 sawn Teak ( more expensive I'm guessing).

That is very similar to many other products on the market for use on teak decks such as Wessex Chemicals, Teak Brite. Semco is another 2 part cleaner sealer which is popular with some, again mainly for teak decks. However for solid teak trim such as the OP has the only real alternative to leaving bare is varnish or a porous woodstain. Traditional varnishes tend not to adhere well to oily woods like teak and Iroko and my experience is that woodstains do. Lots of tests published 10-15 years ago, mainly by Richard Hares in PBO and Classic Boat confirm this. Pronably the best is Sikkens Cetol but it is expensive and rime consuming to apply. Although I have used it on masts with great success I have found Woodskin satisfactory for deck level trim where patching and topping up coats are easier. I have just done the new wooden bargeboards on my house in Cetol and it will well outlast me!

 

[Refueler]

Old method of preserving wood : Thinned varnish (start at 70% thinners - 30% Varnish) ..... wipe on and then sand raised 'hairs'. Keep wiping on coats .... and then start increasing Varnish % in further coats. If you don't want glossy surface = stop at 50 - 50 mix.

Or modern method - a stain based treatment that is anti-fungal ... or Burgess Woodseal .. (I have no connection to Burgess - I've just seen people use it and all looked good).

Here in Baltic we have a line of 'stains' named Pinotex .... in redwood through to 'grey' .....

 

[Keith 66]

If you like the silvery look that teak gets when its exposed there is an easy way that does not use expensive sealers or toxic bleaches etc.
Just get a bucket of sea water & a red scotchbrite pad & give it a light wet rub down & rinse off with sea water.
Within days it will get the lovely silvery look, Thats it.

 

[Refueler]

If you like the silvery look that teak gets when its exposed there is an easy way that does not use expensive sealers or toxic bleaches etc.
Just get a bucket of sea water & a red scotchbrite pad & give it a light wet rub down & rinse off with sea water.
Within days it will get the lovely silvery look, Thats it.

Wood such as Teak has a strange property ..... its resistant to Seawater ... but not to Freshwater.

 

[emmalina]

Same as above Oxalic acid to clean and seawater to preserve .

 

[The Real Flipper]

That is very similar to many other products on the market for use on teak decks such as Wessex Chemicals, Teak Brite. Semco is another 2 part cleaner sealer which is popular with some, again mainly for teak decks. However for solid teak trim such as the OP has the only real alternative to leaving bare is varnish or a porous woodstain. Traditional varnishes tend not to adhere well to oily woods like teak and Iroko and my experience is that woodstains do. Lots of tests published 10-15 years ago, mainly by Richard Hares in PBO and Classic Boat confirm this. Pronably the best is Sikkens Cetol but it is expensive and rime consuming to apply. Although I have used it on masts with great success I have found Woodskin satisfactory for deck level trim where patching and topping up coats are easier. I have just done the new wooden bargeboards on my house in Cetol and it will well outlast me!

So basically there is no option to both seal the wood, thus slowing or stopping the bolt rusting process, and keep they silver grey color that I actually quite like. I suppose then if protecting from rust damage is priority then I'll have to seal it. By the way have you tried Le Tonkinois Vernis Marine No.1 (what a name eh? Really rolls of the tongue LOL) The only thing bad I've heard is that it doesn't shine as much as some like. But seems like most everyone says it protects exceptionally well. Some ancient orient formula, well vendors say anyway.

Old method of preserving wood : Thinned varnish (start at 70% thinners - 30% Varnish) ..... wipe on and then sand raised 'hairs'. Keep wiping on coats .... and then start increasing Varnish % in further coats. If you don't want glossy surface = stop at 50 - 50 mix.

Or modern method - a stain based treatment that is anti-fungal ... or Burgess Woodseal .. (I have no connection to Burgess - I've just seen people use it and all looked good).

Here in Baltic we have a line of 'stains' named Pinotex .... in redwood through to 'grey' .....

What is the advantage of thinned varnish? Does it change the color less? By putting thinner coats down low?

 

[The Real Flipper]

Just had a thought, if I put these posts together- then I could 1. Clean up the teak with Oxalic Acid, and maybe a little light sanding where needed till stains are gone 2. Re-grey the wood with some salt water and sun, then rinse clean 3. Seal it up with some kind of wood seal- honestly the problem here is too many options! Anyway...

Then I could get the greyest look possible. Protected.
Sound like a plan?

 

[Tranona]

Not convinced the staining is rust, it could well be the glue that holds the plugs in. The fastenings inside will be stainless and there is no normal way that moisture can get to them to cause crevice corrosion. If you look closely at the wood you will find it is wearing away and the soft parts are wearing more than the hard giving you ridges and plugs standing proud. The colour you have is the result of deposits from the environment. Wash it with a teak cleaner as in post#8 and watch the dirt come out. I use Wessex because it is made just up the road from me, but any of the 2 part cleaner brighteners will do - they all use similar chemicals including oxalid acid. That will make it look 100 times better. On my last boat I did that every year on the teak decking in the cockpit. That was a modern Bavaria which I had from new and initially I left the small amount of teak, companionway and surround bare and even though it was under the sprayhood and a cockpit cover for 5 months of the year it looked awful after 3 years so I cleaned it, sanded it and coated with Woodskin


Photos taken 2 years after I did it.

There are many new woodsealers on the market, because they are far superior to traditional varnishes for long term durability, but in general they contain light stains and finish is not high gloss. Having owned wooden boats since 1980 I have tried many of the marine products, but since the early 2000s when the lighter woodstains came in have not used traditional oil based gloss varnishes. Le Tonkinois is oil based, non porous and forms a hard skin over the wood and works fine IF you keep the hard skin intact.

Just one more photo to emphasise durability. This boat was laid up outside, but with a loose tent type cover from 2010 to 2019 when I put it back together again. Most of the exterior woodwork is mahogany, iroko and teak and was previously coated between 2005-7 with Woodskin and only the horizontal faces like the top of the ribbing strake need flatting down and recoating. The mast is newly done in Sikkens HLS/Cetol7 and the boom in Woodskin from 2011.

 

[Refueler]

What is the advantage of thinned varnish? Does it change the color less? By putting thinner coats down low?

Instead of just applying a surface coat of non thinned varnish - which later looks like onion skin flaking off ... the thinned varnish soaks in and makes more permanent the preservative function. Plus it allows the surface to retain its natural 'feel'.

 

[The Real Flipper]

Not convinced the staining is rust, it could well be the glue that holds the plugs in. The fastenings inside will be stainless and there is no normal way that moisture can get to them to cause crevice corrosion. If you look closely at the wood you will find it is wearing away and the soft parts are wearing more than the hard giving you ridges and plugs standing proud. The colour you have is the result of deposits from the environment. Wash it with a teak cleaner as in post#8 and watch the dirt come out. I use Wessex because it is made just up the road from me, but any of the 2 part cleaner brighteners will do - they all use similar chemicals including oxalid acid. That will make it look 100 times better. On my last boat I did that every year on the teak decking in the cockpit. That was a modern Bavaria which I had from new and initially I left the small amount of teak, companionway and surround bare and even though it was under the sprayhood and a cockpit cover for 5 months of the year it looked awful after 3 years so I cleaned it, sanded it and coated with Woodskin
View attachment 140708View attachment 140710

Photos taken 2 years after I did it.

There are many new woodsealers on the market, because they are far superior to traditional varnishes for long term durability, but in general they contain light stains and finish is not high gloss. Having owned wooden boats since 1980 I have tried many of the marine products, but since the early 2000s when the lighter woodstains came in have not used traditional oil based gloss varnishes. Le Tonkinois is oil based, non porous and forms a hard skin over the wood and works fine IF you keep the hard skin intact.

Just one more photo to emphasise durability. This boat was laid up outside, but with a loose tent type cover from 2010 to 2019 when I put it back together again. Most of the exterior woodwork is mahogany, iroko and teak and was previously coated between 2005-7 with Woodskin and only the horizontal faces like the top of the ribbing strake need flatting down and recoating. The mast is newly done in Sikkens HLS/Cetol7 and the boom in Woodskin from 2011.
View attachment 140714

Yep, looks pretty sharp! Not as glossy as the varnish types but like I said I actually prefer that more natural look.
After some searching I found the 'natural' Teak Woodskin from Sikkens:
https://www.amazon.com/Interlux-IVA316-QT-Natural-Fluid_Ounces/dp/B0017KQKX8

But then as with so many things here in Europe, either rebranded or entirely different products are actually available.
Since Brexit many if not most products I used to order from the UK are no longer available or have gone up so much in price it's silly.

Locally I've found Sikkins Cetol TGX, TGL, HLS, HLS 7, Filter 7 Plus, TC, etc etc.
None of which actually mention Teak.
This is what I'm spending most of my time with lately trying to translate recommendations into something I can actually buy at a reasonable price.
Generally speaking if it's in the UK it doesn't qualify. Not only is the price higher now, but they've jacked up the shipping as well.

Amazon will ship the Natural Teak to The Netherlands, for only $256. LOL
So I may be stuck with the Le Tonkinois for this round. Maybe I'll try turpentine watering down of first layers as Refueler suggested.

 

[The Real Flipper]

Instead of just applying a surface coat of non thinned varnish - which later looks like onion skin flaking off ... the thinned varnish soaks in and makes more permanent the preservative function. Plus it allows the surface to retain its natural 'feel'.

By the way, I have turpentine, is that good or do I need thinner for this?

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Bit off topic but what do folks do with a teak cockpit grating. Years ago we used to Teak Oil them as they did not get much UV.

 

[Refueler]

By the way, I have turpentine, is that good or do I need thinner for this?

Read varnish tin label .... we are talking traditional one part varnish.