Teak Replacement

jimmy_the_builder said:
Wattsons in the UK will do this for you: they made a teak sheet for my one-off bathing platform. I templated it (using polystyrene sheet); and in return they sent me two deck panels (one for a hatch). Perfect fit.
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I don't doubt that they made a great job, J.
Otoh, a swim platform is possibly the easiest teak job: no curves (aside possibly from borders, but normally they don't need planks bending), horizontally straight, etc.

Anyway, am I right in understanding that aside from the hatch they made a single panel for the whole platform?
That must have been a helluva big panel to deal with!
I mean, even for transport, before even talking of sticking it on the platform...
 
MapisM said:
I don't doubt that they made a great job, J.
Otoh, a swim platform is possibly the easiest teak job: no curves (aside possibly from borders, but normally they don't need planks bending), horizontally straight, etc.

Anyway, am I right in understanding that aside from the hatch they made a single panel for the whole platform?
That must have been a helluva big panel to deal with!
I mean, even for transport, before even talking of sticking it on the platform...
Click to expand...

Actually no, thinking about it, the main platform was covered by two sheets, principally for the practicalities of transport, as you suggest.
 
Been thinking.
Because we now have both real teak and Flexiteak this year, I thought I would get a surface thermometer and do some tests during the summer.
I thought it might be worth sanding a small part of the old teak so that the surfaces so that there isn't any surface cooling going on due to the wear of my old teak.
I thought I would use a cheap contactless thermometer (kitchen/food style) as accuracy isn't as important as the difference in temperature.
Looking at some of the user reviews, these contactless devices should be accurate enough.

BTW
I think I heard somewhere that Watsons are considering offering Flexiteak as an alternative - it would make sense for them - the skills are very similar and offering it shouldn't affect their sales/proffits.
 
Piers said:
Can you let us know the bottom line costs between real and Flexi?
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I had chosen Flexiteak on the basis of staying cleaner and easier to maintain, and was pleased to find this would be a £2678 price reduction for my new-build Nimbus 405 Fly (13.33m LoA, 3.88m Beam, Cockpit, side decks and flybridge).

Just to give you some idea.
 
Piers said:
Can you let us know the bottom line costs between real and Flexi?
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Ok, I have a like for like quote. This was for the bathing platform, small steps up from the platform, and the walkway into the cockpit on my sunseeker Superhawk 50. It includes a couple of fiddly bits, so let’s not get hung up on whether it’s a good price or not, but for the purposes of this exercise will act as a direct comparison price wise.

Flexiteek G2. £2945 + VAT
Real teak. £3905 + VAT

A not insignificant difference although I suspect it would be a narrower difference over a larger area.
 
Hurricane said:
Been thinking.
Because we now have both real teak and Flexiteak this year, I thought I would get a surface thermometer and do some tests during the summer.
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Hurricane, as I see it that would not work. The problem is much more than just temperature. The problem is that the plastic deck has materially higher heat capacity than wood AND it can conduct that heat to its surface far faster. =Perfect storm.

When I say heat capacity I mean it in the strictest sense - joules per degree C.

When you take food out of the oven at 220deg C the tinfoil on top is also 220deg C but you can touch it because it contains almost no heat energy / has no heat capacity despite being hot.

At least, that's what I think. Happy to hear other thoughts on this.
 
MapisM said:
... single panel for the whole platform?
That must have been a helluva big panel to deal with!
I mean, even for transport, before even talking of sticking it on the platform...
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FWIW here are some teak plank panels being glued then vacuum bagged - they are quite big - the full length of the flybridge on Sq78. These are teak only - no plywood backing

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After seeing Hurricane,s bathing platform ,and a couple of others just put our order in for replacement flexiteak on our bathing platform , was going to order real teak from watsons ,but they increased there quote by quite a large percentage , quote was over a year old ,
To supply and install flexiteak comming out similar price for supply only from Watsons , not likely to have a problem re heat (I wish), have used semco sealer for last ten years so hopefully bit less work also no problem to tone old teak to match new flexiteak if there is a difference , but what I have seen up close looks perfect .
 
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jfm said:
FWIW here are some teak plank panels being glued then vacuum bagged
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Impressive organization.
Am I right in understanding that in your first two pics the visible side of the panel is the lower one, with some kind of transparent glue on it? Or is it just a primer? I am asking because I always saw teak glued to the deck with some black stuff.
Not sure if it was the same normally used for caulking (Sika 290, IIRC), but same colour anyway.

Ref. heat measurement, I agree with your thoughts in principle, but I believe that there should be a relevant temperature difference anyway.
I mean, natural wood has many fantastic properties, but also teak decks can get very hot, and are MUCH worse than bare grp in this respect.
So, if synthetic teak is even worse (no first hand experience, but I have no reason to doubt what several folks reported), surely it's bound to reach a higher temp, AOTBE.

Btw, Hurric, don't you have an IR gun onboard?
If yes, that's more than enough accurate for the comparison you are envisaging.
And if not, buy one. That's the best 20 quids or so that you can spend for checking/comparing the temperatures of all engine components inside the e/r.
 
What are the wearing out statistics for Flexiteek? the reason I ask is prompted by the tin foil analogy above by JFM. The thinner it is, the less heat it will retain. Also the question I asked about white caulking, answered by Hurricane a while ago, is relevant from a radiated heat point of view in realation to the thickness. The substrate will obviously retain heat but dependant on the thickness of the Flexiteek. Or am I whistling in the wind?
 
Cheery said:
What are the wearing out statistics for Flexiteek? the reason I ask is prompted by the tin foil analogy above by JFM. The thinner it is, the less heat it will retain. Also the question I asked about white caulking, answered by Hurricane a while ago, is relevant from a radiated heat point of view in realation to the thickness. The substrate will obviously retain heat but dependant on the thickness of the Flexiteek. Or am I whistling in the wind?
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You're right the thinner the better, as regards heat. But I suspect if they make it any thinner it will look ripply. It needs a certain amount of stiffness, created by thickness, to force the glue to where it needs to go so that the fake teak looks flat. At least that is my best guess.
 
MapisM said:
Btw, Hurric, don't you have an IR gun onboard?
If yes, that's more than enough accurate for the comparison you are envisaging.
And if not, buy one. That's the best 20 quids or so that you can spend for checking/comparing the temperatures of all engine components inside the e/r.
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Those heat guns just give a single value for the spot you point at. What you really would like to see want to see is a pattern - eg look at an electrical panel and see a hotspot. For that you could use this little beaut that I just bought and will try when next on boat, and report back... https://www.pass-thermal.co.uk/flir...MIj9vax8fn2QIV6pztCh3qWAN7EAQYASABEgKs6PD_BwE
 
MapisM said:
Impressive organization.
Am I right in understanding that in your first two pics the visible side of the panel is the lower one, with some kind of transparent glue on it? Or is it just a primer? I am asking because I always saw teak glued to the deck with some black stuff.
Not sure if it was the same normally used for caulking (Sika 290, IIRC), but same colour anyway.
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The teak panels have a v thin GRP scrim on the bottom. Yes you're right that the pic shows the lower side of the teak, with thin transparent glue. The glue is a version of a 2 part polyurethane based contact adhesive, based on one of these http://alpha-adhesives.co.uk/our-products/solvent-based/ , and obviously specially formulated in terms of timing and viscosity for the vacuum bagged decks work. It is much thinner/wetter than Sika 291 style glues yet is same polyurethane chemistry; it is brush painted rather like wallpaper paste. As you can imagine the labour saving time is immense and you get a better less messy job not so prone to human error, plus of course if you have to remove the teak you don't have a 3mm (?) layer of black glue to deal with. Also the vac bagging and system generally ensures there are no screws which is a v important specification point in my book.
 
jfm said:
Also the vac bagging and system generally ensures there are no screws which is a v important specification point in my book.
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+1000

looked at some old teak decks with screws, amazing mess, water leaks, awful stuff. No screws is the only way to go imho.

V
 
OK - we are out on the boat for this week with our daughter.
Just hoping for a bit of sunshine.
Yesterday, we went shopping at Lidl - the only place where we can buy proper "back bacon".
In the cheap stuff, they had some of those cheap laser thermometers so I bought one.
It really works quite well.
Just point it at something and it reads the temperature.
Pointing at my arm it read my body temperature - then pointed it at the iced caramel drink that we keep in the freezer - that showed about -4 degrees C
And pointing it at other surfaces, it showed the temperature that you would have expected.

Today, the sun came out (absolutely clear sky) so I put the battery into the thermometer and tried the teak.
There was a slight breeze (about 1 or 2 knots) and I haven't yet sanded the old teak.
The new Flexiteak is just like new teak - absolutely flat and comfortable under foot.
The old teak has ridges between 1 and 2 mm deep.
It is difficult to be precise but there is a difference in temp between the Flexiteak and the real teak of about 5 degrees C
Flexiteak at about 46 degrees and the teak at about 41 degrees.
However that isn't a very conclusive test.
I tested the Flexiteak on the actual bathing platform where there isn't much breeze
And I tested the old teak on the top step of the cockpit where the sun was shining
Today, the breeze was running through cockpit and would have had a cooling effect on the teak.
Also the ridges would have been working like fins.

To the foot, there wasn't that much difference in the feel.
Except that the new was much nicer - smoother - but then again, new teak would have been that smooth as well.

The most important thing to me is going to be that it is WAY easier to clean and (more importantly) keep looking like new.
I'm sure that the Flexiteak wont get the ridges that the old teak now has.

We will see - later in the season - if it is worth doing the rest of the boat.

BTW Flexiteak is much the same thickness as the teak that was previously fitted and a bit thicker that the old teak that is left - it is amazing how much real teak erodes.
 
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petem said:
How would you measure that JFM (without standing on it for 2 seconds then measuring the surface temperature again)?
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Difficult to measure diy but easily done in a controlled lab environment. You'd normally look it up on the datasheet for the material. You don't need to know a precise value so far as decks are concerned: experience tells us the value is fine for wood and not fine for the dark matt plastic that decks are made from. Hurricane will get away with it on swim platform where there is much water on hand but there is no way I would have plastic on the flybridge or main deck, having experienced it for 2 years on my brother's boat where it was a big problem in August with smallish kids.

I don't want to pick a fight but I do think Hurricane is somewhat missing the point by measuring surface temperature. Although that will be far higher on the plastic deck come July/August. If I take out of my 220deg oven a paper clip and a big spanner and ask you to hold one of them, which one will you choose? A nanosecond before they touch the skin on your hand they're both the same temperature, 220deg C.
 
Incidentally, I just wanted to mention again MarineDeck 2000, which is the cork-particles based fake-teak deck product. I have this in my tender as does anyone with a novurania that has factory fake-teak decks. I don't love the look of it, but I don't hate it either. It has immense grip when wet and is v cool even if left in the Med sun, because it has minimal heat capacity, so it's perfect for a tender and it would be my #1 choice in future for any tender. Pic below...
novurania%20-%204.jpg


Anyway, to get to my point, I was meandering round youtube and saw the first example I'm aware of big boats using it on the mothership. These were both Amers - far from my favourites where fit out and build quality is concerned in the 90-120 foot sector, but not terrible Anyway, the cork decks seem not to look too bad, and has white caulk to boot :encouragement. Each to their own, and see what you think. I don't think I would choose it for the mothership but it isn't terrible and for sure it is the best fake product for not burning your or your children's feet. MapisM's mate Maurizio will entertain you anyway :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecD8XhxyMaU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ7Bl5ohv1w
 
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