Teak Replacement

Hurricane I have the marinedeck2000 on my rib (Dutch, I thought), exactly same as yours apart from caulk colour. It is the perfect product for that job because it is grippy when wet and it feels cool even in the Med afternoon sun. But as you know it just doesn't look good enough on mothership. I don't share mapism's view about mothership decks and I prefer teak to Kiwigrip paint. Also on a recent ish big boat kiwigrip would destroy literally hundreds of thousands of euros in resale value. It would be cheaper to employ more stewardesses to dance around fanning the teak decks cool.
 
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NGM said:
Your example is very specific and wouldn't reflect a true teak v GRP comparison.
Into the poll you should throw in boats like the new Riva Rivale, I wonder how that would look with GRP decks !
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Why do you think that the above pics aren't a fair comparison? We are now strictly talking of aesthetic, remember.

I have no clue about how a Rivale would look like with no teak, obviously.
Possibly worse, but she's one of not many boats designed from the very beginning in that way, surely with a bit of nostalgia marketing in mind.
Otoh, after the wooden era, when obviously boats were BUILT (as opposed to decorated) with teak decks, several iconic Rivas had bare GRP decks.
Just off the top of my head, I can think of Acquarius, Bahamas, Turborosso, St.Tropez... and also several f/b models like the Superamerica, Corsaro, Furama, Aquastar.
Besides, good luck trying to argue with Portofino that the typical Itama GRP decks are ugly!

That said, of course I don't pretend that the above with/without teak pics of my boat are representative of each and every boat on the planet.
But a 56' planing flybridge, with overall rather classic lines, surely ain't such a rare bird either.
There are several boats here in the asylum whose design is much more similar to her than to a Rivale.
Just to mention a few forum boats, the Princess 57, Squadron 58, Ferretti 165, Azimut 55 are all somewhat similar.
And also considering some smaller and larger sizes, (e.g. Phantom 43, Ferretti 150, Ferretti 630, Princess 67 - and I'm surely forgetting many others), it's not like the overall design is radically different.

Anyhow, obviously no poll on earth could establish an absolute truth on this or any other aesthetic matter.
I just replied to Hurricane because he agreed with my thoughts with a "but" on aesthetic, just because I don't think that such "but" is so clear cut.
But I also said each to their own, didn't I...? :rolleyes:

All considered, I guess I'll post the poll, 'cause you made me curious! :D
 
jfm said:
I don't share mapism's view about mothership decks
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LOL, you already know that I didn't expect you to! :D

But I honestly think that you are wrong with respect to resale value, and this ain't as subjective as aesthetic- let me try to explain why.
First of all, let's get rid of the scenario where the same bunch of stewardesses in charge of fanning the teak cool are also able to keep a teak deck in perfect conditions forever.
That's wishful thinking, because no matter how good and thick the teak is, wearing it out is just a matter of when, rather than if.
And let's assume to talk of a boat which just reached that point.

Now, as you know, in a GRP boat whose decks were factory covered with teak, there's simply no way to bring them back to the original gelcoat diamond pattern.
So, for any potential buyer who doesn't want teak, it's not a matter of KiwiGrip or any other type of finishing - that's just a red herring.
If a punter wants a deck with the plain vanilla diamond pattern, he must look for another boat which wasn't originally built with teak deck, plain and simple.
For such boaters (and trust me, I know several of them), the value distruction began the very moment the boat came out with teak from the builder.

We are therefore left with potential buyers, like yourself, who prefer teak decks.
Mind, I'm well aware that there's plenty of boaters also in this category, and there's absolutely no intent to diminish this segment of the market when I say "left with".
For these folks, buying a boat in need of teak replacement simply means considering that there's some money to spend.
Now, to do the job I did, they had to remove the old teak, sand, fill and re-sand the whole bare GRP surface underneath, then treat it all with epoxy resin, re-re-sand it, paint it, and eventually mask and lay the antiskid.
In a "normal" teak replacement, no carpenter on earth would have gone that far in the deck preparation, before deploying the new teak. Removing the old one and sticking the new one above the GRP deck using plenty of Sika is more like it.
So, what boat would you rather buy, the one with old teak worn out to be removed, or the one with a perfect surface ready for the new job...? :)

Btw, aside from this scenario where the best alternative is very obvious for any buyer, I'm not sure I would prefer even a third theoretical boat with the teak just rebuilt.
I mean, yes, of course the first impression between my boat and one with the teak just rebuilt is that with mine there's some money to spend, as opposed to none with the other.
But having seen how a deck originally covered with teak looks like after stripping it, and knowing how mine was treated, I would be much happier to know that the new teak is going to be deployed above a solid and smooth deck, perfectly sealed.
 
jfm said:
It would be cheaper to employ more stewardesses to dance around fanning the teak decks cool.
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Especially now the market is going to be flooded with unemployed grid girls/walk-on darts girls etc who will be fully trained in the arts of holding up umbrellas and waving placards. Might need to organise a swift refresher on footwear as 5" heels will play havoc with the teak. :encouragement:
 
benjenbav said:
Especially now the market is going to be flooded with unemployed grid girls/walk-on darts girls etc who will be fully trained in the arts of holding up umbrellas and waving placards. Might need to organise a swift refresher on footwear as 5" heels will play havoc with the teak. :encouragement:
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I think you will find Russian boat owners already do that type of thing .
The difference is there “ girls “ they hire come with benefits :)

Not sure PeteM could compete in that area ?
 
Hurricane said:
However, this is the new version of Flexiteak that is supposed to be cooler than the original versions.
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Not sure that just "less worse" will help. I've got Flexiteek a swim platform from 2005 and while it's held up well, and hides a lot of dirt, it's wretchedly hot. I've got pretty tough soles on my feet but even I find it impossible to walk on it barefoot if more than an hour's Sun has been on it in the Summer. I'd steer well clear of it, no matter how much they want to claim it's "better now".
 
Piers said:
Can you let us know the bottom line costs between real and Flexi?
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Difficult question to answer
There are lots of variables.
The simple answer is Flexiteak is £300 + VAT per sq metre but that doesn"t include the removal of the old or the prep.
I believe that real teak is about the same price - maybe a bit cheaper
 
wkearney99 said:
Not sure that just "less worse" will help. I've got Flexiteek a swim platform from 2005 and while it's held up well, and hides a lot of dirt, it's wretchedly hot. I've got pretty tough soles on my feet but even I find it impossible to walk on it barefoot if more than an hour's Sun has been on it in the Summer. I'd steer well clear of it, no matter how much they want to claim it's "better now".
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Hear hear. My brother had one deck in "original" plastic and one in "cool" plastic on his last boat and it made little difference. Both decks were dangerously hot in med sun and he would never spec the stuff again.
 
Hurricane said:
The simple answer is Flexiteak is £300 + VAT per sq metre but that doesn"t include the removal of the old or the prep.
I believe that real teak is about the same price - maybe a bit cheaper
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Removal of old stuff is exactly the same job regardless.
Actually, the removal job is harder (because it has to be more accurate) only if you are going to put nothing on the deck afterwards - i.e. leave it to bare GRP, as I did with my DP.

Ref. teak costs, yes, it could be a bit cheaper, depending mostly on teak thickness but also on the type of job (pre-cut panels vs. single planks).
But even if my first recommendation (for GRP decks - wooden or steel boats are a different story) will always be, without a shadow of a doubt, to consider a worn out teak deck as an opportunity to get rid of the diabolic stuff completely, I would strongly recommend to anyone who can't live without teak to spend MORE than £300/sqm. In fact, that's not enough to get 10mm seasoned and good quality teak, directly glued to the deck with single planks, one at a time, with no panels underneath - which is the only kosher (and durable!) way of doing that.
 
MapisM said:
In fact, that's not enough to get 10mm seasoned and good quality teak, directly glued to the deck with single planks, one at a time, with no panels underneath - which is the only kosher (and durable!) way of doing that.
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that's exactly what I want to do on my aft deck (ONLY but not this year...)
Teak was well seasoned when I bought it 5yrs ago and it's at my carpenter's place waiting ever since!
Caulking is an issue, I'm planning to do what I did in the heads flooring (rope and then 4X5mm approx caulking)

V.
 
MapisM said:
Removal of old stuff is exactly the same job regardless.
Actually, the removal job is harder (because it has to be more accurate) only if you are going to put nothing on the deck afterwards - i.e. leave it to bare GRP, as I did with my DP.

Ref. teak costs, yes, it could be a bit cheaper, depending mostly on teak thickness but also on the type of job (pre-cut panels vs. single planks).
But even if my first recommendation (for GRP decks - wooden or steel boats are a different story) will always be, without a shadow of a doubt, to consider a worn out teak deck as an opportunity to get rid of the diabolic stuff completely, I would strongly recommend to anyone who can't live without teak to spend MORE than £300/sqm. In fact, that's not enough to get 10mm seasoned and good quality teak, directly glued to the deck with single planks, one at a time, with no panels underneath - which is the only kosher (and durable!) way of doing that.
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Mapism, small point, but you can have pre-made teak deck sheets without any plywood or similar panel material underneath, if you want. You dont have to have each plank laid individually by the boat builder to get a clean "panel free" job. That's how mine are made. No big deal; just saying.
 
Agreed, but I never came across a good carpenter using that method for a retrofit job, because it's necessary to have a perfect jig to do that.
Worth doing for a boatbuilder who is going to do the same job for several boats of course, but not for one-off rebuilds, afaik.
 
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vas said:
Teak was well seasoned when I bought it 5yrs ago and it's at my carpenter's place waiting ever since!
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That's the connoisseur way of preparing the job, well done! :encouragement:
Back in the days, that's the reason why you could see a LOT of teak planks at any time, in the backyard of any wooden boat builder.
...talk about immobilized capital! :eek:
 
Piers said:
Can you let us know the bottom line costs between real and Flexi?
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I might be able to help with a like for like teak vs flexiteek quote. I had both quoted for the superhawk bathing platform. I will see if I can find them.

I have opted for flexiteek G2 because it was a bit cheaper but mostly because it will wear much better. I emit that I am concerned about the temp issue, but it’s just on the bathing platform (the cockpit is the real deal) and on my boat the platform is always pretty wet so I don’t see it as becoming a big issue. I will report back in due course !
 
MapisM said:
Agreed, but I never came across a good carpenter using that method for a retrofit job, because it's necessary to have a perfect jig to do that.
Worth doing for a boatbuilder who is going to do the same job for several boats of course, but not for one-off rebuilds, afaik.
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Wattsons in the UK will do this for you: they made a teak sheet for my one-off bathing platform. I templated it (using polystyrene sheet); and in return they sent me two deck panels (one for a hatch). Perfect fit.
 
MapisM said:
Agreed, but I never came across a good carpenter using that method for a retrofit job, because it's necessary to have a perfect jig to do that.
Worth doing for a boatbuilder who is going to do the same job for several boats of course, but not for one-off rebuilds, afaik.
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Properly good carpenter would use a simple digital templater these days to create a CAD file in minutes
https://www.prodim-systems.com/en-en/video-marine-yacht-teak-deck-digital-templating.zhtml
 
jfm said:
Properly good carpenter would use a simple digital templater these days to create a CAD file in minutes
https://www.prodim-systems.com/en-en/video-marine-yacht-teak-deck-digital-templating.zhtml
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LOL, your good carpenters must be much younger than mine, I reckon. :D
I met several of them during almost two decades of wooden boat ownership, but the two absolute best I came across, who can claim 35+ years of experience each, pretty sure would consider the technique shown in that video as a sort of practical joke.
Mind, I'm not saying it is, but I'm pretty sure that this is what they would think of it.
And by "absolute best", I mean real artists.
I've seen some boats whose deck was rebuilt by them: S/skr, Ferretti, Canados, Linssen, Grand Banks to name but a few, plus sailboats - among which I remember a stunning Hallberg-Rassy, whose deck was (obviously) much more tricky than any mobo.
And trust me, their job was superior to the OEM one in so many details that a comparison is not even funny.
100% made on-site, one plank at a time, of course.
 
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