BrianH
Active member
The clue is, "relatively recently", which depends on one's subjective sense of history. I'm relatively ancient, so can be excused for looking at things long term, where eight years is yesterday.
Teak decks. HR finally admits it got it wrong!
- Thread starter Twister_Ken
- Start date
BrianH
Active member
That's Turkey, theoretically, such a path (new Burmese teak deck) is not possible in the EU, which has a boycott on wood from Burma, for very good reasons.
Guitarrich
Member
Quite right Barnacle. I haven't gone deeply into the rights and wrongs of Burmese teak, but am prepared to take the word of those who have. However neither can I condemn those around us who HAVE replaced their decks. If we had the money, and if we were planning to keep the boat beyond our sabbatical then I'd have been hard pushed to let principles get in the way.
My 17 year old self would be screaming abuse at this abdication of responsibility.
mobeydick
Member
I think everybody here (apart from Guitarrich) must sail in shoes/boots?
The best things about a teak deck (apart from looks) are the feel underfoot, and the smooth non-slippiness. Try walking barefoot on teak and then 'non-slip' decks and compare.
Even in boots, the teak seems to provide a better grip.
Also, the teak does not get as hot underfoot in the sun as plastic.
MD
The best things about a teak deck (apart from looks) are the feel underfoot, and the smooth non-slippiness. Try walking barefoot on teak and then 'non-slip' decks and compare.
Even in boots, the teak seems to provide a better grip.
Also, the teak does not get as hot underfoot in the sun as plastic.
MD
VO5
New member
BrianH
Active member
I hope that your 17 year old self would win, Guitarrich, the loss of the planet's forests is a major problem and the useless cladding of a plastic deck with a ponderous wood too high for sensible stability, is one of the silliest applications of such a valuable resource.
If you have the stamina, a relevant thread I also contributed to on the subject of teak and illegal logging is here.
BrianH
Active member
The firm grip is indeed the advantage of a wooden deck, both when wet or dry. But I cannot agree with your last sentence - not for where I sail.
The Mediterranean sun can boil an egg - or fry one on my teak deck. I like to go barefoot on board but it is quite impossible to go on deck when the sun is shining, running across hot coals has nothing on my performance if I forget to put on some deck shoes. The cabin top in comparison, which is the natural HR ivory GRP, is quite cool and with the inlaid diamond pattern for grip, easy to walk on. I wish the deck was the same composition.
Last summer in the Adriatic was one of extremes. During the hottest period it was 40 degrees C in the cabin at 16:00 each day (okay, the hottest was 39.8), and I could feel the heat radiating from the lockers under the side deck where the teak was while nothing to notice came from the cabin ceiling. The deck is sandwich GRP with a closed cell foam inner under the 10mm solid teak planking - quite a good insulator I would have thought.
Guitarrich
Member
Hot Hot Hot
Yes we found the same re last summer's heat. I eventually bought some tomato netting - ugly as sin but what a relief. There were some unpleasantly hot nights where even with two Hella's buzzing the heat was relentless.
Mustn't grumble though. We are really very lucky to be there at all.
Yes we found the same re last summer's heat. I eventually bought some tomato netting - ugly as sin but what a relief. There were some unpleasantly hot nights where even with two Hella's buzzing the heat was relentless.
Mustn't grumble though. We are really very lucky to be there at all.
Guitarrich
Member
Well I'm now a lot more informed about teak thanks Barnacle. We must strive to do the RIGHT thing always, and informed decisions are better than those based on predjudice or ignorance.
Ethics aside, I think this thread has demonstrated that everyone is enjoying their democratic right to choose what sort of deck they want, and argument about it beyond airing personal preferences is pointless!
Good and interesting thread. Thanks everyone.
auditdata
Member
I don't need a car that does 115mph
I don't need an ensuite bathroom
I don't need a designer logo on my jeans
I don't need a an lcd flat screen TV
I don't need to feed 2 cats
I don't need a sky subscription
I don't need an iphone
I don't need a yacht
I don't need a teak deck. But I have one just like 6 of the above.
And as to the prices quoted for replacement on this post come to the provinces of the UK and enjoy.......
Clive
I don't need an ensuite bathroom
I don't need a designer logo on my jeans
I don't need a an lcd flat screen TV
I don't need to feed 2 cats
I don't need a sky subscription
I don't need an iphone
I don't need a yacht
I don't need a teak deck. But I have one just like 6 of the above.
And as to the prices quoted for replacement on this post come to the provinces of the UK and enjoy.......
Clive
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
As the OP may I say this didn't start out as an anti-teak polemic, just a criticism of HR for having done teak decks less than optimally for many years. Glad they've seen the light - new owners will be even gladder.
Last edited:
pvb
Well-known member
BrianH
Active member
Why pick on HR to castigate in the thread header? Other builders of the era fitting true teak planking, rather than teak-faced ply or laminate, screwed it down, it was then the recognised way to secure the thicker planks to a GRP deck. As I pointed out, at least they tried to stop the insanity of drilling thousands of holes in a strong and watertight deck but the customers wanted otherwise. And as we all know, the customer is always right.
Kudos to HR if they have since adopted another way - that's progress.
Perhaps HR is to become another bête noire for Scuttlebutters, along with Bavaria.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Dunno what Malo, Najad, etc have done or are doing. Only know about HR coz I got within a short distance of buying one. HR could have stopped screwing years ago.
Robin
Well-known member
Walking up the big boat pontoons at the club yesterday there were several new/newish HRs, Najads & Malos, plus a Bowman 42, Oyster 406 a near new Hylas and a newish Dufour 425. Only the Dufour 425 had glued teak decks, all the rest were screwed and one of the newish HRs already had a few partly popped plugs. Of the mobos, there was a Windy and a Hardy, both with glued down teak decks. Most of the teak decks were covered in green algae too whereas the grp decks were not.
Pleiades
Member
Talking teak rot
Felt compelled to balance those whose abhorrence of teak decks is a bit ott imho after admiring the 12 year old immaculate teak decks on a friend's boat - as good as the day they were laid, and then had a look at my own 13 year old teak decks which despite being largely unmaintained other than by a slosh with salt water - usually on passage are still going strong. My boat is in South coast UK so not the Med or anywhere baking hot, but no leaks, no lifting, no cracks, in fact nothing adverse to report, just years of being lovely to lounge on, grippy in bad weather and nice to look at.
My previous boats had all grp decks - covered with Treadmaster in places and I have been on similar boats to mine with grp/Treadmaster decks. I know which I prefer. Teak decks are popular because they work well. Treadmaster is horrible to walk on barefoot or sit on without armoured trousers. Grp without treadmaster is a rubbish material for a deck - lightly drop an anchor or an outboard on it and it is cracked or marked forever - teak can take such little knocks without compalint. On my previous boat the extensive Treadmaster was forever going green at the edges and shedding plastic particles and my current treadmaster patches on the dog house retain black muck in the grooves which cannot be scrubbed out. Those that refuse to look at a grp boat with teak decks may well miss out on some fantastic boats. When one buys any second hand boat one should look ahead at all future maintainence costs and factor that into the price you want to pay. Replacing a teak deck will be expensive - but in the scheme of things on a £100,000 boat or even a £1000 boat you should I suggest work out what needs doing and what you are will be prepared to pay with an open mind rather than automatically avoiding teak decks. When the time comes to replace mine, I might look at plastic simulated teak but I don't have much evidence of how well it works over time and wood is simply good. Plastic boats can have character and all my plastic boats have been much improved by the addition of teak or other hardwoods here and there. So a big thumbs up for making best possible use of trees.
Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
Felt compelled to balance those whose abhorrence of teak decks is a bit ott imho after admiring the 12 year old immaculate teak decks on a friend's boat - as good as the day they were laid, and then had a look at my own 13 year old teak decks which despite being largely unmaintained other than by a slosh with salt water - usually on passage are still going strong. My boat is in South coast UK so not the Med or anywhere baking hot, but no leaks, no lifting, no cracks, in fact nothing adverse to report, just years of being lovely to lounge on, grippy in bad weather and nice to look at.
My previous boats had all grp decks - covered with Treadmaster in places and I have been on similar boats to mine with grp/Treadmaster decks. I know which I prefer. Teak decks are popular because they work well. Treadmaster is horrible to walk on barefoot or sit on without armoured trousers. Grp without treadmaster is a rubbish material for a deck - lightly drop an anchor or an outboard on it and it is cracked or marked forever - teak can take such little knocks without compalint. On my previous boat the extensive Treadmaster was forever going green at the edges and shedding plastic particles and my current treadmaster patches on the dog house retain black muck in the grooves which cannot be scrubbed out. Those that refuse to look at a grp boat with teak decks may well miss out on some fantastic boats. When one buys any second hand boat one should look ahead at all future maintainence costs and factor that into the price you want to pay. Replacing a teak deck will be expensive - but in the scheme of things on a £100,000 boat or even a £1000 boat you should I suggest work out what needs doing and what you are will be prepared to pay with an open mind rather than automatically avoiding teak decks. When the time comes to replace mine, I might look at plastic simulated teak but I don't have much evidence of how well it works over time and wood is simply good. Plastic boats can have character and all my plastic boats have been much improved by the addition of teak or other hardwoods here and there. So a big thumbs up for making best possible use of trees.
Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
Blueboatman
Well-known member
I have heard-anyone like to confirm or refute ? -that certain of the Salar 40s, which had really thick 'proper' teak deck planks over grp, were actually screwed from underneath ! Imagine when that little lot starts to wear..
Having enjoyed both unadorned and wood clad,, I remain firmly and currently in the pro teak deck camp. A splosh of bleach and water with a sponge and hey presto, good for the whole summer. In a few years, out will come the chisels and sanders and epoxy and I shall, I expect, revert to AWB status. Again, so what ? You could say that I am going to enjoy the best of both arguments !
Having enjoyed both unadorned and wood clad,, I remain firmly and currently in the pro teak deck camp. A splosh of bleach and water with a sponge and hey presto, good for the whole summer. In a few years, out will come the chisels and sanders and epoxy and I shall, I expect, revert to AWB status. Again, so what ? You could say that I am going to enjoy the best of both arguments !
Tradewinds
Well-known member
I'm with you on this.
My Nic39 was sold plain or with optional teak decks. My decks are teak & don't leak & when it gets beyond the point of no return (still a few years yet I reckon) off it will come (by my hand) & be made good as a plain deck. There's no need to spend 10's of thousands on a replacement teak deck as it was only cosmetic on my boat in the first place (& very nice it is too!).
Robin
Well-known member
Eleven years ago the cost to replace the teak decks on a Westerly Oceanlord 41 we were considering buying was £25,000, but with inflation that figure would now be what £30,000? So let's factor that cost into the 'maintenance' budget, that would mean if the decks were replaced at 20 years (not the 15 years as on the boat I mentioned), the cost over 20 years would work out at £1,500 per year. Sadly however it is rarely the original owner that pays, it is the poor sucker who buys the boat secondhand that gets saddled with a big bill. Again in the case I mentioned, the cost of replacing the teak deck eleven years ago was £25,000, the boat was for sale having just had that done for £85,000 so perhaps that puts the thing into perspective.
As I said in an earlier reply, we are currently boat hunting and 80% of the type of boats we are looking at have teak decks and are at or approaching the age at which they will need expensive replacement. I know this because most of the other 20% have already had theirs done and because moisture was getting into the deck core materials, not just done for cosmetic reasons.
So, what would you advise in our case, look at the boats still with the ticking timebomb teak in place or look at the ones where the teak had been removed and professionally replaced with grp non slip? Yep, got it in one! Sadly that leaves many of those teak decked boats that are for sale languishing on the brokers books and in our case there are lots of those on the market still after 2 years that we know of. Some get as far as a survey and are either dropped or end up being sold at a very much lower price to compensate.
Sorry, but as a potential buyer of a 45-50ft live aboard boat, I rate teak decks as being a worse problem than osmosis and far more likely to be a deal breaker.
Sybarite
Well-known member
Perhaps an Amel is the answer after all....?