Teaching a beginner

[Twister_Ken]

OK you lot. Here's the situation.

A friend that I've known for a very long time has declared that she'd like to learn to sail, and asks if I can suggest a good sailing school. Of course I can, but should I? Or should I say "Don't bother with all that, come out with us and we'll teach you." Don't doubt my ability to do such, but what would be best for her? A structured course with people who are used to teaching and maybe a £1000 out of pocket if she goes up the chain from competent crew to dazed kipper, or bags of bumbling around with me (and a whole lot more tiller time)? Or of course, a bit of both?

Anyone been there & got the tee-shirt?
<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[Mirelle]

How about a good book* first? It will leave plenty of change from the sailing school fees, and she will get the practical with you.

Where the sailing school will score is that they will teach in fairly stable dinghies, like Wayfarers. If that is not a vital part of the process, she will do OK with you I think.

*or ten.

<hr width=100% size=1>Que scais-je?

 

[poter]

To be honest there is absolutly no substitute for practice.........books are good but she will always be better off with a tiller & the wind & sea.
One other point, I assume you don't teach as a job, then in my experience nothing is quite so rewarding & you also get a big benifit, in that you will also have to brush up on your basic skills & not rely on the shortcuts that we all take, including lots of saftey skills that we all take for granted.

My opinion Ken... go for it you will both benifit.

poter.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[qsiv]

Ahving both taught (to senior instructor level), and competed ...

I would say that the absence of stress sailing with someone she knows (providing there IS an absence of stress) should be beneficial, the absence of other neophytes could be less so (just think of the cameraderie that builds in a group of beginner skiers).

The bigger issue, I feel, is the boat. I am absolutely sure that in general terms smaller is better (at least down to Wayfarer sort of size for adults). The pupil doesnt want to be excessively scared of capsizing - but needs to feel what happens when sheets aren't tended properly. It is equally difficult to 'feel' what is happening with bigger heavier boats, and when things go astray (let's say pinching), the feedback is much slower, and the result of corrective action slow to take effect. Bit like starting a learner driver in a 40 tonne artic I guess.

Given your haunts, at the very least I'd try and borrow an X, or a Squib if dinghies are too frightening for her. OTOH if she wer to go to a school she'd be likely to start in a dinghy anyway.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[kingfisher]

Here's what we do at the sail trainings of the sea-scouts:
1. Get them on the water as much as possible, wheneve possible.
2. 1 instructor per three students max
3. Explain, Show, Let them do it
4. Don't start them of on 5 bft. Go with an easy 3bft and work up from there. Too little wind isn't good as well: no feedback.
5. A little theory is essential.
6.
Day one: sails and course
Day two: tacking
Day three: gybing and berthing
Day four: MoB
Day five: exam

I do believe that you need to start of in dinghys, because a big boat doesn't provide the feedback to learn in a natural way.

And yes, we manage to explain Angle of Attack, form stability and VMG to 12 year olds. I always wonder what their maths or physics teacher would think of that. BUt then again, we explain it, showing its direct practical application. Hmmm you think formal education has got it wrong?

<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[Guest]

Worthwhile for both

It certainly helps to 'sharpen' your own knowledge and skill .... so I would go for the personal touch. Nothing like setting off and then handing her the tiller ...... keeping a 'quiet eye' on things and guiding her along ...... I've done it with many and it works .....

Once she's had a few outings .... what about competent crew course with local School ? Gives a good basic grounding to build on the outings you have given ..... maybe she comes back and shows you where your wrong !!!! But nicely of course !!!!

My ex went on a dinghy course and loved the wayfarer ... but actually didn't do much for her knowledge on the bigger boat ..... lord knows why not ... but true. So I would advise a competent crew course on a bigger boat .... AFTER the sails around the solent with you ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[tcm]

Depends on how much sailing they have done, imho. If they are totally green, then I would take her out first yourself, and perhaps go no further than the mouth of soton water. Just an hour or two tops. My reason for saying this is that if she books a course, then (almost) regardless of the weather they just HAVE to go out for the whole day - and that first trip is very important. To start, with no knowledge or experience, all they have is their time and their enthusiasm, and the enthusiasm is what takes them through the tough bits. I believe that the enthusiasm is delightful yet fragile to start.

Of course, if she has been on a nice sunny sailing hol somewhere nice like greece or the caribbean, then you should hand over to jimi, who (one way or another) has dedicated his life to reducing the sailing population by ramming others as well as repeated attempts to eliminate invited crew by asphixiation with methane, alcohol poisoning, drowning at sea and even arranging airborne assaults by helicopters. We should both congratulate ourselves that we survived the experience, and i can't really think of a better way of testing a newbie's determination to go sailing.





<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Evadne]

I can't speak from experience, my wife just wants to go sailing with me, not to learn how to sail. Any advice on how to persuade her to learn a bit more of the theory?

But on your question, why should your friend restrict herself to one method? Between now and the spring is a good time to start on a theory course, a week at a sailing school should be able to offer the practical basics but as the others say there's no substitute for experience, so coming out to sail with friends in the summer would complement that without breaking the bank. In my opinion it would also give her a more balanced view of real sailing than a series of sailing school courses, i.e. short-handed sailing, not having a man overboard every hour, handling different types of boat etc., etc.. You might have to do some background reading in order to field the questions when you stray from the seaschool method, though.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Aeolus_IV]

Have to agree with TCM on the school having to go out - this is how my wife was very nearly totally put off sailing at step one. It took hours and hours of patience and careful sailing to correct the damage done at the start. These days there are no signs of her original fears and she's up for sailing in anything sensible - which I can't argue with! With respect to big v small boats in our case big is best - when there is no risk of the boat tipping you in there is less stress, but yes it takes more effort to show why something is right or wrong.

Regards, Jeff.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[devinek]

As a relative novice sailor I’ll give you my take on the learning process as I’ve seen it so far. I started out by sailing for a few days with a friend. He could sail, but couldn’t teach, so I was all at sea (so to speak) and didn’t have a clue what was going on. Then I went on a Comp Crew course, and loved it. It gave me a good grounding in the basics, and filled me with enthusiasm to learn more. So I’d say that was a good place for me to start. However, if you think you could spark that enthusiasm in your pupil, then go for it.

What I need now is exactly what you are offering your friend. The chance to sail more and gain experience. Whilst I plan to do a Day Skipper course next year, there is only so much you can learn in a week at a sail school, and I think it’s important to mix this with lots of hands on experience.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jimi]

Bog off .. I'm hurt and offended at the imputation of negligence, its really innate homicidal mania! How the hell did you know about the helicopter? That was last year when off Anvil Point and the CG helicopter wanted to practice landing a man on us, unfortunately we had to abort when a motor boat decided he wanted to witness the proceedings at close range ... like the middle of my port side .. so we had to take avoiding action.
Personally I'd recommend that the young lady does a sailing course cos I've seen you sailing and you're a complete incompetent.

Seriously though, a sailing course gives
1) 5 days of structured instruction
2) a chance to meet other sailors
3) chance to practise things in a boat you don't really care if you ding!


<hr width=100% size=1>.. when's that again, but ..

 

[Magic_Sailor]

Defiinitely a bit of both.

Magic

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://hometown.aol.co.uk/geoffwestgarth/myhomepage/travelwriting.html>Click for website!</A>

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: mmmmm

i fear if you take her aboard indigo you will seize the opportunity to induct her into the twister ways. you will spend your time pointing out every AWB up and down Soton water pointing out its faults so the poor girl will be too scared to set foot aboard one for fear of it sinking capsizing or simply breaking up.
on a more serious note i would take her out a few tijmes so she does not waste her money oi n something she may not like
then pack her off to do comp crew under the professionals.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[Sybarite]

First of all sailing is dead simple. In half an hour the person should be able to know how to helm, tack and gybe. That is the essential. Get her to do this and straight away she should be enjoying her sailing.

Once this is the case and only then she will have the appetite to learn the rest. That should take the rest of the day.

Why do courses take longer?


John

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[milltech]

The answer only depends on your motives.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[Guest]

Hang on - he\'s talking FEMALE

A bloke maybe ..... but a woman ???? in half an hour ?????


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif

 

[FullCircle]

Re: Hang on - he\'s talking FEMALE

My partner Lynn is also new to sailing, and that is why I bought the Jouet 680 cheap. At 22 ft and living in the Crouch and the East Coast, it is small enough not to intimidate, and large enought to go way for training weekends and instruction. I will always be there to help her learn, and she is very interested. We are supplementing that with Sailing school weekends next year to affirm all she has learned and to correct any of my errors.
She has a good sense of seamanship already, so is a fast learner. She also bought and ingested (in remarkable time) some books like 'Sailing for Dummies'.
I think a good mix will be best.

Jim & Lynn

<hr width=100% size=1>Second Chance - First Love. Hasn't anybody else got a little Jouet? I feel lonely!

 

[themount2]

And if you add a section on "Understanding Written Scots" to Jimi's list, she will be able to join the Forum and learn a lot more. Possibly lots more than most of us are able to sometimes!!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Sybarite]

Re: Hang on - he\'s talking FEMALE

Do you hang about with blondes?

John

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: mmmmm

ohh ... maybe not ... as she clambers out the loo (which even a cat couldn't get a decent poo in) he'll be saying something like "ah, well, modern boats like that one over there (points to awb) have much bigger loos" ...

.... and having singed her eyebrows off once or twice lighting the paraffin/meths stove to make a cuppa he'll be saying "ah, well, see that (points to awb) etc etc etc "

and if she stays onboard overnight ... well ....

<hr width=100% size=1>